First Day Clothes/Beard

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mjb447

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby mjb447 » Fri May 05, 2017 9:54 am

Nebby wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
Nebby wrote:Do either of you take public transit to work? Do you ever go to the gym during work?

I did both of those things and never used a backpack. I think I had a duffel bag for the gym that mostly lived at work.

Good for you?

I hope by now you've figured out how my comment was relevant to solving the mystery of how people commute and exercise without wearing backpacks. Maybe you were just upset because everyone is picking on your backpack. Happens to all of us - first day of third grade was rough.

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rpupkin

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby rpupkin » Fri May 05, 2017 9:55 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Backpacks are for schoolkids and students and wearing them over business attire isn't comfortable at all.

Really? I'm with Nebby on this one. Perhaps it's just a California thing, but I see professionals with backpacks all the time. The 50-yr old partner who works in the office next to mine brings a backpack to work almost every day.

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby 1styearlateral » Fri May 05, 2017 10:00 am

rpupkin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Backpacks are for schoolkids and students and wearing them over business attire isn't comfortable at all.

Really? I'm with Nebby on this one. Perhaps it's just a California thing, but I see professionals with backpacks all the time. The 50-yr old partner who works in the office next to mine brings a backpack to work almost every day.

IME, older attorneys who wear backpacks are generally ones who also wear black Reeboks to court. Backpacks are great for traveling but not a good look for work.

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby lawhopeful100 » Fri May 05, 2017 10:01 am

rpupkin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Backpacks are for schoolkids and students and wearing them over business attire isn't comfortable at all.

Really? I'm with Nebby on this one. Perhaps it's just a California thing, but I see professionals with backpacks all the time. The 50-yr old partner who works in the office next to mine brings a backpack to work almost every day.

Partner in the office next to me wears a backpack a lot too. Still think he looks a little strange lol. One of my buddies in the firm brings one a lot too. No one cares obviously, but I think you look better without one.

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Lavitz

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby Lavitz » Fri May 05, 2017 10:06 am

BigZuck wrote:You've combined two TLS standards- Suit up first day? and Shave or no shave? These things are covered just about every other week on TLS but I've never seen them in the same thread before!

The correct answer is suit and shave. But this is TLS, so we'll probably argue about this backpacks for 3 pages or so.

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quiver

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby quiver » Fri May 05, 2017 10:15 am

For backpacks:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Backpacks are for schoolkids and students and wearing them over business attire isn't comfortable at all.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't use them if you like them. I just think they look bad (especially when it is clearly the backpack you carried all through college/law school), but who cares?
Generally agree with this. Backpacks with a full suit look odd. I think backpacks with business casual aren't awful, though. The distinction for me is the double straps over a suit jacket, which is neither comfortable nor professional looking.

For beards: I agree with others that it should fine as long as it's not out of control. If a firm requires me to be clean shaven, I don't want to work there. (FWIW, I've worked at some stuffy firms. I've always interviewed and worked with a beard; never had any issue.)

For BigZuck: 3 pages and counting. Well played.

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kalvano

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby kalvano » Fri May 05, 2017 10:17 am

There's a big difference between a $25 Jansport bag from Academy and a $150 Arcteryx business backpack, too.

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rpupkin

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby rpupkin » Fri May 05, 2017 10:41 am

1styearlateral wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Backpacks are for schoolkids and students and wearing them over business attire isn't comfortable at all.

Really? I'm with Nebby on this one. Perhaps it's just a California thing, but I see professionals with backpacks all the time. The 50-yr old partner who works in the office next to mine brings a backpack to work almost every day.

IME, older attorneys who wear backpacks are generally ones who also wear black Reeboks to court.

This attorney doesn't wear sneakers to work. And he wouldn't bring a backpack to court. But in the office, I think it's fine unless you work in a more traditional environment where folks will judge you for using a backpack because "backpacks are for kids."

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rpupkin

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby rpupkin » Fri May 05, 2017 10:45 am

1styearlateral wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Backpacks are for schoolkids and students and wearing them over business attire isn't comfortable at all.

Really? I'm with Nebby on this one. Perhaps it's just a California thing, but I see professionals with backpacks all the time. The 50-yr old partner who works in the office next to mine brings a backpack to work almost every day.

IME, older attorneys who wear backpacks are generally ones who also wear black Reeboks to court. Backpacks are great for traveling but not a good look for work.

But the point is that you use the backpack when traveling to and from work. I don't think anyone is suggesting that an attorney should wear a backpack all day while walking around the office.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri May 05, 2017 10:54 am

rpupkin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Backpacks are for schoolkids and students and wearing them over business attire isn't comfortable at all.

Really? I'm with Nebby on this one. Perhaps it's just a California thing, but I see professionals with backpacks all the time. The 50-yr old partner who works in the office next to mine brings a backpack to work almost every day.

Lots of professionals make terrible sartorial choices all the time, though. I never claimed people don't do it; I'm just judging them.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri May 05, 2017 10:59 am

(Also you're welcome, zuck.)

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rpupkin

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby rpupkin » Fri May 05, 2017 11:04 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Backpacks are for schoolkids and students and wearing them over business attire isn't comfortable at all.

Really? I'm with Nebby on this one. Perhaps it's just a California thing, but I see professionals with backpacks all the time. The 50-yr old partner who works in the office next to mine brings a backpack to work almost every day.

Lots of professionals make terrible sartorial choices all the time, though. I never claimed people don't do it; I'm just judging them.

Maybe. I think we're in the realm of "must a man wear a suit and tie to work?" or "must a woman wear makeup and heels?" If you're in a more conservative office culture where folks will judge you for not doing these things, then you should probably do them. Same goes for bringing/not-bringing a backpack to work.

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby Nebby » Fri May 05, 2017 11:28 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:Yeah, backpacks being for kids is totally arbitrary and based on nothing more than convention, but so are lots of rules related to workplace dress. And I'm not saying you're going to get fired or treated like a pariah if you wear a backpack in a suit. People like me might think you look a little goofy, but there's no real reason you should give a shit what I think about your backpack anyway.

Who the hell wears a suit everyday except for the suckers at S&C?

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri May 05, 2017 11:30 am

Nebby wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:Yeah, backpacks being for kids is totally arbitrary and based on nothing more than convention, but so are lots of rules related to workplace dress. And I'm not saying you're going to get fired or treated like a pariah if you wear a backpack in a suit. People like me might think you look a little goofy, but there's no real reason you should give a shit what I think about your backpack anyway.

Who the hell wears a suit everyday except for the suckers at S&C?

He never said you wear one everyday, just that it looks goofy when you do?

(Also some of us go to court a lot.)

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby Nebby » Fri May 05, 2017 11:33 am

rpupkin wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Backpacks are for schoolkids and students and wearing them over business attire isn't comfortable at all.

Really? I'm with Nebby on this one. Perhaps it's just a California thing, but I see professionals with backpacks all the time. The 50-yr old partner who works in the office next to mine brings a backpack to work almost every day.

IME, older attorneys who wear backpacks are generally ones who also wear black Reeboks to court. Backpacks are great for traveling but not a good look for work.

But the point is that you use the backpack when traveling to and from work. I don't think anyone is suggesting that an attorney should wear a backpack all day while walking around the office.

This is the thing I fundamentally do not understand. I do not think anyone but absolute weirdos would wear a backpack to a work-related engagement, such as a client meeting or court.

I am specifically talking about the joys of merely using a nice backpack to go to and from work. I don't know why, as rpupkin pointed out, people thing that us endowed backpack wearers are also wearing them to important things.

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri May 05, 2017 11:59 am

Actually I judge summer associates who don't wear backpacks around the office. Just goes to show how individualized firm culture is.

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby lolwat » Fri May 05, 2017 12:01 pm

Nebby wrote:This is the thing I fundamentally do not understand. I do not think anyone but absolute weirdos would wear a backpack to a work-related engagement, such as a client meeting or court.

I am specifically talking about the joys of merely using a nice backpack to go to and from work. I don't know why, as rpupkin pointed out, people thing that us endowed backpack wearers are also wearing them to important things.


I carry a backpack to and from work daily. Not everyone else does, but no one has ever cared. But I guess I'm also in California where every firm is casual to business casual unless you're at Snell & Wilmer. For the most part, it's only on me as I travel from my car to my office and back again.

For court, I generally have a leather briefcase I use if it's not insanely document intensive, but if I've got two or three big binders of documents I need to bring, I've taken a backpack before and have never gotten any flak for it. I try to avoid it if possible just because of the strange perceptions people have like in this thread. But I also think a backpack looks no worse than people lugging around giant crates or luggage-looking bags around as if court were an airport or hotel, and a backpack is certainly more convenient than carrying a giant box of documents.

But going back for a moment to the original topic, which is what the OP (or anyone else) should do on the first day, my only advice is that your primary goal for the SA is to lock in an offer. If something that you can change takes away even 0.0001% chance from that, and changing it really won't affect life, then I'd do it. Will 99% of people care about a dude with a beard? Probably not. But you don't want to run into that 1%, and saying "if they care you wouldn't want to work there" is difficult when it's showing up for a summer associate position now, not an interview or callback.

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby elendinel » Fri May 05, 2017 12:13 pm

rpupkin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Backpacks are for schoolkids and students and wearing them over business attire isn't comfortable at all.

Really? I'm with Nebby on this one. Perhaps it's just a California thing, but I see professionals with backpacks all the time. The 50-yr old partner who works in the office next to mine brings a backpack to work almost every day.


I do this in NY (and yes, in suits) and literally no one has ever given me flak for it. Also I'd rather not have back problems when I'm 50 than worry about how I look in my 20s, but that may just be me.

I wouldn't wear a backpack to court, but to and from the office? I find it as strange to judge people about that as I think it is to judge women for wearing pants to an interview, but I guess it's something to keep in mind.

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Pragmatic Gun

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Fri May 05, 2017 12:19 pm

(just want to get this thread to four pages)

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri May 05, 2017 12:20 pm

lolwat wrote:
But going back for a moment to the original topic, which is what the OP (or anyone else) should do on the first day, my only advice is that your primary goal for the SA is to lock in an offer. If something that you can change takes away even 0.0001% chance from that, and changing it really won't affect life, then I'd do it. Will 99% of people care about a dude with a beard? Probably not. But you don't want to run into that 1%, and saying "if they care you wouldn't want to work there" is difficult when it's showing up for a summer associate position now, not an interview or callback.

I get this concept and generally agree, but you can go overboard. If you're looking at every interaction all summer through this lens of maximizing your offer chances, you're going to be a neurotic mess who, counterproductively, people don't like working with. At some point the best thing you can do is chill out and be normal.

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby 1styearlateral » Fri May 05, 2017 12:32 pm

Nebby wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Backpacks are for schoolkids and students and wearing them over business attire isn't comfortable at all.

Really? I'm with Nebby on this one. Perhaps it's just a California thing, but I see professionals with backpacks all the time. The 50-yr old partner who works in the office next to mine brings a backpack to work almost every day.

IME, older attorneys who wear backpacks are generally ones who also wear black Reeboks to court. Backpacks are great for traveling but not a good look for work.

But the point is that you use the backpack when traveling to and from work. I don't think anyone is suggesting that an attorney should wear a backpack all day while walking around the office.

This is the thing I fundamentally do not understand. I do not think anyone but absolute weirdos would wear a backpack to a work-related engagement, such as a client meeting or court.

I am specifically talking about the joys of merely using a nice backpack to go to and from work. I don't know why, as rpupkin pointed out, people thing that us endowed backpack wearers are also wearing them to important things.

I think it's more of a "practice how you want to play" mentality.

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby lolwat » Fri May 05, 2017 12:56 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
lolwat wrote:
But going back for a moment to the original topic, which is what the OP (or anyone else) should do on the first day, my only advice is that your primary goal for the SA is to lock in an offer. If something that you can change takes away even 0.0001% chance from that, and changing it really won't affect life, then I'd do it. Will 99% of people care about a dude with a beard? Probably not. But you don't want to run into that 1%, and saying "if they care you wouldn't want to work there" is difficult when it's showing up for a summer associate position now, not an interview or callback.

I get this concept and generally agree, but you can go overboard. If you're looking at every interaction all summer through this lens of maximizing your offer chances, you're going to be a neurotic mess who, counterproductively, people don't like working with. At some point the best thing you can do is chill out and be normal.


True, being social and "normal" (whatever that means these days) is also the path to an offer.
I'm not talking about necessarily worrying about every little thing, but people do sometimes care about how others look, so showing up in a suit and tie on the first day and clean-shaven is probably the safest in that regard. I get why people might not necessarily know how to dress for work, while many other things (i.e., don't be stupid/don't get drunk and do stupid things/don't get drunk at all) seem to be very common sense.

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 05, 2017 2:01 pm

Going to be at a Business Casual firm this summer. How conservative do I need to be? Navy and Charcoal only or with bus. casual come a little more flexibility in colors? Not talking powder blue gameshow host style, but window pane jacket/camel hair etc.?

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SmokeytheBear

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby SmokeytheBear » Fri May 05, 2017 2:07 pm

kalvano wrote:There's a big difference between a $25 Jansport bag from Academy and a $150 Arcteryx business backpack, too.


False.

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Re: First Day Clothes/Beard

Postby BigZuck » Fri May 05, 2017 2:08 pm

Pragmatic Gun wrote:(just want to get this thread to four pages)

(how dare you)



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