Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

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Rahviveh

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Rahviveh » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:08 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:why would a partner waste their time to physically come to your office? they would call you and tell you to come up. its on the associate to go to the partners office.

That's generally how it works at my firm too, but I'd say at least once a week a partner stops by to say hi or something. That a partner has literally never visited your office is pretty fucking weird.


you must work at a shitty firm where partners dont have enough work to do

Yes, I'm sure that's it. Another possible explanation is that you’re so unlikable that no one wants to talk to you, but you’re so charming on TLS that I just can’t believe that’s true.


i wouldnt be proud that some shithead partner likes you

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Mr. Peanutbutter » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:10 pm

Rahviveh wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:why would a partner waste their time to physically come to your office? they would call you and tell you to come up. its on the associate to go to the partners office.

That's generally how it works at my firm too, but I'd say at least once a week a partner stops by to say hi or something. That a partner has literally never visited your office is pretty fucking weird.


you must work at a shitty firm where partners dont have enough work to do


??? I sit between my fav partner and the group practice leader and both work way harder than anyone I've ever met, and it's not unusual for them to pop in and ask about a case I'm on, especially if it's interesting and there's a hearing or something big coming up. There are also a lot of little things that are way more efficient to just say "hey, can you X done?" than to email.

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Rahviveh

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Rahviveh » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:12 pm

Mlk&Ckies wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:why would a partner waste their time to physically come to your office? they would call you and tell you to come up. its on the associate to go to the partners office.

That's generally how it works at my firm too, but I'd say at least once a week a partner stops by to say hi or something. That a partner has literally never visited your office is pretty fucking weird.


you must work at a shitty firm where partners dont have enough work to do


??? I sit between my fav partner and the group practice leader and both work way harder than anyone I've ever met, and it's not unusual for them to pop in and ask about a case I'm on, especially if it's interesting and there's a hearing or something big coming up. There are also a lot of little things that are way more efficient to just say "hey, can you X done?" than to email.


yeah, i dont sit near any of the partners i work with. i imagine if i did they might drop by. mygeneral point is though taht i dont think theyd do so for work reasons because theyd want you to go to them.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Mr. Peanutbutter » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:13 pm

oh yeah, if I were like four doors further away I would probably never see them in my own office

there are juniors though that more than one partner/senior has been like "is X enjoying it here? I never see them around"

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby jrf12886 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:26 pm

The only time partners came to my office was to invite me to join them for drinks. Otherwise, I got emails and, very rarely, calls. Also, i forwarded my office phone to my cell if I was going to be out in the middle of the day. I never had a problem. One time a partner emailed me and asked me to come by his office to join an impromtu conference call. I just replied that I wasn't in the office and asked if I could dial in. It was fine.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby TLSModBot » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:28 pm

Mlk&Ckies wrote:oh yeah, if I were like four doors further away I would probably never see them in my own office

there are juniors though that more than one partner/senior has been like "is X enjoying it here? I never see them around"
probably a solid quarter of my class plays pretty fast and loose with the whole "showing up" thing. I don't think they'll be around for more than a year or two.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby lolwat » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:11 pm

rpupkin and Capitol_Idea has it right, here. Not being in your office isn't a problem until it's a problem, but when it is one, you're not given a pass just because it's never been an issue before.

Just some additional comments before I leave the office at 7pm instead of sticking around in case a partner needs me.

why would a partner waste their time to physically come to your office? they would call you and tell you to come up. its on the associate to go to the partners office.


Not everyone is in this boat as people already mentioned. My office is RIGHT NEXT to one of the partner's offices, and we happen to have a lot of cases we work on together. We walk 10 steps to stop by each others' offices all the damn time to talk about cases (and occasionally to shoot the shit, but that usually happens as part of talking about cases). Of course, my office is also on the entire opposite side of another partner's office, so while I have some cases with them too I don't see them anywhere near as often. The other thing has to do with phones, every firm does it differently I'm sure, but sometimes the partners don't have our cell numbers handy for whatever reason so they call the office when they're in court and need something. So even without dropping by, if they call your office phone and you aren't there, that's a problem, too.

i wouldnt be proud that some shithead partner likes you


Partners liking an associate is how that associate stays at the firm and gets work rather than having to hunt around for shit doc review projects, how the associate gets market or above-market bonuses at some firms, and potentially becomes partner years down the road. Of course, if you don't give a fuck about any of that and you're just chilling at the firm for 2 years for big ass paychecks and skipping right out of there after that, well then, of course you also won't give a fuck if you're not in the office when a partner needs to talk to you.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby TLSModBot » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:17 pm

Like 5% of my work thus far has come from random associates/partners in my group. 55% has come from a single partner that seems to have taken a shine to me (and we chat and shoot the shit, it usually by phone thankfully), and the remaining 40% from a senior associate who likes me. I don't see how you get work unless you've got a higher-up benefactor.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:01 pm

Without wasting any more time going back and forth on this, it's going to depend entirely on your firm. If you're in a group where partners are dopping into your office regularly you need to be in the office. If they aren't, and nobody cares if you're there, then leave. Adjust accordingly if someone gets annoyed that you aren't there.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Bluem_11 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:18 pm

I'm a patent attorney so I don't know if this applies to every biglaw practice, but a lot of training is done at firms I've been at by partners who have to go over specific details with you hands-on in every case you do in the first 6-12 months. My main training partners would literally pop into my office 1-2 times a day if there was a case we were working on and we were up close to a deadline. I wasn't there once b/c forgot to tell people about an appointment and it became a minor headache.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby rpupkin » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Without wasting any more time going back and forth on this, it's going to depend entirely on your firm. If you're in a group where partners are dopping into your office regularly you need to be in the office. If they aren't, and nobody cares if you're there, then leave. Adjust accordingly if someone gets annoyed that you aren't there.

This is all well and good. But, again, the point is that it's really difficult for a first-year to make this kind of assessment based on a few months at an office.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:36 am

I've only had like two partners who came by my office and I much prefer the ones who don't. They've got the bigger offices for a reason, if they want to talk I can come by. But this is just an office culture thing. It has nothing to do with being liked or not.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby elendinel » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:44 am

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Without wasting any more time going back and forth on this, it's going to depend entirely on your firm. If you're in a group where partners are dopping into your office regularly you need to be in the office. If they aren't, and nobody cares if you're there, then leave. Adjust accordingly if someone gets annoyed that you aren't there.

This is all well and good. But, again, the point is that it's really difficult for a first-year to make this kind of assessment based on a few months at an office.


Agreed. Once you pretty much know where your work is coming from for the next few years and you know how those partners operate, this becomes a different story. But until then you don't want to risk closing too many doors by being out of sight, out of mind too frequently.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby trebekismyhero » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:05 am

Capitol_Idea wrote:Like 5% of my work thus far has come from random associates/partners in my group. 55% has come from a single partner that seems to have taken a shine to me (and we chat and shoot the shit, it usually by phone thankfully), and the remaining 40% from a senior associate who likes me. I don't see how you get work unless you've got a higher-up benefactor.


If you have an assigning partner system. But agreed even within that kind of system it is a lot easier for me to get work now that I have a couple partners that like me.

As for the whole discussion, I think the answer is try to be there 9-5 your first year or so, after you have enough goodwill built in with partners you can get away with working from home a lot more.

Also, at least at my office, I have noticed that face time with lit is a lot less than corporate.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:18 am

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Without wasting any more time going back and forth on this, it's going to depend entirely on your firm. If you're in a group where partners are dopping into your office regularly you need to be in the office. If they aren't, and nobody cares if you're there, then leave. Adjust accordingly if someone gets annoyed that you aren't there.

This is all well and good. But, again, the point is that it's really difficult for a first-year to make this kind of assessment based on a few months at an office.


I'm a first year, I go home early and work from there. In my experience, it really hasn't been that difficult to feel things out and adjust if needed.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby ballouttacontrol » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My NYC biglaw firm doesn't give a shit at all. On of my favorite things about working at a huge office, tbh.

ETA: I usually get there between 1030 and 1115 with some days completely working from home. Nobody cares. And I'm a first year.


Same in my non-NYC office. Just get your shit done and be responsive at all times and you're good

Some of the shit ITT reminds me why I'm so happy not to be in NY.

I will often get trashed on a Thurs, sleep in on Fri and work from home the whole day, totally cool. Just stay on top of your calendar and your docket. It is very very normal for half the Juniors to be out part or all of the day on Fri or to take a day off to go do wtv, literally nobody cares

Also, when partners wanna talk, they always call or email, both of which can be directly forwarded to my cell. I also sit at least a 3 minute walk from any partners office I work with

Long story short, find a firm that matches your personality. I like my job a reasonable amount but if I worked with some of the people ITT I would shoot myself

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Nebby » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:12 pm

Damn Rahviveh is insufferable

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:41 pm

My firm (NYC biglaw) it's just get your work done, but if you're working with someone senior to you and they're in the office then obviously you should be as well. I've only had two or three nights where I am at the office past 10pm. I typically come at 9am and leave at 9/930pm when busy (which is typical) or 6/7pm when not busy (thankfully, the last two weeks).

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Pokemon » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:17 pm

I show up at 11:30 all the time when I have no work. I think i will start showing up later or not showing up at all in the future. Of course I am available via phone. My buddy shows up even later or not at all and he is inspiring me to do the no show. However, I am in a busy practice and often bill over 250 so I doubt anyone thinks where is poke at.

Also, regarding working from Hawaii or whatevs. At least in corporate, more often than not, there is too much work to efficiently do it from anywhere but the office. I mean your phone rings non-stop, tens of emails an hour, you need to use two screens to compare docs while emailing and multitasking, you need fast internet because vpn slows your one connection etc.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:23 pm

Totally depends. Right now I work for folks who want to leave at 6:00 or earlier each day. So no. But then there's that one or two partners in the group that want to call you or meet at 8:30 or whatever. You'll work for them eventually and it'll suck.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby lawstoodent » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Without wasting any more time going back and forth on this, it's going to depend entirely on your firm. If you're in a group where partners are dopping into your office regularly you need to be in the office. If they aren't, and nobody cares if you're there, then leave. Adjust accordingly if someone gets annoyed that you aren't there.

This is all well and good. But, again, the point is that it's really difficult for a first-year to make this kind of assessment based on a few months at an office.


I'm a first year, I go home early and work from there. In my experience, it really hasn't been that difficult to feel things out and adjust if needed.


Same. 1st yr and I come in before 10 and can generally leave any time after 6. Ive learned to adjust accordingly based on whether I have an ongoing matter that requires in person follow-up, whether the partners I work for are even in the office, etc. It's not that hard to figure out and if you're in an office where your partner travels a lot, it matters a lot less. I see the partner I get 75% of my work from maybe once or twice a month.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Johann » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Without wasting any more time going back and forth on this, it's going to depend entirely on your firm. If you're in a group where partners are dopping into your office regularly you need to be in the office. If they aren't, and nobody cares if you're there, then leave. Adjust accordingly if someone gets annoyed that you aren't there.

This is all well and good. But, again, the point is that it's really difficult for a first-year to make this kind of assessment based on a few months at an office.


I'm a first year, I go home early and work from there. In my experience, it really hasn't been that difficult to feel things out and adjust if needed.


yeah my first year i probably regularly put in about 30 hours in the office and no more. id leave on fridays around 2, get in 9:30-10 most days, and leave at 5 sharp everyday. i learned when partners would be in and out of office from secretaries and worked from home those days (about 2 days a month). if youre observant and smart, you can learn this stuff within the first month.

theres tons of places you could be when someone wants you (taking a shit, out at lunch, in a conference room, in anothers office). they arent going to care/ask.

its just about your level of comfort in the chance someone comes by your office and you arent there. and your ability to get ready if you get a voicemail/email for an urgent project.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:02 pm

How does this work with the free dinner and car ride home if you stay late? If you're working on something at the office but could have been working on it from home, will the firm care/disallow your free meal/car ride home?

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How does this work with the free dinner and car ride home if you stay late? If you're working on something at the office but could have been working on it from home, will the firm care/disallow your free meal/car ride home?


Yes you will not get dinner or a car when working at home (at least at my firm). While these are great to have, almost everyone would rather be at home with their loved ones/chilling and drinking a beer.

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Re: Does biglaw really care how early you arrive/leave as long as the work gets done?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:22 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My NYC biglaw firm doesn't give a shit at all. On of my favorite things about working at a huge office, tbh.

ETA: I usually get there between 1030 and 1115 with some days completely working from home. Nobody cares. And I'm a first year.

Yeah, no one cares until a partner wants to talk to you about an "emergency" at 10 a.m. and you're not in your office yet. The point that many are making is that a "be in the office when you feel like it" strategy generally works great until it doesn't. When you're junior, it's risky to get too relaxed about showing up late or leaving early.


Quoted anon. I agree so I try to be there or able to get there by 1030. I'm less than a fifteen minute walk away from work though, so that's probably helpful.

ETA: I'm also mostly on huge matters so don't get much direct and unscheduled from partners.



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