Not Reporting Your Grades for PLIP Loyola

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Not Reporting Your Grades for PLIP Loyola

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 15, 2017 9:11 pm

First semester grades were pretty terrible (below a 3.0 and well below median) for a bunch of reasons that don't really matter for this post, but I'm thinking about not reporting them for PLIP. For anyone unfamiliar, PLIP is an OCI for people interested in IP at Loyola Chicago this summer. I view it this way: if I report my grades I won't get a single interview. But if I don't report them, they most likely think I am hiding my grades for a reason, but may possibly still extend an interview. All I need is one interview. Sure, I might get rejected as soon as I hand them my grades in person, but it is further in the process than the former option.

The only reason why I would even consider this is because I did a similar strategy to get my 1L summer gig at a decent firm in a major market. They only saw my grades after my interview, and the interview went well enough to override my shitty grades. The only difference is that it was plausible for me not to even have my first semester grades when interviewing for the 1L firm job, while for Loyola I obviously have my grades.

And if anyone thinks that reporting my grades is a must, what should my bidding strategy be then? I'll obviously focus on firms that don't have grade cut-offs, but is there anything else to consider? Thanks

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Re: Not Reporting Your Grades for PLIP Loyola

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 15, 2017 9:42 pm

Also somewhat sensitive to this issue (below median IP type), and after speaking with career services on the problem, they said your best bet is to research heavily for the firms that do the type of IP you want to do (if you're not a biochem Ph.D, cross off firms that do primarily that type of work sort of thing), and keep an open dialogue with OCS for CB data from your OCI on which firms aren't as grade sensitive.

I don't think it'll be killer to leave your GPA off unless they explicitly ask for it on symplicity, so this is probably an appropriate strategic decision. IME (and likely yours as well), IP firms were looking for technical backgrounds more than they were strong law school grades. So provided you have a good technical background, which I'm assuming you do since you got a 1L SA despite poor grades, specialize within firms to the extent you can, and definitely bid less grade sensitive firms in areas where you can show ties or a reason to be there.

We're fighting slightly uphill battles, but if you're smart about your strategy in targeting markets/firms that fit with your resume, you shouldn't lose out entirely on bids at Loyola. Just use those 32 bids as wisely as you can surmise.

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Re: Not Reporting Your Grades for PLIP Loyola

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 15, 2017 9:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Also somewhat sensitive to this issue (below median IP type), and after speaking with career services on the problem, they said your best bet is to research heavily for the firms that do the type of IP you want to do (if you're not a biochem Ph.D, cross off firms that do primarily that type of work sort of thing), and keep an open dialogue with OCS for CB data from your OCI on which firms aren't as grade sensitive.

I don't think it'll be killer to leave your GPA off unless they explicitly ask for it on symplicity, so this is probably an appropriate strategic decision. IME (and likely yours as well), IP firms were looking for technical backgrounds more than they were strong law school grades. So provided you have a good technical background, which I'm assuming you do since you got a 1L SA despite poor grades, specialize within firms to the extent you can, and definitely bid less grade sensitive firms in areas where you can show ties or a reason to be there.

We're fighting slightly uphill battles, but if you're smart about your strategy in targeting markets/firms that fit with your resume, you shouldn't lose out entirely on bids at Loyola. Just use those 32 bids as wisely as you can surmise.


OP here. It's easy to simply forgo writing my gpa on my resume, but the real issue is that they ask for an unofficial transcript on symplicity. So the best I can do is submit an unofficial transcript and write something like "N/A" or something similar under the column that would normally say my grades. Not an ideal option and potentially unprofessional, but it's not lying or unethical; after all it is an unofficial transcript. As you touched on, it just makes more sense for people interested in IP to convey their technical background as opposed to arbitrary law school grades. At the same time, I can do half my bids with my grades, and half without. Not sure if that is too beneficial but it might be a nice little experiment.

Bluem_11

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Re: Not Reporting Your Grades for PLIP Loyola

Postby Bluem_11 » Mon May 15, 2017 9:59 pm

You're likely SOL if trying to hit biglaw or any type of litigator role. Whether you leave grades on or off, you're not fooling anyone.

Pros are much more lenient on that. I remember once interview I did at PLIP at a SF/SV pros shop that said "we couldn't care less about law school/legal skills just tell me what you know about circuits". Anecdotal there, but indicative on my experience in the industry as a whole.

So yes target your resume, specifically your undergrad degree. Target ties.

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Re: Not Reporting Your Grades for PLIP Loyola

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 15, 2017 10:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Also somewhat sensitive to this issue (below median IP type), and after speaking with career services on the problem, they said your best bet is to research heavily for the firms that do the type of IP you want to do (if you're not a biochem Ph.D, cross off firms that do primarily that type of work sort of thing), and keep an open dialogue with OCS for CB data from your OCI on which firms aren't as grade sensitive.

I don't think it'll be killer to leave your GPA off unless they explicitly ask for it on symplicity, so this is probably an appropriate strategic decision. IME (and likely yours as well), IP firms were looking for technical backgrounds more than they were strong law school grades. So provided you have a good technical background, which I'm assuming you do since you got a 1L SA despite poor grades, specialize within firms to the extent you can, and definitely bid less grade sensitive firms in areas where you can show ties or a reason to be there.

We're fighting slightly uphill battles, but if you're smart about your strategy in targeting markets/firms that fit with your resume, you shouldn't lose out entirely on bids at Loyola. Just use those 32 bids as wisely as you can surmise.


OP here. It's easy to simply forgo writing my gpa on my resume, but the real issue is that they ask for an unofficial transcript on symplicity. So the best I can do is submit an unofficial transcript and write something like "N/A" or something similar under the column that would normally say my grades. Not an ideal option and potentially unprofessional, but it's not lying or unethical; after all it is an unofficial transcript. As you touched on, it just makes more sense for people interested in IP to convey their technical background as opposed to arbitrary law school grades. At the same time, I can do half my bids with my grades, and half without. Not sure if that is too beneficial but it might be a nice little experiment.


Replied to poster: Yeah, I get that you can't actually hide your grades because you need an unofficial transcript for Loyola. If you're filling out fields that require GPA, don't be disingenuous. Your grades are what they are, and you can't/shouldn't hide them.

Remember an ancillary point about law schools: not all law school curves are created equal, and interviewing attorneys won't necessarily have a set expectation for GPA going into interviewing. If you're shooting for larger markets, their hiring will be more sophisticated/attuned to specific law school curves, but if you target other markets where you have ties, they might not be aware of your particular school's median, in which case your lackluster GPA won't look as lackluster.

Despite your performance to this point, you can absolutely nail down desirable employment. In fact, you might get an offer to return for 2L summer from your 1L firm, which takes all of the stress out of the hiring process. Even though you won't be relying on that offer, you should focus your effort much more on impressing your 1L firm vice worrying about whether to include your GPA in required fields for Loyola. You have the opportunity to give yourself a safety blanket through Loyola/OCI, and you can't waste that. Be smart and strategic about your bids, but your biggest focus should be getting an offer from your 1L firm.

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Re: Not Reporting Your Grades for PLIP Loyola

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 15, 2017 11:22 pm

Bluem_11 wrote:You're likely SOL if trying to hit biglaw or any type of litigator role. Whether you leave grades on or off, you're not fooling anyone.

Pros are much more lenient on that. I remember once interview I did at PLIP at a SF/SV pros shop that said "we couldn't care less about law school/legal skills just tell me what you know about circuits". Anecdotal there, but indicative on my experience in the industry as a whole.

So yes target your resume, specifically your undergrad degree. Target ties.


OP here. Absolutely not SOL for biglaw/litigation in general. My GPA should have risen well enough after this semester to do ok at OCI (knock on wood), and if not then I'll hustle and do better next year. But yea I might be SOL at PLIP. I'm not particularly interested in Pros either, but I'll take your advice and find some places that suit well with my undergrad degree. Do you think I should report my gpa though? My overall concern is not even getting my foot in the door, even if Pros are more lenient about that stuff.

Bluem_11

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Re: Not Reporting Your Grades for PLIP Loyola

Postby Bluem_11 » Mon May 15, 2017 11:34 pm

I wouldn't lead with my grades were terrible, and then say "Well they're probably alright". Will change what advice you're given.

Recruiters have seen it all. You're not going to sneak your lack of GPA disclosure by them. It might be fine, but they're going to know the reason.Unless you're like dead last in your class, better off to disclose to avoid the inevitable request for it.

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Re: Not Reporting Your Grades for PLIP Loyola

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 15, 2017 11:45 pm

Bluem_11 wrote:I wouldn't lead with my grades were terrible, and then say "Well they're probably alright". Will change what advice you're given.

Recruiters have seen it all. You're not going to sneak your lack of GPA disclosure by them. It might be fine, but they're going to know the reason.Unless you're like dead last in your class, better off to disclose to avoid the inevitable request for it.


I was saying they were terrible for the first semester but probably alright after the second semester. The issue is that PLIP doesn't see the second semester grades. We get 32 bids so I might reserve a few of those as non-disclosure ones and report my grades for the rest. We'll see what happens.



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