Breaking the Mold

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Breaking the Mold

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 09, 2017 11:44 pm

Deleted
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat May 13, 2017 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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swampman

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby swampman » Tue May 09, 2017 11:46 pm

Having been through 1L year, do you now feel prepared to captain some industry?

(sorry for feeding the troll).

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 09, 2017 11:49 pm

swampman wrote:Having been through 1L year, do you now feel prepared to captain some industry?
I have other educational and work experiences that I believe I could build a different life. If you are K-JD then obviously you don't understand what it means to battle in the real world. But at the end of the day if you are a smart dude/dudess why is the only option the big law grind.

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swampman

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby swampman » Tue May 09, 2017 11:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
swampman wrote:Having been through 1L year, do you now feel prepared to captain some industry?
I have other educational and work experiences that I believe I could build a different life.

So did you think law school was going to get you from where you were to being the captain of the industries?

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lymenheimer

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby lymenheimer » Tue May 09, 2017 11:52 pm

Great use of anon. Giving valuable input to these prestigious fora.

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TLSModBot

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby TLSModBot » Tue May 09, 2017 11:52 pm

I plan on using Biglaw to skip captain and lateral right to Commodore of Industry

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 09, 2017 11:53 pm

swampman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
swampman wrote:Having been through 1L year, do you now feel prepared to captain some industry?
I have other educational and work experiences that I believe I could build a different life.

So did you think law school was going to get you from where you were to being the captain of the industries?
You are using a term I expressed to excuse the general concept of this post. I'm young enough that I would never be running a company straight out of school. I'm also old enough to know that if you are smart and could excel in other environments than a law firm you could run the show. The point isn't that you are CLO of a company after graduating from law school. It's the fact that no law school believes it can be done from any other route than OCI.

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Mr. Blackacre

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby Mr. Blackacre » Tue May 09, 2017 11:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
swampman wrote:Having been through 1L year, do you now feel prepared to captain some industry?
I have other educational and work experiences that I believe I could build a different life. If you are K-JD then obviously you don't understand what it means to battle in the real world. But at the end of the day if you are a smart dude/dudess why is the only option the big law grind.


It's definitelly dudette. Who the hell writes dudess?

I otherwise congratulate you on your original thinking. No one else had ever thought of escaping the biglaw machine.

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 10, 2017 12:01 am

Capitol_Idea wrote:I plan on using Biglaw to skip captain and lateral right to Commodore of Industry
I'm sure sarcasm will get you far in life

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swampman

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby swampman » Wed May 10, 2017 12:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Capitol_Idea wrote:I plan on using Biglaw to skip captain and lateral right to Commodore of Industry
I'm sure sarcasm will get you far in life

Honestly I would bet it gets him to Rear Admiral. Probably not much farther than that though, sarcasm is frowned upon among full admirals.

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 10, 2017 12:08 am

Hey! Let's start a new firm together...The Law Offices of Anonymous Anonymous and Anonymous

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jkpolk

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby jkpolk » Wed May 10, 2017 12:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am a 1L who is probably going to be fine in terms of OCI. My question is why law students limit themselves to being a big law lawyer. Don't get me wrong I've met a lot of ~happy~ Big law lawyers that are making a lot money because they feel safe in the pay check. But if you really are someone who can get one of those jobs why are you settling for being someone else's bitch for endless years for the possibility that you might leave it someday and have a normal life or you struggle it out for partner.. The way it appears to me is that life never get's that good because almost everyone hates their job.. Why are aren't there more lawyers who use their education to innovate and become captains of some industry. Why aren't there more lawyers who try to build something as opposed to be a cog? I understand the risk-adverseness of the law as well as the fact that everyone is in a shit ton of debt. I also understand that most lawyers don't have a great business sense (at least from what I've experienced from fellow law students) but the bottom line is that if you don't break the mold your life is always going to be average - not in terms of what house you are able to buy - but when you realize that you are a decently smart person that could have controlled your destiny. At the end of the day we all blame our original station in life for where we are but if you are really are that smart - Either from Harvard or top of your class at UH - why the fuck do you want to be a drone?


The real reason is that I'm a pussy and I take the guaranteed money because it's relatively easy and guaranteed. The words you use and the way you phrase things is exactly how I think of the "practice" of law after a few years. The thing is, the path is easy and well trod. The path to business success or whatever else you want to do is substantially more complicated unless you have millions of dollars in which case you're probably sunning yourself and drinking a [whatever you like, fuck work]. This is the lot of wage slaves.

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 10, 2017 12:16 am

jkpolk wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a 1L who is probably going to be fine in terms of OCI. My question is why law students limit themselves to being a big law lawyer. Don't get me wrong I've met a lot of ~happy~ Big law lawyers that are making a lot money because they feel safe in the pay check. But if you really are someone who can get one of those jobs why are you settling for being someone else's bitch for endless years for the possibility that you might leave it someday and have a normal life or you struggle it out for partner.. The way it appears to me is that life never get's that good because almost everyone hates their job.. Why are aren't there more lawyers who use their education to innovate and become captains of some industry. Why aren't there more lawyers who try to build something as opposed to be a cog? I understand the risk-adverseness of the law as well as the fact that everyone is in a shit ton of debt. I also understand that most lawyers don't have a great business sense (at least from what I've experienced from fellow law students) but the bottom line is that if you don't break the mold your life is always going to be average - not in terms of what house you are able to buy - but when you realize that you are a decently smart person that could have controlled your destiny. At the end of the day we all blame our original station in life for where we are but if you are really are that smart - Either from Harvard or top of your class at UH - why the fuck do you want to be a drone?


The real reason is that I'm a pussy and I take the guaranteed money because it's relatively easy and guaranteed. The words you use and the way you phrase things is exactly how I think of the "practice" of law after a few years. The thing is, the path is easy and well trod. The path to business success or whatever else you want to do is substantially more complicated unless you have millions of dollars in which case you're probably sunning yourself and drinking a [whatever you like, fuck work]. This is the lot of wage slaves.


Honesty is the most useful. But this still speaks to the general problem. Is the law so systematically risk-adverse to a lower salary that you have to work for a T100 firm to feel successful?

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Vincent Adultman

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby Vincent Adultman » Wed May 10, 2017 12:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am a 1L who is probably going to be fine in terms of OCI.


lol

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jkpolk

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby jkpolk » Wed May 10, 2017 12:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:
jkpolk wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a 1L who is probably going to be fine in terms of OCI. My question is why law students limit themselves to being a big law lawyer. Don't get me wrong I've met a lot of ~happy~ Big law lawyers that are making a lot money because they feel safe in the pay check. But if you really are someone who can get one of those jobs why are you settling for being someone else's bitch for endless years for the possibility that you might leave it someday and have a normal life or you struggle it out for partner.. The way it appears to me is that life never get's that good because almost everyone hates their job.. Why are aren't there more lawyers who use their education to innovate and become captains of some industry. Why aren't there more lawyers who try to build something as opposed to be a cog? I understand the risk-adverseness of the law as well as the fact that everyone is in a shit ton of debt. I also understand that most lawyers don't have a great business sense (at least from what I've experienced from fellow law students) but the bottom line is that if you don't break the mold your life is always going to be average - not in terms of what house you are able to buy - but when you realize that you are a decently smart person that could have controlled your destiny. At the end of the day we all blame our original station in life for where we are but if you are really are that smart - Either from Harvard or top of your class at UH - why the fuck do you want to be a drone?


The real reason is that I'm a pussy and I take the guaranteed money because it's relatively easy and guaranteed. The words you use and the way you phrase things is exactly how I think of the "practice" of law after a few years. The thing is, the path is easy and well trod. The path to business success or whatever else you want to do is substantially more complicated unless you have millions of dollars in which case you're probably sunning yourself and drinking a [whatever you like, fuck work]. This is the lot of wage slaves.


Honesty is the most useful. But this still speaks to the general problem. Is the law so systematically risk-adverse to a lower salary that you have to work for a T100 firm to feel successful?


You know, it's person to person. I don't feel "successful" because I work for a prestigious firm. I make money to survive. It's easy because most other lawyers are dumb. I would be similarly selling out in any job. If you really want to be a plaintiff attorney (or whatever) you should do that. Money is not life, it's a stupid medium we use to organize a stupid system of exchange.

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jkpolk

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby jkpolk » Wed May 10, 2017 12:23 am

Martin Brody wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a 1L who is probably going to be fine in terms of OCI.


lol


calm down bro

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby dabigchina » Wed May 10, 2017 12:24 am

can we get some paragraphs? the block of text is making my eyes hurt after studying for finals.

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jingosaur

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby jingosaur » Wed May 10, 2017 12:28 am

Please try this for yourself and let us know how it worked out 10 years from now. Thanks.

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lymenheimer

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby lymenheimer » Wed May 10, 2017 12:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:T100 firm

The hell kind of ranking system is this?

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TheDapperDruid

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby TheDapperDruid » Wed May 10, 2017 1:02 am

OP, I understand the point you're trying to make, but I don't think you fully comprehend the amount of risk that comes with taking the entrepreneurial route. My father is a life-long entrepreneur, and I feel that I can share some valuable insight as to undertaking this path.

My father has a degree in mechanical engineering from a non-prestigious undergrad, so I suppose any top law school may afford better JD advantage/entrepreneurial prospects than that. But because neither degree is directly geared towards business like an MBA is, I would say that the two educational backgrounds are likely to render somewhat similar results.

This being said, my father ran a fair sized lawn mowing business in high school, worked for a large engineering firm developing military hardware, then started a soft-serve chain out of college, franchised it, invested the money from that wisely, worked his way into a CEO position at a tech company, then became CEO and created products for a beverage company, and is now largely a financial consultant working offerings and investing his capital in other businesses while developing his own businesses on the side. All of this is to say that entrepreneurship does not have a clear path. There is no guarantee that you'll get any particular job, and, more importantly, you're going to need the confidence and versatility to jump into fields you may know nothing about and the capital to get the ball rolling. It's also important to note that these are the successes, with plenty of failures in between. Finally, the leadership roles came because he is good at running companies effectively and, most importantly, raising money. If you can make it rain, then that's likely experience enough.

No one is going to give you a leadership role if you don't have the experience to warrant their trust. To get this experience, it often takes a job working towards it or enough capital to venture out on your own, and unlike a job that pays you an annual salary, with a venture it's very possible that you'll lose the money you put in.

I have similar thoughts as to what I'd like to do in the future; I'd like to create something of my own. I've had some minor successful entrepreneurial ventures of my own, but the key thing you have to realize is that what you can build is a matter of what you have to build with. You need experience to get into any important position, and you get that experience by either starting somewhere, proving you can make things happen on a meaningful level, and lateraling, by working your way up the ladder within a given company, or you can create something of your own. But if you take the entrepreneurial path, you're going to need a source of capital. Unless you have family willing to fund your venture, you're going to need a job to fund whatever you pursue.

In addition, I think you underestimate how nerve racking it can be to be in full entrepreneurial mode as my father is now. He doesn't have a job paying him an annual salary, and so he is supporting the family with his savings. He could get a full-time job if he wanted to, but his time is more valuably used if he is creating something of his own.

But you have to realize that he can do this because he has managed his money very carefully, is highly liquid, and has capital he can put to use without the risk of putting himself in a financially unstable position. YOU on the other hand likely do not have this kind of security, hence the need to work until you amass enough capital where you can justify venturing out on your own and undertaking such risk.

This is why I plan to work in big law as long as I can. If I by some miracle enjoy the work and stick with it, that's great, but I'd likely still make time (if possible) to put that money I've accumulated to work. If I decide to ditch it, then if I have enough money to comfortably take on some entrepreneurial risk, then I'll do it. But if don't have enough, then the extent of my entrepreneurial ventures will be tempered by both my available capital and the time afforded outside of whatever job I'm working.

Just keep in mind, it's not fun to be flying by the seat of your pants with no financial security to cushion your fall.

TLDR: You need capital to go entrepreneurial, and you need experience to get a leadership position. Experience gets you capital. Bottom line is: Get the experience because you need both it and the capital it brings to either get a high level business role or have enough financial security to take on the risk that accompanies entrepreneurship. Also, if you can show experience as a rainmaker, most companies will want you if you can manage things effectively and prove they can put their trust in you.

MOST IMPORTANTLY: 90% of startups fail. Do not loose sight of the immense risk in taking this route.
Last edited by TheDapperDruid on Wed May 10, 2017 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LaLiLuLeLo

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Wed May 10, 2017 1:15 am

This thread really resonates with me. I went to law school to one day become Captain Crunch.

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 10, 2017 1:15 am

I have a problem with this post because I think it's a little tone deaf to the situations that other people may be in. I'm a minority, grew up poor, as in I was actually on food stamps during elementary school. My younger siblings want to do sports programs and orchestra but violins are expensive and my parents have made a lot of sacrifices. Do I look at success stories of people who do their own thing and admire them? Definitely. But I'm going to do biglaw so I can guarantee myself a confortable salary and help out my parents and my siblings in any way I can. I would rather have the guaranteed money now and if/when I want to leave, I'll think about other career paths.

jarofsoup

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby jarofsoup » Wed May 10, 2017 7:42 am

Yet is a very mold profession. You don't break the mold, it breaks you.

Npret

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby Npret » Wed May 10, 2017 7:48 am

OP get a job first before you start lecturing other people. I have you down as a OCI strikeout who won't bother to massmail, will bid above the level your credentials actually place you, and will interview poorly.
Also, T100 isn't prestigious.

cavalier1138

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Re: Breaking the Mold

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed May 10, 2017 7:59 am

If I'm just a Lieutenant of Industry, when do I become eligible for a promotion?

Also, what about legal practice screams "entrepreneurial opportunities" to you?



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