Getting Fired

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ur_hero

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby ur_hero » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP im sorry! Still in school so I don't have any life experience to give you but in terms of the emotional stress and feeling hopeless i hear you! People are always here for you and sooner than you think you will look back on this situation and say that made me resilient! don't blame yourself for anytime in the past. Always forward. Simply take that horrible work experience and make it your motivation to do and get better! You got this! As someone who struggled with depression and anxiety in young adulthood I can say it truly does get better so much so you will look at your life and say how did I get here.



Side note this thread is terrifying me from biglaw. If anyone wants to pm me and warn me of which firms to never work for in biglaw after I graduate I would not mind in all seriousness I have overcome my mental health struggles no need to go back there


They all suck and they all fire people.


That's honestly horrible and not encouraging. I am feeling public service more and more.


All are not horrible. It can happen at any (and be largely outside your control), but on the other hand - there is a lot you can do to minimize these chances both in the firm you pick, the practice group you're in, and how you perform once you are there.

Slight bit of optimism, although that is not to discount the fact that many do indeed suck hard from what I've heard.

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Desert Fox

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:23 pm

ur_hero wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP im sorry! Still in school so I don't have any life experience to give you but in terms of the emotional stress and feeling hopeless i hear you! People are always here for you and sooner than you think you will look back on this situation and say that made me resilient! don't blame yourself for anytime in the past. Always forward. Simply take that horrible work experience and make it your motivation to do and get better! You got this! As someone who struggled with depression and anxiety in young adulthood I can say it truly does get better so much so you will look at your life and say how did I get here.



Side note this thread is terrifying me from biglaw. If anyone wants to pm me and warn me of which firms to never work for in biglaw after I graduate I would not mind in all seriousness I have overcome my mental health struggles no need to go back there


They all suck and they all fire people.


That's honestly horrible and not encouraging. I am feeling public service more and more.


All are not horrible. It can happen at any (and be largely outside your control), but on the other hand - there is a lot you can do to minimize these chances both in the firm you pick, the practice group you're in, and how you perform once you are there.

Slight bit of optimism, although that is not to discount the fact that many do indeed suck hard from what I've heard.


You haven't even been in long enough get pass the bar yet. Wait, now is about the time it starts to suck.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

ur_hero

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby ur_hero » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:17 am

Desert Fox wrote:
ur_hero wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP im sorry! Still in school so I don't have any life experience to give you but in terms of the emotional stress and feeling hopeless i hear you! People are always here for you and sooner than you think you will look back on this situation and say that made me resilient! don't blame yourself for anytime in the past. Always forward. Simply take that horrible work experience and make it your motivation to do and get better! You got this! As someone who struggled with depression and anxiety in young adulthood I can say it truly does get better so much so you will look at your life and say how did I get here.



Side note this thread is terrifying me from biglaw. If anyone wants to pm me and warn me of which firms to never work for in biglaw after I graduate I would not mind in all seriousness I have overcome my mental health struggles no need to go back there


They all suck and they all fire people.


That's honestly horrible and not encouraging. I am feeling public service more and more.


All are not horrible. It can happen at any (and be largely outside your control), but on the other hand - there is a lot you can do to minimize these chances both in the firm you pick, the practice group you're in, and how you perform once you are there.

Slight bit of optimism, although that is not to discount the fact that many do indeed suck hard from what I've heard.


You haven't even been in long enough get pass the bar yet. Wait, now is about the time it starts to suck.


Long enough to get a feel for office culture and talk to others about this topic. As would make sense, a lot depends on the particular people you work with and not everyone is an asshole. TLS doesn't have to be all about scaring people.

Npret

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Npret » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thoughts? Stories? I was considering jumping off a bridge


Hey OP. How are you doing?
Seriouslycall a hotline for help if you need it or go somewhere just to be around people.

https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org

1-800-273-8255

You will find your way out of this but you should get as much help as you need.

Wearthewildthingsr

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Wearthewildthingsr » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:50 pm

It's very encouraging to see the TLS community be so kind to OP who's struggling.

I really don't have any other advice other than that it really is just a job and that job doesn't define you nor will its absence confine you to a lifetime of misery or depression. I honestly consider frequently leaving the law all together. I feel like it's not my passion, I genuinely don't enjoy it, and that I only became a lawyer because that's what my parents and society said was prestigious.

Please stay strong.

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. How do I even explain it to other firms? "I'm currently unemployed because I got fired for making mistakes." I had to interview with over 20 places just to get my current job, how the hell am I supposed to get hired now?

Considering quitting law altogether. Years of hard work down the drain. Fuck this


I am a 2015 grad who got fired before the end of 2016.

1. I negotiated more website time to 6 months. Though this was originally 3 month + a month to month basis. I didnt bash my firm during this time. they didnt make me sign shit. At the end of the 5th month i was getting the sense they wouldnt give me another month and kinda subtly threatened them "I need more time etc. it wont hurt the firm giving me more time, i have been good as far as the firm is concerned, i have been quiet, its not like i am going and talking to above the law or anything... please give me more time"

2. Recruiters are a mixed bag. I used 5 recruiters (side note: fuck them trying to get me to be exclusive) 4 recruiters applied to nearly 50 jobs and got me 0 interviews, one recruiter got me an in-house offer, and one recruiter got me 10 interviews and ultimately an offer. These were bottom end of v100 or smaller shops mostly, with one or 2 v50's. the difference being, that one recruiter was really trying and was good and cared.

3. It is easier to get those bottom v100 spots. My pitch was basically, everything is going really well at X firm, but there is definitely a certain feel for a 1000+ lawyer law firm ... i find i do my best work in the smaller more collegial groups at my firm and thats a dynamic im looking to find at a firm. blah blah blah this firm has that also best of both worlds bullshit since also top quality work etc.

4. I wouldn't tell recruiter or firm you are interviewing with anything about getting fired nor about firm finances or wtvr, use #3 or make something else up.

5. I got some decent traction outside of nyc (i was in a nyc firm). this is because the move makes more logical sense if it is for geographical reasons. also non-nyc firms are usually more hungry for nyc talent.

6. ASK FOR MORE TIME ON WEBSITE

7. this is extremely difficult emotionally, stay strong and dont go on vacation until you down with this. this next move is hugely important.

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:45 pm

op if you're 2015 some other guidance/maybe some optimism- I voluntarily left my firm at the end of 2016. I used a single headhunter and interviewed with maybe a dozen or so firms (I was looking for something specific in the move, so my search was targeted). After about two months in the process I had an offer at one firm, which I leveraged into receiving an offer from my top choice.

I know TLS is hard on headhunters: I really liked mine. I spoke informally with two others and had a bad vibe.

I also think Lateral.ly is a good resource. Most of the positions I applied to through the headhunter were on that website. I think that it might be the best place to start.

I'll echo what the person above said about staying positive: I think you need to have an affirmative reason to move, be it staffing structure, size, desire to do more work in another area-- anything. Know the reputation of the firm you're at. If it's a place that works people hard, expect to be asked if you're leaving because of the hours. I think "I know what I'm looking for now that I've worked a bit, and [contrast firm you're interviewing with with where you're coming from]" works well for the inevitable "why are you looking so early."

Be prepared to talk about what you have done substantively, and don't be shocked if you're asked to run through a description of your matters. They want to see that you're smart.

Glad to talk more about interviewing if you'd like. It's a different skillset from OCI, but it's learnable. I had a much higher success rate trying to lateral, and think a lot of it came down to having my answers down cold and staying positive.

You're early in your career and a move could be the best thing that's happened to you. Stick in there.

Anonymous User
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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:op if you're 2015 some other guidance/maybe some optimism- I voluntarily left my firm at the end of 2016. I used a single headhunter and interviewed with maybe a dozen or so firms (I was looking for something specific in the move, so my search was targeted). After about two months in the process I had an offer at one firm, which I leveraged into receiving an offer from my top choice.

I know TLS is hard on headhunters: I really liked mine. I spoke informally with two others and had a bad vibe.

I also think Lateral.ly is a good resource. Most of the positions I applied to through the headhunter were on that website. I think that it might be the best place to start.

I'll echo what the person above said about staying positive: I think you need to have an affirmative reason to move, be it staffing structure, size, desire to do more work in another area-- anything. Know the reputation of the firm you're at. If it's a place that works people hard, expect to be asked if you're leaving because of the hours. I think "I know what I'm looking for now that I've worked a bit, and [contrast firm you're interviewing with with where you're coming from]" works well for the inevitable "why are you looking so early."

Be prepared to talk about what you have done substantively, and don't be shocked if you're asked to run through a description of your matters. They want to see that you're smart.

Glad to talk more about interviewing if you'd like. It's a different skillset from OCI, but it's learnable. I had a much higher success rate trying to lateral, and think a lot of it came down to having my answers down cold and staying positive.

You're early in your career and a move could be the best thing that's happened to you. Stick in there.


12 interviews? thats impressive, can you describe your old firm/practice area (vault, prestige or anything) also how did u leverage your first offer?

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:41 am

ur_hero wrote:
All are not horrible. It can happen at any (and be largely outside your control), but on the other hand - there is a lot you can do to minimize these chances both in the firm you pick, the practice group you're in, and how you perform once you are there.

Slight bit of optimism, although that is not to discount the fact that many do indeed suck hard from what I've heard.


would you mind explaining these a bit?

Npret

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Npret » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:09 pm

OP: if you get a chance just post to let us know how you are doing. If you don't want to, that's cool.

Anonymous User
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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:50 pm

Not OP here but in a similar boat. My firm did not allow me any website time. How screwed am I?

Npret

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Npret » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP here but in a similar boat. My firm did not allow me any website time. How screwed am I?

Are you still there? Can you ask for some? Or were you turned down?

Anonymous User
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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:57 pm

Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not OP here but in a similar boat. My firm did not allow me any website time. How screwed am I?

Are you still there? Can you ask for some? Or were you turned down?


I was turned down on that front.

ballouttacontrol

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby ballouttacontrol » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2. Recruiters are a mixed bag. I used 5 recruiters (side note: fuck them trying to get me to be exclusive) 4 recruiters applied to nearly 50 jobs and got me 0 interviews, one recruiter got me an in-house offer, and one recruiter got me 10 interviews and ultimately an offer. These were bottom end of v100 or smaller shops mostly, with one or 2 v50's. the difference being, that one recruiter was really trying and was good and cared.


with all of the shitty recruiters out there, it would be great for there to be some positive feedback on the good ones out there.

I'd love it if you'd be willing to DM me the good recruiters you used. Thanks

kykiske

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby kykiske » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not OP here but in a similar boat. My firm did not allow me any website time. How screwed am I?

Are you still there? Can you ask for some? Or were you turned down?


I was turned down on that front.


What's your current situation? Are you no longer employed at your firm, or still within the severance period? Why were you terminated?

Anonymous User
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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:45 am

OP, prepare yourself for a possible long haul. I was fired from a small govt agency 10 months ago, conflict with my boss. Still, not even an interview since November. Went 0/4 on interviews, twice making it to the final round.

Unemployment benefits exhausted. Sporadic doc review and contract/coverage work while trying to build a practice/avoid a resume gap. Still, I had to move back home. It sucks man. Really is a gut punch to be in the Vale a second time.

Not trying to be a pity party, but also trying to tell you that mentally you need to prepare yourself for the anxiety that this will take on you. Allow yourself to feel like absolute shit every so often, but don't allow that feeling to consume you. For me, I try to stay busy. Try to see friends. Get exercise. Take all the free drinks at any networking event you can go to. Find different civic engagement groups you can work/volunteer with.

Npret

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Npret » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:36 pm

kykiske wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not OP here but in a similar boat. My firm did not allow me any website time. How screwed am I?

Are you still there? Can you ask for some? Or were you turned down?


I was turned down on that front.


What's your current situation? Are you no longer employed at your firm, or still within the severance period? Why were you terminated?

Doesn't matter why really. Matters how OP presents it.

Anonymous User
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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:02 pm

Npret wrote:
kykiske wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not OP here but in a similar boat. My firm did not allow me any website time. How screwed am I?

Are you still there? Can you ask for some? Or were you turned down?


I was turned down on that front.


What's your current situation? Are you no longer employed at your firm, or still within the severance period? Why were you terminated?

Doesn't matter why really. Matters how OP presents it.


OP to this thread here.

I'm still within the severance period, but they did not want me to remain on the site. It's a mid-size firm. They let me go because the firm is running out of money and work. At least, that's what I was told.

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:57 pm

OP here. Thank you for the support. I dont want to out myself so I can't post too many details, but it's a horrific situation. Not only because I can't pay my rent, but also because I'm doubting my ability to make it as a lawyer

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SeewhathappensLarry

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Re: Getting Fired

Postby SeewhathappensLarry » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Thank you for the support. I dont want to out myself so I can't post too many details, but it's a horrific situation. Not only because I can't pay my rent, but also because I'm doubting my ability to make it as a lawyer



If nothing else don't doubt your ability to make it as a lawyer. Don't let something that happens early on in your career define who you are. Work to get something else, with the mindset that this will be a blip on your radar in the future.

Also, if the firm is financially strapped that is even more of a reason to not doubt yourself and your abilities.

Anonymous User
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Re: Getting Fired

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:16 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:2. Recruiters are a mixed bag. I used 5 recruiters (side note: fuck them trying to get me to be exclusive) 4 recruiters applied to nearly 50 jobs and got me 0 interviews, one recruiter got me an in-house offer, and one recruiter got me 10 interviews and ultimately an offer. These were bottom end of v100 or smaller shops mostly, with one or 2 v50's. the difference being, that one recruiter was really trying and was good and cared.


with all of the shitty recruiters out there, it would be great for there to be some positive feedback on the good ones out there.

I'd love it if you'd be willing to DM me the good recruiters you used. Thanks



I'm the one of the anons in the thread who wasn't given the talk/voluntarily made a lateral move as a junior.

I recommend lateral.ly to see the market. I had a very positive experience with Momentum: they were OK with me being slow and picky. I don't know if that would be as important if you're scrambling to find anything, but still figure I should give them a shout out.



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