Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

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Desert Fox

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Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby Desert Fox » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:46 pm

1-Black associates are not worse than white associates
2-Black students do worse on average in law school
3-Thus, school success is irrelevant.

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BasilHallward

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby BasilHallward » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:50 pm

Okay… I agree that law school grades have a strong factor of arbitrariness, etc., but to expressly state that such a belief is wildly racist is just weird. I'm assuming your studying for ConLaw and running into some disparate impact cases??

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Harvard_Naw

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby Harvard_Naw » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:52 pm

Go home, you're drunk.

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anyriotgirl

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby anyriotgirl » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:56 pm

this is a new direction for you

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kellyfrost

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby kellyfrost » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:02 pm

BasilHallward wrote:Okay… I agree that law school grades have a strong factor of arbitrariness, etc., but to expressly state that such a belief is wildly racist is just weird. I'm assuming your studying for ConLaw and running into some disparate impact cases??


I think OP is a law school grad.

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Dcc617

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby Dcc617 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:04 pm

kellyfrost wrote:
BasilHallward wrote:Okay… I agree that law school grades have a strong factor of arbitrariness, etc., but to expressly state that such a belief is wildly racist is just weird. I'm assuming your studying for ConLaw and running into some disparate impact cases??


I think OP is a law school grad.


Yeah, he's just a bored asshole sometimes.


stoopkid13

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby stoopkid13 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:22 pm

BasilHallward wrote:Okay… I agree that law school grades have a strong factor of arbitrariness, etc., but to expressly state that such a belief is wildly racist is just weird. I'm assuming your studying for ConLaw and running into some disparate impact cases??


Image

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kellyfrost

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby kellyfrost » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:24 pm

Dcc617 wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
BasilHallward wrote:Okay… I agree that law school grades have a strong factor of arbitrariness, etc., but to expressly state that such a belief is wildly racist is just weird. I'm assuming your studying for ConLaw and running into some disparate impact cases??


I think OP is a law school grad.


Yeah, he's just a bored asshole sometimes.


I've always known him to be trustworthy. Loyal, helpful, fri belt, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

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Desert Fox

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby Desert Fox » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:27 pm

anyriotgirl wrote:this is a new direction for you


df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:37 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:this is a new direction for you


df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.


Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.

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mjb447

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby mjb447 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:00 pm

kellyfrost wrote:I've always known him to be trustworthy. Loyal, helpful, fri belt, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

Is this kind comment your Good Turn for today?

stoopkid13

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby stoopkid13 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:10 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:this is a new direction for you


df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.


Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.


Yes, for 1L grades at least. All minorities, including Asians, tend to fall below median, although Blacks perform the worst. (Consequently, Whites tend to fall slightly above median). Blacks have the greatest variance in terms of 1L grades though, so you certainly have many Blacks who get great grades etc. Source (look at Table 5): http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/research-(lsac-resources)/tr-12-02.pdf

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:16 pm

stoopkid13 wrote:Yes, for 1L grades at least. All minorities, including Asians, tend to fall below median, although Blacks perform the worst. (Consequently, Whites tend to fall slightly above median). Blacks have the greatest variance in terms of 1L grades though, so you certainly have many Blacks who get great grades etc. Source (look at Table 5): http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/research-(lsac-resources)/tr-12-02.pdf


I'm not questioning whether minority students have lower grades, I'm asking whether minority summer associates at selective law firms have lower grades than their peers at the same law firm.

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Desert Fox

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby Desert Fox » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:21 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
stoopkid13 wrote:Yes, for 1L grades at least. All minorities, including Asians, tend to fall below median, although Blacks perform the worst. (Consequently, Whites tend to fall slightly above median). Blacks have the greatest variance in terms of 1L grades though, so you certainly have many Blacks who get great grades etc. Source (look at Table 5): http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/research-(lsac-resources)/tr-12-02.pdf


I'm not questioning whether minority students have lower grades, I'm asking whether minority summer associates at selective law firms have lower grades than their peers at the same law firm.


yea, my old firm had explicit cut offs for everyone except black students. I don't think they had a mexican quota or native though.

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby star fox » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:26 pm

stoopkid13 wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:this is a new direction for you


df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.


Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.


Yes, for 1L grades at least. All minorities, including Asians, tend to fall below median, although Blacks perform the worst. (Consequently, Whites tend to fall slightly above median). Blacks have the greatest variance in terms of 1L grades though, so you certainly have many Blacks who get great grades etc. Source (look at Table 5): http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/research-(lsac-resources)/tr-12-02.pdf

What if you limit it just to Asians who are native English speakers? I bet they are above median.

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kellyfrost

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby kellyfrost » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:39 pm

mjb447 wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:I've always known him to be trustworthy. Loyal, helpful, fri belt, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

Is this kind comment your Good Turn for today?


It is my second of the day. I don't always get one in so it's good to make up for them when possible.

Hikikomorist

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby Hikikomorist » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:46 pm

star fox wrote:
stoopkid13 wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:this is a new direction for you


df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.


Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.


Yes, for 1L grades at least. All minorities, including Asians, tend to fall below median, although Blacks perform the worst. (Consequently, Whites tend to fall slightly above median). Blacks have the greatest variance in terms of 1L grades though, so you certainly have many Blacks who get great grades etc. Source (look at Table 5): http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/research-(lsac-resources)/tr-12-02.pdf

What if you limit it just to Asians who are native English speakers? I bet they are above median.

Not sure about this, but it would probably close the gap. Grades, more than test scores, are influenced by environmental/institutional support, so it makes intuitive sense to me that LSAT scores would slightly over-predict 1L grades for groups more likely to be lacking in those environmental factors.

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mjb447

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby mjb447 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:48 pm

kellyfrost wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:I've always known him to be trustworthy. Loyal, helpful, fri belt, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

Is this kind comment your Good Turn for today?


It is my second of the day. I don't always get one in so it's good to make up for them when possible.

Yeah, never hurts to be prepared.

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kellyfrost

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby kellyfrost » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:57 pm

mjb447 wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:I've always known him to be trustworthy. Loyal, helpful, fri belt, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

Is this kind comment your Good Turn for today?


It is my second of the day. I don't always get one in so it's good to make up for them when possible.

Yeah, never hurts to be prepared.


Helps keep me physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.

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BasilHallward

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby BasilHallward » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:02 pm

stoopkid13 wrote:
BasilHallward wrote:Okay… I agree that law school grades have a strong factor of arbitrariness, etc., but to expressly state that such a belief is wildly racist is just weird. I'm assuming your studying for ConLaw and running into some disparate impact cases??


Image



Thanks. I understand now. Lawl

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star fox

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby star fox » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:03 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
star fox wrote:
stoopkid13 wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:this is a new direction for you


df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.


Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.


Yes, for 1L grades at least. All minorities, including Asians, tend to fall below median, although Blacks perform the worst. (Consequently, Whites tend to fall slightly above median). Blacks have the greatest variance in terms of 1L grades though, so you certainly have many Blacks who get great grades etc. Source (look at Table 5): http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/research-(lsac-resources)/tr-12-02.pdf

What if you limit it just to Asians who are native English speakers? I bet they are above median.

Not sure about this, but it would probably close the gap. Grades, more than test scores, are influenced by environmental/institutional support, so it makes intuitive sense to me that LSAT scores would slightly over-predict 1L grades for groups more likely to be lacking in those environmental factors.

Those race horse issue spotters have gotta place a non-native English speaker at a big disadvantage

ballouttacontrol

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby ballouttacontrol » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:33 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:this is a new direction for you


df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.


Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.


my T14 had AA for LR too, so being on LR didn't really mean you had good grades if you were minority

grades??

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby grades?? » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:40 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:this is a new direction for you


df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.


Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.


my T14 had AA for LR too, so being on LR didn't really mean you had good grades if you were minority


Same with my t13. There is hardcore AA for LR

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Re: Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief

Postby TLSModBot » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:50 pm

kellyfrost wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:I've always known him to be trustworthy. Loyal, helpful, fri belt, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

Is this kind comment your Good Turn for today?


It is my second of the day. I don't always get one in so it's good to make up for them when possible.

Yeah, never hurts to be prepared.


Helps keep me physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.

:D



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