Firm suggestions for OCI

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cookiejar1

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby cookiejar1 » Mon May 08, 2017 8:14 am

How does bidding for OCI work at Boalt? Another thing you should be planning now is the order of your bids to maximize the number of interviews you get. Study how the interviews are handed out and try to take advantage of that too.

RaceJudicata

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby RaceJudicata » Mon May 08, 2017 10:14 am

Bidding Orange County seems super risky given your stats/ties. All of those offices have small class sizes. Personally, I'd focus on LA/Dallas exclusively. Mass mail and try and network w/ OC and KC firms.

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morningstar

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby morningstar » Mon May 08, 2017 6:18 pm

cookiejar1 wrote:How does bidding for OCI work at Boalt? Another thing you should be planning now is the order of your bids to maximize the number of interviews you get. Study how the interviews are handed out and try to take advantage of that too.


Interviews are handed out "entirely by computer lottery". We are able to bid as many as we want (they recommend at least 60, but more than 70 might be "excessive") in order to get our 20 interviews during EIW.

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morningstar

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby morningstar » Mon May 08, 2017 6:21 pm

Npret wrote:Firms want you to pick a location. Being uncertain makes you seem uncommitted. They arent going to sort your life out for you. Figure out where you want to live the most. You should do this anyway because you may be at the firm only a couple of years and the firm shouldn't be your basis for choosing.

How did you create this list? What criteria and process did you use?


The list is very preliminary, and doesn't represent a complete list by any stretch. It was simply the list of the firms that participated in OCI last year with offices in my target markets. I posted all of the locations, with the hopes that people could rule out some that I would be wasting bids on because of my grades/lack of ECs.

The list of firms that come to OCI is obviously much longer. I intended that just as a starting point for who to bid in my target markets. What's the best resource for finding summer class sizes? NALP?

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby Npret » Mon May 08, 2017 6:51 pm

morningstar wrote:
Npret wrote:Firms want you to pick a location. Being uncertain makes you seem uncommitted. They arent going to sort your life out for you. Figure out where you want to live the most. You should do this anyway because you may be at the firm only a couple of years and the firm shouldn't be your basis for choosing.

How did you create this list? What criteria and process did you use?


The list is very preliminary, and doesn't represent a complete list by any stretch. It was simply the list of the firms that participated in OCI last year with offices in my target markets. I posted all of the locations, with the hopes that people could rule out some that I would be wasting bids on because of my grades/lack of ECs.

The list of firms that come to OCI is obviously much longer. I intended that just as a starting point for who to bid in my target markets. What's the best resource for finding summer class sizes? NALP?

Oh ok great.
NALP is good but there is also a thread here where people have posted their summer classes, mostly NYC though. You could post and ask about specific firms and might get results.

I know everyone has been telling you to massmail, but you really should. Don't count on OCI alone.

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 08, 2017 7:45 pm

Specific to OC:

GPA wise you should be fine at most OC firms. However, as previously stated, OC offices are small. They prioritize fit and, from my experience, ties to Orange County. You need to demonstrate that you want to be in Orange County and you're not a flight risk to LA.

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 08, 2017 7:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Specific to OC:

GPA wise you should be fine at most OC firms. However, as previously stated, OC offices are small. They prioritize fit and, from my experience, ties to Orange County. You need to demonstrate that you want to be in Orange County and you're not a flight risk to LA.


I can confirm this. I summered at one of the previously mentioned OC firms and they wanted strong ties. I did not have those ties, but convinced them I did . . . then within a year I moved to their LA office.

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 08, 2017 7:48 pm

and dont make the mortal mistake of thinking that Northern California ties, or going to Cal, count as ties to anywhere in socal

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 08, 2017 8:31 pm

-V&E: Don't waste a spot on V&E, you don't have the grades for it in any market.
-Baker Botts: probably don't have the grades for it, I'd also remove.


Just wanted to say that I got Baker Botts in multiple TX offices with much worse grades than yours at a peer school. I know a guy from another lower T14 who received a callback with grades well below median (no offer but he's not a good interviewer). Both of us grew up in TX, but I think your ties to Dallas are good enough based on people I've met who worked there.

I agree that V&E might be out, but I don't think it'd be a waste of a bid.

Edit: this post could be too optimistic, but I guess my point is you should definitely ask around to gauge what kind of grades you need. I would think median grades and the prosser prize or whatever it's called would make you competitive
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon May 08, 2017 8:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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morningstar

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby morningstar » Mon May 08, 2017 8:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Specific to OC:

GPA wise you should be fine at most OC firms. However, as previously stated, OC offices are small. They prioritize fit and, from my experience, ties to Orange County. You need to demonstrate that you want to be in Orange County and you're not a flight risk to LA.


Before I moved to Berkeley for law school, I had lived in SoCal (orange county) for 11 years. All of my friends are in that area and out towards the Inland Empire, and OC is where I did my undergrad. I really do have strong ties to OC (and vastly prefer it to LA), but I'm not sure of the best way to convince prospective firms of that.

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby Mickfromgm » Mon May 08, 2017 8:55 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Exclusive to OC:

With median grades you can pretty much erase Latham and Sheppard. Both firms Have pretty high GPA cutoffs. When I did OCI, Brown Rudnick only gave CBs to people with 3.9+

OP: Be wary of accepting this kind of anecdotal advice. I don't know where our anon friend went to law school, but a Boalttt student doesn't need a 3.9 (or its equivalent) to get hired at a OC office of either of these firms. If you got a top-of-the-class award in Contracts plus a two or three more Hs, you're competitive at most CA offices.


Seriously . . . . 3.9+ for Brown Rudnick??? I'd hate to know what Wachtel would require . . . .5.0? :)

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 08, 2017 10:59 pm

Mickfromgm wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Exclusive to OC:

With median grades you can pretty much erase Latham and Sheppard. Both firms Have pretty high GPA cutoffs. When I did OCI, Brown Rudnick only gave CBs to people with 3.9+

OP: Be wary of accepting this kind of anecdotal advice. I don't know where our anon friend went to law school, but a Boalttt student doesn't need a 3.9 (or its equivalent) to get hired at a OC office of either of these firms. If you got a top-of-the-class award in Contracts plus a two or three more Hs, you're competitive at most CA offices.


Seriously . . . . 3.9+ for Brown Rudnick??? I'd hate to know what Wachtel would require . . . .5.0? :)

I think their published cutoff was 3.3 but the interviews they gave were people much much above that.

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby candidlatke » Tue May 09, 2017 12:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mickfromgm wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Exclusive to OC:

With median grades you can pretty much erase Latham and Sheppard. Both firms Have pretty high GPA cutoffs. When I did OCI, Brown Rudnick only gave CBs to people with 3.9+

OP: Be wary of accepting this kind of anecdotal advice. I don't know where our anon friend went to law school, but a Boalttt student doesn't need a 3.9 (or its equivalent) to get hired at a OC office of either of these firms. If you got a top-of-the-class award in Contracts plus a two or three more Hs, you're competitive at most CA offices.


Seriously . . . . 3.9+ for Brown Rudnick??? I'd hate to know what Wachtel would require . . . .5.0? :)

I think their published cutoff was 3.3 but the interviews they gave were people much much above that.


might be office specific. going off of their site, they have all of 3 associates in the OC location, one of which graduated 08

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby rpupkin » Tue May 09, 2017 12:18 am

morningstar wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Specific to OC:

GPA wise you should be fine at most OC firms. However, as previously stated, OC offices are small. They prioritize fit and, from my experience, ties to Orange County. You need to demonstrate that you want to be in Orange County and you're not a flight risk to LA.


Before I moved to Berkeley for law school, I had lived in SoCal (orange county) for 11 years. All of my friends are in that area and out towards the Inland Empire, and OC is where I did my undergrad. I really do have strong ties to OC (and vastly prefer it to LA), but I'm not sure of the best way to convince prospective firms of that.

You're more than fine for OC (and LA) ties. I don't think you'll have a hard time convincing firms that you want to work in the OC. The reason to diversify your bids is to ensure that you get a job somewhere. Because, as folks keep mentioning, the OC offices have small summer classes. A strategy that focuses disproportionately on OC firms increases the risk that you'll strike out entirely. That's why you should throw in several LA bids as well.
Last edited by rpupkin on Tue May 09, 2017 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby foregetaboutdre » Tue May 09, 2017 12:35 am

* Edit just realized you have 60-70 bids for 20 interviews. I'd multiply everything by 3.

If you have 20 bids why not (and mass mail the rest):

3 OC
7 LA
3 Dallas
7 NYC

Maybe lose 1 of the bids and bid that KC firm (which I think is the biggest in KC) if you have decent ties there. I'd personally forget about Chi/DC...

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby morningstar » Tue May 09, 2017 1:26 am

because of my history at the school, and because of the extenuating circumstances surrounding my absence, I'm pretty sure if I told them I was going to bid on every single firm on the list, they'd tell me to go for it. They've all been very supportive after my son died, and one great thing I can say about this school is that they're here to help. Here's what the school says:

There is no limit imposed on the number of bids, but we believe that submitting more than 70 would be excessive for a 2L. On the other hand, you should bid on at least 60 firms to ensure you achieve the 20 interview maximum. (In the past, most students have done at least 20 EIW interviews.)


I'm working on a spreadsheet to maximize my chances of good interviews (not just total write-offs) from my 20 interviews (and I can also supplement that 20 with any open slot interviews I can arrange after the bids go out)

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby morningstar » Tue May 09, 2017 1:38 am

Here's the list of firms that came to OCI last year, their estimated class sizes for my target markets in 2017 from NALP, and any info I was able to gather regarding their GPA stringent-ness (stringinity? I have no idea. Words.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hK1zsVH_7T9UyMDkE1Ac9gCgeusJ616-j8OFS_nSCGk/edit?usp=sharing

Comments?

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby Npret » Tue May 09, 2017 1:57 am

I'm very sorry about the death of your son. You know posters here will help you with these details of bidding and job search and other practical questions. Don't hesitate to post questions.

Overall, I think you will be fine. I'm going to once again suggest that you are clear about where you want to live. Maybe you have an ordered list of preferences, but you have too many choices right now and I've seen that sink people. I understand wanting to stay open, but think about where you want to live and narrow this down.

Have you seen the massmailing threads? You can massmail these firms and hit them all if you want. But I feel you have to be more refined in your OCI bidding location wise. You have plenty of time to think it through.

Usually people refer to firms grade selectivity to mean their cutoffs.

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 09, 2017 2:08 am

morningstar wrote:Here's the list of firms that came to OCI last year, their estimated class sizes for my target markets in 2017 from NALP, and any info I was able to gather regarding their GPA stringent-ness (stringinity? I have no idea. Words.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hK1zsVH_7T9UyMDkE1Ac9gCgeusJ616-j8OFS_nSCGk/edit?usp=sharing

Comments?


this is bizarre. I can only speak to my particular mid-t14, and I am a couple years out now, but a lot of your info looks pretty wrong. I was median ish, and for many of the firms you indicate are not grade selective, I would not have had a chance in hell. OCS should have this info for you, and particular to your school. Mine emailed every student a spreadsheet of all 200some firms when we were filling out our bidlists.

is there a reason you can't talk to anyone at your school? I get that you probably haven't been able to be present at the school very much, but you seem abnormally uninformed for a rising 2L preparing for OCI. I would really recommend sitting down with the OCS, talking to some upperclassmen, doing some mock interviews, etc.

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby rpupkin » Tue May 09, 2017 2:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:
morningstar wrote:Here's the list of firms that came to OCI last year, their estimated class sizes for my target markets in 2017 from NALP, and any info I was able to gather regarding their GPA stringent-ness (stringinity? I have no idea. Words.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hK1zsVH_7T9UyMDkE1Ac9gCgeusJ616-j8OFS_nSCGk/edit?usp=sharing

Comments?


this is bizarre. I can only speak to my particular mid-t14, and I am a couple years out now, but a lot of your info looks pretty wrong.

I don't know--I could quibble with some of the designations, but the info in the spreadsheet looks mostly right to me. It certainly doesn't reach the level of "bizarre." What are some of the firms that strike you as way off?

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 09, 2017 2:38 am

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
morningstar wrote:Here's the list of firms that came to OCI last year, their estimated class sizes for my target markets in 2017 from NALP, and any info I was able to gather regarding their GPA stringent-ness (stringinity? I have no idea. Words.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hK1zsVH_7T9UyMDkE1Ac9gCgeusJ616-j8OFS_nSCGk/edit?usp=sharing

Comments?


this is bizarre. I can only speak to my particular mid-t14, and I am a couple years out now, but a lot of your info looks pretty wrong.

I don't know--I could quibble with some of the designations, but the info in the spreadsheet looks mostly right to me. It certainly doesn't reach the level of "bizarre." What are some of the firms that strike you as way off?


cursorily... DPW, STB, Cleary, Quinn, Wilmer, Skadden... calling these firms "not GPA selective" ..... i suppose we could have different definitions of what "GPA selective" means but you are not waltzing into these places with bad grades. particularly when you characterize P,W as very grade selective

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby cron1834 » Tue May 09, 2017 3:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:
morningstar wrote:Here's the list of firms that came to OCI last year, their estimated class sizes for my target markets in 2017 from NALP, and any info I was able to gather regarding their GPA stringent-ness (stringinity? I have no idea. Words.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hK1zsVH_7T9UyMDkE1Ac9gCgeusJ616-j8OFS_nSCGk/edit?usp=sharing

Comments?


this is bizarre. I can only speak to my particular mid-t14, and I am a couple years out now, but a lot of your info looks pretty wrong. I was median ish, and for many of the firms you indicate are not grade selective, I would not have had a chance in hell. OCS should have this info for you, and particular to your school. Mine emailed every student a spreadsheet of all 200some firms when we were filling out our bidlists.

is there a reason you can't talk to anyone at your school? I get that you probably haven't been able to be present at the school very much, but you seem abnormally uninformed for a rising 2L preparing for OCI. I would really recommend sitting down with the OCS, talking to some upperclassmen, doing some mock interviews, etc.

Agreed. Some of these "not selective" designations are wrong for a lower T14. This isn't Harvard. Cleary, Latham, and DPW offers don't grow on trees for a school with barely a coin flip's chance at biglaw for class of '16.

And, it's inconceivable that something approximating this data doesn't exist at your career office, as I pointed out earlier. I can't believe that a reputable law school doesn't compile anything and makes you throw darts at a board for bidding.

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby cron1834 » Tue May 09, 2017 3:42 am

Accidental dup.
Last edited by cron1834 on Tue May 09, 2017 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Firm suggestions for OCI

Postby jphiggo » Tue May 09, 2017 3:51 am

Berkeley CDO has a rough guide to firm selectivity with their grading system available for in-person viewing in their office. I'd suggest you take a look at it when you get a chance.

If your goal is an offer regardless of location, use the data that CDO will provide that shows you last year's EIW results. For example, there are some firms that give all or nearly all of every screener a call back. From there, you can sort those firms by the ones that gave nearly all or all of their callbacks offers. These firms exist (e.g. WSGR was one of those when I was in your position, landing one of their screener slots was basically scoring an offer). Prioritize them if you want a good chance at an offer. I recommend this strategy for at least the first 5, if not 10, of your bids if the bottom line is that you want at least one offer from EIW. Then you can try and target more of the secondary markets that interest you (although really, reaching out to those firms in advance of EIW and getting either a screener outside the bidding process or just mass mailing them can work). I know of multiple folks who landed offers prior to EIW by going to summer recruiting events or talking to 3Ls (and even 2Ls this summer once they are at their firm) that summered at firms they were interested in and managing to land screeners with their help.



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