how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

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Pragmatic Gun

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not a flame. I didn't want this to be a "chance me" thread. My question was how much of a hit I (or anyone else) should expect to take from not really having great work experience going through OCI. It seems like the answer is some but not a lot?

What kind of job are you looking for? Something unicorn like or biglaw NYC?


I'd be fine with NYC, SF, or Chicago. I am having trouble parsing the sarcasm from the real feedback in this thread. Opinions seem to range from "you'll settle for Cravath" to "you'll be at a real disadvantage over your peers." Could people with actual experience (personal or anecdotal) weigh in on the effect of being k-jd?


The reason behind the sarcasm is that you have the ideal position for big law hiring: top 15% at YHS. I think a lot of people mean that your lack of work experience is barely going to affect you. Good luck at OCI, OP.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:03 pm

BigZuck wrote:I don't think being K-JD will be your biggest hurdle at OCI.

But just for fun: What bad outcome from OCI are you fantasizing about? How bad do you think it's going to go for you?

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:04 pm

Pomeranian wrote:GRADES >> everything.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:07 pm

BigZuck wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I don't think being K-JD will be your biggest hurdle at OCI.

But just for fun: What bad outcome from OCI are you fantasizing about? How bad do you think it's going to go for you?


He's scared of working at a firm like Sullivan and Cromwell or god forbid Clifford Chance. /s

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not a flame. I didn't want this to be a "chance me" thread. My question was how much of a hit I (or anyone else) should expect to take from not really having great work experience going through OCI. It seems like the answer is some but not a lot?

What kind of job are you looking for? Something unicorn like or biglaw NYC?


I'd be fine with NYC, SF, or Chicago. I am having trouble parsing the sarcasm from the real feedback in this thread. Opinions seem to range from "you'll settle for Cravath" to "you'll be at a real disadvantage over your peers." Could people with actual experience (personal or anecdotal) weigh in on the effect of being k-jd?


I know multiple people at my T1 (~30) in your position who had multiple V10/15 offers. People are being sarcastic because assuming you don't try to lick the interviewers you will have your pick of most if not all firms in those markets. If you'd only settle for Wachtell, then maybe not, but otherwise you'll be fine. I wasn't K-JD, but I only took 1 year off and worked in sales and ended up with multiple V10 offers in those markets.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Npret » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not a flame. I didn't want this to be a "chance me" thread. My question was how much of a hit I (or anyone else) should expect to take from not really having great work experience going through OCI. It seems like the answer is some but not a lot?

What kind of job are you looking for? Something unicorn like or biglaw NYC?


I'd be fine with NYC, SF, or Chicago. I am having trouble parsing the sarcasm from the real feedback in this thread. Opinions seem to range from "you'll settle for Cravath" to "you'll be at a real disadvantage over your peers." Could people with actual experience (personal or anecdotal) weigh in on the effect of being k-jd?


You are in a fantastic position grades and school wise. That you don't realize that without asking the internet is troubling, unless you are the troll that keeps asking similar questions.

I asked what job you want to get because some public service and other jobs will care about experience.

If you just want a regular biglaw job your issue might be convincing firms that you actually want to work there because you should have access to many other options. Also you might seem young and too academic. That's the worst thing I can think might possibly happen to you at OCI. There is no reason you shouldn't get multiple offers and have your pick of jobs.

You need to do as many practice interviews as you possibly can and work hard on it over the summer. Even with stellar credentials like yours you still have to do a decent job of interviewing.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:21 pm

Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not a flame. I didn't want this to be a "chance me" thread. My question was how much of a hit I (or anyone else) should expect to take from not really having great work experience going through OCI. It seems like the answer is some but not a lot?

What kind of job are you looking for? Something unicorn like or biglaw NYC?


I'd be fine with NYC, SF, or Chicago. I am having trouble parsing the sarcasm from the real feedback in this thread. Opinions seem to range from "you'll settle for Cravath" to "you'll be at a real disadvantage over your peers." Could people with actual experience (personal or anecdotal) weigh in on the effect of being k-jd?


You are in a fantastic position grades and school wise. That you don't realize that without asking the internet is troubling, unless you are the troll that keeps asking similar questions.

I asked what job you want to get because some public service and other jobs will care about experience.

If you just want a regular biglaw job your issue might be convincing firms that you actually want to work there because you should have access to many other options. Also you might seem young and too academic. That's the worst thing I can think might possibly happen.

You need to do as many practice interviews as you possibly can and work hard on it over the summer. Even with stellar credentials like yours you still have to do a decent job of interviewing.


These are basically my concerns. I'm worried that I'll end up in a trench where I'm culled from top firms for work experience reasons and culled from lower ranked firms for yield protection reasons. I'm also worried that I might be viewed as a flight risk.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Npret » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not a flame. I didn't want this to be a "chance me" thread. My question was how much of a hit I (or anyone else) should expect to take from not really having great work experience going through OCI. It seems like the answer is some but not a lot?

What kind of job are you looking for? Something unicorn like or biglaw NYC?


I'd be fine with NYC, SF, or Chicago. I am having trouble parsing the sarcasm from the real feedback in this thread. Opinions seem to range from "you'll settle for Cravath" to "you'll be at a real disadvantage over your peers." Could people with actual experience (personal or anecdotal) weigh in on the effect of being k-jd?


You are in a fantastic position grades and school wise. That you don't realize that without asking the internet is troubling, unless you are the troll that keeps asking similar questions.

I asked what job you want to get because some public service and other jobs will care about experience.

If you just want a regular biglaw job your issue might be convincing firms that you actually want to work there because you should have access to many other options. Also you might seem young and too academic. That's the worst thing I can think might possibly happen.

You need to do as many practice interviews as you possibly can and work hard on it over the summer. Even with stellar credentials like yours you still have to do a decent job of interviewing.


These are basically my concerns. I'm worried that I'll end up in a trench where I'm culled from top firms for work experience reasons and culled from lower ranked firms for yield protection reasons. I'm also worried that I might be viewed as a flight risk.


Firms don't have yield protect in the same sense as law schools. If a biglaw firm likes you they will give you an offer. They don't have trouble filling their classes so they won't care if you go somewhere else.

I think you can overcome all of those concerns with a solid interview. Just try to practice with people who take it seriously and won't act like you will automatically get a job. Even if it turns out to not be absolutely necessary, interview practice will help you in the future too.

Also firms don't care if you leave. Biglaw hires expecting people to move on. Don't worry about the flight risk part so much unless you are targeting a small market.

One more thing- bid correctly.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:40 pm

Non sarcastic answer.

Because you are at YHS and your grades are stellar and you're targeting generic big law you should have no issues. No work experience may affect you marginally in comparison with other candidate but the prestige of your school and the strength of your grades will likely outweigh any disadvantage.

Where the lack of work experience may actually hurt you may be in your interviewing skills. If you haven't ever really interviewed before and are really awkward or weird grades and prestige can only do so much. Practice interviewing as much as you can and you'll be fine.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Non sarcastic answer.

Because you are at YHS and your grades are stellar and you're targeting generic big law you should have no issues. No work experience may affect you marginally in comparison with other candidate but the prestige of your school and the strength of your grades will likely outweigh any disadvantage.

Where the lack of work experience may actually hurt you may be in your interviewing skills. If you haven't ever really interviewed before and are really awkward or weird grades and prestige can only do so much. Practice interviewing as much as you can and you'll be fine.


Thanks for this.
What does it mean to "bid correctly" in this situation? Target major markets and have some lower-ranked firms too?

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby lymenheimer » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Non sarcastic answer.

Because you are at YHS and your grades are stellar and you're targeting generic big law you should have no issues. No work experience may affect you marginally in comparison with other candidate but the prestige of your school and the strength of your grades will likely outweigh any disadvantage.

Where the lack of work experience may actually hurt you may be in your interviewing skills. If you haven't ever really interviewed before and are really awkward or weird grades and prestige can only do so much. Practice interviewing as much as you can and you'll be fine.


Thanks for this.
What does it mean to "bid correctly" in this situation? Target major markets and have some lower-ranked firms too?


TIL YHS doesn't have OCS to help their students through OCI

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Non sarcastic answer.

Because you are at YHS and your grades are stellar and you're targeting generic big law you should have no issues. No work experience may affect you marginally in comparison with other candidate but the prestige of your school and the strength of your grades will likely outweigh any disadvantage.

Where the lack of work experience may actually hurt you may be in your interviewing skills. If you haven't ever really interviewed before and are really awkward or weird grades and prestige can only do so much. Practice interviewing as much as you can and you'll be fine.


Thanks for this.
What does it mean to "bid correctly" in this situation? Target major markets and have some lower-ranked firms too?


Oof. Okay. I don't mind answering your questions, because everyone asks them at some point, but not to be rude but based on your thread and questions your KJDness is really apparent, so PLEASE do mock interviews, and when you think you've done enough, do some more.

I have no idea how bidding at YHS works because I'm at a TTTT14 but OCI first round interviews are given out based on student bidding for them. Each school does this differently, you're going to want to talk to your career services office to do this. Your career services office will help you craft your list and approve or deny it.

When people bid incorrectly they either bid way outside their GPA means, or they rank the firms in a way that means they'll wind up with few or no first round interviews. That's what you're trying to avoid. How to avoid this depends entirely on how the bidding and matching process is done at your school and you want to talk to career services for that.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Npret » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:11 pm

People sometimes bid aggressively because they feel their stats can get them any job. Maybe they target DC or a small market exclusively and then don't get offers. I don't know if that applies to you because of you stats but don't assume a job.(which yo obviously aren't)

Don't worry about it now. You can always post your bidlist here be get some input if you are really worried.

I would say look for class size and offer rate over firm ranking. Keep some 100% offer NYC firms with large class sizes in the mix.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:55 pm

lymenheimer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Non sarcastic answer.

Because you are at YHS and your grades are stellar and you're targeting generic big law you should have no issues. No work experience may affect you marginally in comparison with other candidate but the prestige of your school and the strength of your grades will likely outweigh any disadvantage.

Where the lack of work experience may actually hurt you may be in your interviewing skills. If you haven't ever really interviewed before and are really awkward or weird grades and prestige can only do so much. Practice interviewing as much as you can and you'll be fine.


Thanks for this.
What does it mean to "bid correctly" in this situation? Target major markets and have some lower-ranked firms too?


TIL YHS doesn't have OCS to help their students through OCI


I have spoken to OCS, but they are generally optimistic and TLS is a better source for tough love.
Thank you for the suggestions, everyone.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:57 pm

Are no student groups that could help you out? A lot of of the students groups at my law school had panels throughout the year about the OCI process, the bidding process, etc.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:02 pm

Pragmatic Gun wrote:Are no student groups that could help you out? A lot of of the students groups at my law school had panels throughout the year about the OCI process, the bidding process, etc.


Yes. I'm not totally in the dark about the process. On the other hand, I believe there is some selection bias in the composition of these panels. I don't want to come to the realization after OCI is over that I was too optimistic of my chances.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:38 pm

Serious answer- You'll make a fine SullCrom associate. Don't worry.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:40 pm

BigZuck wrote:Serious answer- You'll make a fine SullCrom associate. Don't worry.


We don't know that OP is a WASP.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:41 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Serious answer- You'll make a fine SullCrom associate. Don't worry.


We don't know that OP is a WASP.


OP, how many minorities do you know? Does your family own a vacation home in either Kennebunkport or Martha's Vineyard?

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby UVA2B » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Pragmatic Gun wrote:Are no student groups that could help you out? A lot of of the students groups at my law school had panels throughout the year about the OCI process, the bidding process, etc.


Yes. I'm not totally in the dark about the process. On the other hand, I believe there is some selection bias in the composition of these panels. I don't want to come to the realization after OCI is over that I was too optimistic of my chances.


Go talk to the Law Review people. They're in the same grade strata as you and can probably help you coordinate your bid list to get ~37 offers.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby foregetaboutdre » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:21 pm

How does OCI work at HYS as a curious T20er? I don't think it's preselect, so do you just bid with your resume and grades and get whatever (without submitting a cover letter).

Sounds much less time consuming than writing 50 cover letters for firms to get preselected (or luck out with a 1 lottery pick)

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Npret » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:26 pm

Pragmatic Gun wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Serious answer- You'll make a fine SullCrom associate. Don't worry.


We don't know that OP is a WASP.


OP, how many minorities do you know? Does your family own a vacation home in either Kennebunkport or Martha's Vineyard?

Rude.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:27 pm

Npret wrote:
Pragmatic Gun wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Serious answer- You'll make a fine SullCrom associate. Don't worry.


We don't know that OP is a WASP.


OP, how many minorities do you know? Does your family own a vacation home in either Kennebunkport or Martha's Vineyard?

Rude.

REally?

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:29 pm

foregetaboutdre wrote:How does OCI work at HYS as a curious T20er? I don't think it's preselect, so do you just bid with your resume and grades and get whatever (without submitting a cover letter).

Sounds much less time consuming than writing 50 cover letters for firms to get preselected (or luck out with a 1 lottery pick)


To my knowledge it's random lottery based on where you rank the firm, where others rank it, and how many interview slots there are for the first interview.

So no grades or resume or anything, firms get that right before interview and get grades, ect. for call backs.

Other T14s do bidding like this too.

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Re: how much will being k-jd hurt during OCI?

Postby foregetaboutdre » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
foregetaboutdre wrote:How does OCI work at HYS as a curious T20er? I don't think it's preselect, so do you just bid with your resume and grades and get whatever (without submitting a cover letter).

Sounds much less time consuming than writing 50 cover letters for firms to get preselected (or luck out with a 1 lottery pick)


To my knowledge it's random lottery based on where you rank the firm, where others rank it, and how many interview slots there are for the first interview.

So no grades or resume or anything, firms get that right before interview and get grades, ect. for call backs.

Other T14s do bidding like this too.


Thanks. Sorry to derail the thread. Lmao at me churning out cover letters like no tomorrow. Good luck!



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