Indifferent towards my coworkers

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Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:44 pm

Hi everyone,

I am a paralegal at a v20 firm. Our firm, like many others, hosts staff events to promote a friendly environment. The thing is, I am indifferent towards my coworkers, and would rather work than attend these events. The HR dept is always questioning my absence at these events. I'm starting law school this fall, and can't wait to hand in my two weeks notice. However, in the event that I would need a reference letter from my employer, am I shooting myself in the foot by not being more social? I do my job well, and get along with everyone, I just don't attend these mind numbing events.

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:53 pm

I wouldn't say you are shooting yourself in the foot. It is still very likely that you could get a reference from someone at the firm. However, often it is easier to get a reference when someone knows you better and that is one of the things that is achieved by attending social or networking events.

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SmokeytheBear

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby SmokeytheBear » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi everyone,

I am a paralegal at a v20 firm. Our firm, like many others, hosts staff events to promote a friendly environment. The thing is, I am indifferent towards my coworkers, and would rather work than attend these events. The HR dept is always questioning my absence at these events. I'm starting law school this fall, and can't wait to hand in my two weeks notice. However, in the event that I would need a reference letter from my employer, am I shooting myself in the foot by not being more social? I do my job well, and get along with everyone, I just don't attend these mind numbing events.


I wouldn't sweat it. While you do need to list the employer on your resume, for future jobs if you are asked to give three references, you can choose who those references are. Likewise, due to the nature of employment law, if the V20 you worked at is called during your background check, they are limited in what they can say. Similarly on your bar application (at least in CA), if this former employer is sent the survey, they are asked questions about your job performance and whether you were terminated, acted unethically, etc.

Be cordial, just don't be a dick.

lolwat

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby lolwat » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi everyone,

I am a paralegal at a v20 firm. Our firm, like many others, hosts staff events to promote a friendly environment. The thing is, I am indifferent towards my coworkers, and would rather work than attend these events. The HR dept is always questioning my absence at these events. I'm starting law school this fall, and can't wait to hand in my two weeks notice. However, in the event that I would need a reference letter from my employer, am I shooting myself in the foot by not being more social? I do my job well, and get along with everyone, I just don't attend these mind numbing events.


I don't think it will affect your getting a reference from someone at the firm, but I would strongly suggest not doing similar things once you do start law school and go back into a firm as a lawyer. You don't have to like everyone, or even anyone. You don't have to go out of your way to be social. But going out of your way to not attend firm-hosted events where HR (or anyone else) questions your absence will almost never lead anywhere good.

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby 1styearlateral » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:09 pm

The real question is why aren't you networking like hell at that firm so that, come 1L summer, you have a shot at getting asked to come back to work. I get it, maybe you don't like it there or want to be there (seeing-how-the-sausage-is-made syndrome), but it's better to have options. Plus, you could strike out, have bad 1L grades, etc. and this is your only real shot at getting a decent job. You should leave that firm for law school with attorneys saying "OP, pls come back" or "OP, I know so-and-so at x law firm, let me give them a call for you re: 2L SA." If they don't know you or don't like you then they're not going to do that. Sometimes you have to deal with people you don't like, and being indifferent about your coworkers is much better than loathing them because they're dicks.

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby Nebby » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:09 pm

This is a no-offer in the making.

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star fox

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby star fox » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:15 pm

Nebby wrote:This is a no-offer in the making.

Definitely don't do this as 2L summer associate, OP

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:17 pm

1styearlateral wrote:The real question is why aren't you networking like hell at that firm so that, come 1L summer, you have a shot at getting asked to come back to work. I get it, maybe you don't like it there or want to be there (seeing-how-the-sausage-is-made syndrome), but it's better to have options. Plus, you could strike out, have bad 1L grades, etc. and this is your only real shot at getting a decent job. You should leave that firm for law school with attorneys saying "OP, pls come back" or "OP, I know so-and-so at x law firm, let me give them a call for you re: 2L SA." If they don't know you or don't like you then they're not going to do that. Sometimes you have to deal with people you don't like, and being indifferent about your coworkers is much better than loathing them because they're dicks.



Op here. I absolutely agree with what you, and everyone else is saying. The thing is, this isn't a networking opportunity. These events are only open to staff, not to the attorneys. I work well with the attorneys, and can definitely try to get an SA. I'm just wondering if I am hurting my chances of getting a reference from management/HR if I have to get one. Looks like I can just name a few attorneys on employment apps instead of HR? Thanks everyone.

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby lolwat » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:The real question is why aren't you networking like hell at that firm so that, come 1L summer, you have a shot at getting asked to come back to work. I get it, maybe you don't like it there or want to be there (seeing-how-the-sausage-is-made syndrome), but it's better to have options. Plus, you could strike out, have bad 1L grades, etc. and this is your only real shot at getting a decent job. You should leave that firm for law school with attorneys saying "OP, pls come back" or "OP, I know so-and-so at x law firm, let me give them a call for you re: 2L SA." If they don't know you or don't like you then they're not going to do that. Sometimes you have to deal with people you don't like, and being indifferent about your coworkers is much better than loathing them because they're dicks.



Op here. I absolutely agree with what you, and everyone else is saying. The thing is, this isn't a networking opportunity. These events are only open to staff, not to the attorneys. I work well with the attorneys, and can definitely try to get an SA. I'm just wondering if I am hurting my chances of getting a reference from management/HR if I have to get one. Looks like I can just name a few attorneys on employment apps instead of HR? Thanks everyone.


Lawyers aren't the only people that matter at a firm. I don't know what the turnover rate is like at your firm, but isn't it very likely that these are some of the same people you'll be working with if you rejoin the firm as a SA/lawyer down the line?

I know these aren't the question(s) being asked, but seriously, trying to be helpful on this forum at a time when biglaw/an otherwise good job is becoming harder and harder to get.

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:The real question is why aren't you networking like hell at that firm so that, come 1L summer, you have a shot at getting asked to come back to work. I get it, maybe you don't like it there or want to be there (seeing-how-the-sausage-is-made syndrome), but it's better to have options. Plus, you could strike out, have bad 1L grades, etc. and this is your only real shot at getting a decent job. You should leave that firm for law school with attorneys saying "OP, pls come back" or "OP, I know so-and-so at x law firm, let me give them a call for you re: 2L SA." If they don't know you or don't like you then they're not going to do that. Sometimes you have to deal with people you don't like, and being indifferent about your coworkers is much better than loathing them because they're dicks.



Op here. I absolutely agree with what you, and everyone else is saying. The thing is, this isn't a networking opportunity. These events are only open to staff, not to the attorneys. I work well with the attorneys, and can definitely try to get an SA. I'm just wondering if I am hurting my chances of getting a reference from management/HR if I have to get one. Looks like I can just name a few attorneys on employment apps instead of HR? Thanks everyone.


I got no-offered because I pissed off a couple of paralegals. No one said anything to me until my last day. Don't underestimate the importance of the staff.

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:The real question is why aren't you networking like hell at that firm so that, come 1L summer, you have a shot at getting asked to come back to work. I get it, maybe you don't like it there or want to be there (seeing-how-the-sausage-is-made syndrome), but it's better to have options. Plus, you could strike out, have bad 1L grades, etc. and this is your only real shot at getting a decent job. You should leave that firm for law school with attorneys saying "OP, pls come back" or "OP, I know so-and-so at x law firm, let me give them a call for you re: 2L SA." If they don't know you or don't like you then they're not going to do that. Sometimes you have to deal with people you don't like, and being indifferent about your coworkers is much better than loathing them because they're dicks.



Op here. I absolutely agree with what you, and everyone else is saying. The thing is, this isn't a networking opportunity. These events are only open to staff, not to the attorneys. I work well with the attorneys, and can definitely try to get an SA. I'm just wondering if I am hurting my chances of getting a reference from management/HR if I have to get one. Looks like I can just name a few attorneys on employment apps instead of HR? Thanks everyone.


I got no-offered because I pissed off a couple of paralegals. No one said anything to me until my last day. Don't underestimate the importance of the staff.


Op again,thanks for the insight. For those asking, turn over is high for both staff and lawyers at my firm. If I were to rejoin, I would be at a different office (same state as my law school).

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:04 pm

I completely understand and relate to OP - with the exception that my firm has next to no social events and I know they hire one 2L once every 3-5 years.

There's indifference of not going out to social events and then there's not talking to or not being friendly to your co-workers. If you do well on your work evaluations and the attorneys you work with like you, it doesn't matter that much if you're social after work. (Some people live far from the office, some play sports, etc.) However, if people keep asking "Why don't you come to x event" or "Why don't you come to any of them?" then you can find a creative and nice way to answer without saying, "I'm leaving in less than four months and literally don't care."

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby Phil Brooks » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:07 pm

Ugh. The "staff don't matter" attitude is appalling. Even if they have zero input on hiring, manners cost nothing.

The preftigious undergraduate school I had the misfortune of being suckered into attending put out pamphlets during senior year advising us on how to do job interviews. One of the pieces of advice was, "Be nice to everyone you meet--the receptionist, the door man, the custodian, everyone." Sounds good, right? Encouraging us to be good human beings. But then the next sentence said, "After all, you never know who can influence a hiring decision." The implication being, treat these plebians well only insofar as they can help you.

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Pokemon

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby Pokemon » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:50 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:Ugh. The "staff don't matter" attitude is appalling. Even if they have zero input on hiring, manners cost nothing.

The preftigious undergraduate school I had the misfortune of being suckered into attending put out pamphlets during senior year advising us on how to do job interviews. One of the pieces of advice was, "Be nice to everyone you meet--the receptionist, the door man, the custodian, everyone." Sounds good, right? Encouraging us to be good human beings. But then the next sentence said, "After all, you never know who can influence a hiring decision." The implication being, treat these plebians well only insofar as they can help you.



While agree with what you are saying the vibe I got from op is not that they are rude to staff but that they do not care about attending these events, which is something that even the nicest people some times find it a chore.

To op, unless you are being bizarrely anti-social, what you are describing does not matter and you are not shooting yourself on the foot.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Indifferent towards my coworkers

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:03 pm

OP, 0Ls can't ask questions in this forum, and I can't move this to Ask a Law Student/Grad because there's no anon function there, so I'm locking this. Feel free to ask again there if you need more input.



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