DPW Associates Taking Q's Forum

[Anonymous User]

Any tips on stamina/staying "on" for months at a time? I'm slowly realizing that I've gotten this far by being good at working really hard in short bursts/performing under pressure, but I've never had to put in a lot of hours at a high level day in day out for years at a time. How do I adjust from chillin and getting 8+ hours of sleep as a law student to the biglaw grind?

Not a DPW associate, but I think this question can be answered by anyone. You just kind of do. I remember my first 8 hours billable day where I was behind my comp for 8 hours, no social events, no bs trainings, just legal work. I was exhausted. You just kind of build stamina over time. I can easily bill 8 hours behind my computer and not break a sweat. Now, the bad days are 13/14 hour days where you have no phone calls, no meetings, no depositions, just work behind the comp.

The best days for me are where I have like 7 billables behind a comp and like 2-3 in calls/meetings/depositions. Also, doc review is pretty easy when your first start out. I miss having it.

OP here. Not sure if this question was addressed to the lit alum, but I would agree with the above. You just "do".

There's a lot more up and down in corporate. I go home at 6-7ish regularly when things are slow.

I remember being really worried about this before I started, but I've been surprised by my ability to deal with it. You build a tolerance for it and there's a certain amount of adrenaline that kicks in to assist. Not cuz the work is particularly exciting, but you don't have time to think about how hard you're working when you're juggling a bunch of things on short deadlines.

As far as tips go, I'd say don't be too eager to please and take on more work than you think you can handle. No one is gonna remember if you turn work down, but they will remember if you do things poorly and they're not gonna caveat that memory with "but he/she was really busy!" Definitely get comfortable with pushing back. Also, learn to triage. When you first start (and tbh some of my peers are still this way), your instinct is to assume that everything needs to be done ASAP. That's usually not the case. Carve some time out for yourself even if it means pushing some work back for a bit. No ones gonna die. Take a walk, watch an episode, go work out, meet a friend for dinner.

ETA: Triage and carving time out for yourself is a lot harder in M&A when things are busy. But you also get more valleys in exchange for the peaks.

ETA: left out most important tip IMO, don't be so hard on yourself if you make mistakes occasionally cuz you're slammed. There are definitely a handful of midlevels that think I suck cuz I had to de-prioritize their work cuz I was too busy to give it real time (either cuz their work was objectively the least urgent, the assignment itself sucked and I just didn't have the heart to care as much, or I had equally urgent work for midlevels/seniors that i like more). It's whatever. They probably won't be here forever to hold that against me and I won't be here forever to suffer the consequences even if they are. Just learn from the experience and move on.

[Anonymous User]

How's the social scene at DPW? Do people chill outside of work? If you like to drink will you find folks who will go grab beers with you?

Any practice groups to avoid?

Things you wish you would have known before you started at the firm?

Any fun perks? Obviously not a major thing, but are there firm sponsored events? Do you ever get free shit?

[Pokemon]

Are dpw associates hot?

[Anonymous User]

Incoming summer associate @ DPW:

Do you have any advice on specific groups to try out/avoid like the plague?

[Anonymous User]

Do associates actually take their 4 weeks of vacation?

[Anonymous User]

ETA: left out most important tip IMO, don't be so hard on yourself if you make mistakes occasionally cuz you're slammed. There are definitely a handful of midlevels that think I suck cuz I had to de-prioritize their work cuz I was too busy to give it real time (either cuz their work was objectively the least urgent, the assignment itself sucked and I just didn't have the heart to care as much, or I had equally urgent work for midlevels/seniors that i like more). It's whatever. They probably won't be here forever to hold that against me and I won't be here forever to suffer the consequences even if they are. Just learn from the experience and move on.

This is VERY important advice that is overlooked. There's this weird idea that everything you turn out while being worked like a slave will be perfect; in my experience, this is dumb and self-defeating, though super common at top firms. You're a human, not a robot. You'll turn out better work some days than you will other days; sometimes you'll be tired and fuck up. DO NOT let mistakes get to your head; more importantly, do not let miserable senior associates (and/or partners) get to your head. Chin up and move on. And if people are being unreasonable assholes, learn the fine art of making them realize the offensiveness of their own behavior without saying as much (killing them with kindness and being polite when people are being totally misbehaved often goes a long way).

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

How's the social scene at DPW? Do people chill outside of work? If you like to drink will you find folks who will go grab beers with you?

Any practice groups to avoid?

Things you wish you would have known before you started at the firm?

Any fun perks? Obviously not a major thing, but are there firm sponsored events? Do you ever get free shit?

There are firm-sponsored events, typically things that other law firms participate in (e.g., JPM race, various galas, march madness brackets). You have DPW teams/intramurals that are sponsored by the firm to varying degrees (e.g., ice hockey, dodgeball, kickball, softball, basketball). Yes we get free shit (some group-specific swag in addition to general firm swag).

Short answer, yes you will find people to grab a drink with. Looks like everyone has their drinking group. Also, there are group/class happy hours. There's less socializing as people get more senior as they're more likely to have family obligations. As a general comment, i don't think there's a "Because we are DPW, we shall socialize less" or "Because we are Skadden, we're going to get hammered at least 3 times a week" mentality at any law firm based on my experience and stories from friends. There's gonna be more/less social people anywhere you go and you'll find a group of friends within that pool that matches your energy level.

The practice group question is hard to answer because I don't know what you like/dislike.

Are dpw associates hot?

There are definitely more attractive people than I would have expected at a law firm. Dunno how unique that is to DPW, if at all.

Incoming summer associate @ DPW:

Do you have any advice on specific groups to try out/avoid like the plague?

Try as many groups as you can as summer so you know which groups to avoid as an associate. Definitely try some litigation work if you're corporate-minded and vice versa, you never know what you might enjoy.

Do associates actually take their 4 weeks of vacation?

Yes. Everyone takes all their vacation. You couldn't do this job otherwise. You may not be able to always take vacation when you want though and there are certain restrictions (depending on the group) around the length of each of your vacations. For example the larger corp groups generally require that your vacation last at least 1 week (most people take one vacation per quarter). M&A has a lottery for holiday season vacation (which will already have happened by the time you arrive for orientation, so don't expect to take time off in December as an M&A rotator). The smaller groups typically don't have these restrictions but you lose the coverage flexibility you would enjoy in a larger group. The larger groups have a deeper bench of associates who can cover so you can pretty much get any date approved if requested early enough. You're more likely to experience push back in a small group (i.e., "That week will be tough cuz there aren't any juniors to cover for you, how about the next week?).

And there is sincere effort to not bother you at all while you're on vacation. The more junior you are, the more fungible you are. I've never been bothered or disturbed while I was on vacation. They took me off all the email chains that they could and whoever was covering for me handled everything. It's on you to adequately hand your work off though (i.e., summarize all your work streams, expected deadlines, show them where documents are etc...). Our more senior associates do get pinged occasionally depending on the deal, but that can't be helped because they basically run the deal so it's hard to replace them and because there aren't as many other seniors remaining by that point who could cover for them even if it was substantively feasible. I imagine that's the same at other firms.

[buckiguy_sucks]

Yes. Everyone takes all their vacation. You couldn't do this job otherwise. You may not be able to always take vacation when you want though and there are certain restrictions (depending on the group) around the length of each of your vacations. For example the larger corp groups generally require that your vacation last at least 1 week (most people take one vacation per quarter). M&A has a lottery for holiday season vacation (which will already have happened by the time you arrive for orientation, so don't expect to take time off in December as an M&A rotator). The smaller groups typically don't have these restrictions but you lose the coverage flexibility you would enjoy in a larger group. The larger groups have a deeper bench of associates who can cover so you can pretty much get any date approved if requested early enough. You're more likely to experience push back in a small group (i.e., "That week will be tough cuz there aren't any juniors to cover for you, how about the next week?).

And there is sincere effort to not bother you at all while you're on vacation. The more junior you are, the more fungible you are. I've never been bothered or disturbed while I was on vacation. They took me off all the email chains that they could and whoever was covering for me handled everything. It's on you to adequately hand your work off though (i.e., summarize all your work streams, expected deadlines, show them where documents are etc...). Our more senior associates do get pinged occasionally depending on the deal, but that can't be helped because they basically run the deal so it's hard to replace them and because there aren't as many other seniors remaining by that point who could cover for them even if it was substantively feasible. I imagine that's the same at other firms.

Is this level of micromanaging typical for biglaw vacations? This strikes me as pretty nuts (especially the no short vacation thing). I'd have to imagine this actually makes it easier to take full vacation versus just feeling pressured to never take them but damn I feel like having my vacation micro-managed like this would take some of the fun out of planning it

[Anonymous User]

Yes. Everyone takes all their vacation. You couldn't do this job otherwise. You may not be able to always take vacation when you want though and there are certain restrictions (depending on the group) around the length of each of your vacations. For example the larger corp groups generally require that your vacation last at least 1 week (most people take one vacation per quarter). M&A has a lottery for holiday season vacation (which will already have happened by the time you arrive for orientation, so don't expect to take time off in December as an M&A rotator). The smaller groups typically don't have these restrictions but you lose the coverage flexibility you would enjoy in a larger group. The larger groups have a deeper bench of associates who can cover so you can pretty much get any date approved if requested early enough. You're more likely to experience push back in a small group (i.e., "That week will be tough cuz there aren't any juniors to cover for you, how about the next week?).

And there is sincere effort to not bother you at all while you're on vacation. The more junior you are, the more fungible you are. I've never been bothered or disturbed while I was on vacation. They took me off all the email chains that they could and whoever was covering for me handled everything. It's on you to adequately hand your work off though (i.e., summarize all your work streams, expected deadlines, show them where documents are etc...). Our more senior associates do get pinged occasionally depending on the deal, but that can't be helped because they basically run the deal so it's hard to replace them and because there aren't as many other seniors remaining by that point who could cover for them even if it was substantively feasible. I imagine that's the same at other firms.

Is this level of micromanaging typical for biglaw vacations? This strikes me as pretty nuts (especially the no short vacation thing). I'd have to imagine this actually makes it easier to take full vacation versus just feeling pressured to never take them but damn I feel like having my vacation micro-managed like this would take some of the fun out of planning it

Not really sure what you mean by micromanaging. The short story is that you take all your vacation but there are certain limitations based on group/your workload. And if you go on vacation it's your responsibility to make arrangements so that your coverage can do so adequately. I can't imagine that it's any different anywhere else.

[Anonymous User]

Wait so associates actually take all four weeks f vacation? I thought accepted TLS wisdom was that no one takes vacation ever.

[deepseapartners]

Wait so associates actually take all four weeks f vacation? I thought accepted TLS wisdom was that no one takes vacation ever.

Pretty sure the consensus is more that vacation doesn't feel all that relaxing when you still have to check emails and might be spending the day in your hotel room working on <15 minutes notice.

[Anonymous User]

Wait so associates actually take all four weeks f vacation? I thought accepted TLS wisdom was that no one takes vacation ever.

Pretty sure the consensus is more that vacation doesn't feel all that relaxing when you still have to check emails and might be spending the day in your hotel room working on <15 minutes notice.

Well dis dude is saying that while when you can take vacation is restricted, your colleagues take your vacation very seriously and will bend over backwards not to accommodate you on vacation. This comports with what I've heard from a bunch of other DPW associates and partners. Just sounds like a better deal than I would have expected given TLS.

[Anonymous User]

OP

Wait so associates actually take all four weeks f vacation? I thought accepted TLS wisdom was that no one takes vacation ever.

Yes we take all four weeks (plus however many weeks rolled over from the previous year). I've had to cancel weekend trips, but those weren't vacations that I set aside on the calendar. Just booked a flight on the hopes that things would be slow that particular weekend. Sometimes it works out but not always.

Wait so associates actually take all four weeks f vacation? I thought accepted TLS wisdom was that no one takes vacation ever.

Pretty sure the consensus is more that vacation doesn't feel all that relaxing when you still have to check emails and might be spending the day in your hotel room working on <15 minutes notice.

Well dis dude is saying that while when you can take vacation is restricted, your colleagues take your vacation very seriously and will bend over backwards not to accommodate you on vacation. This comports with what I've heard from a bunch of other DPW associates and partners. Just sounds like a better deal than I would have expected given TLS.

The system is intentionally designed so that it sucks to cover for someone else, which enables us to take vacations undisturbed. To use one of my recent vacations as an example, my flight out wasn't until Saturday afternoon. But my coverage kicked in Friday COB. i wasn't expected to handle anything that Friday evening even though I was still in NY and could have done it. My vacation had started so another associate took over. It really sucked for him just because that was a Friday night that would have been free otherwise (he--as everyone usually is--was a great sport about it). I didn't have to check my email the entire time I was gone (i did check occasionally because OCD, but it turned out to be unnecessary). While I was gone, the deal progressed in such a way that he had to stay on even once I came back (i.e., new workstreams had developed that made sense for him to handle going forward). I've also lost weekends and had to remain on deals that I covered. But this is BigLaw and firms--at least at this level--are always understaffed. The work still needs to be done. Our system is designed so that your teammates carry that burden in your absence, but that's the culture we have. I've never heard anyone gripe about covering for someone else. And honestly, a lot of our peer firms seem the same. Vacations sound just as sacred at Cravath/STB/S&C.

I think a lot of the stories re people not taking vacation take place at firms that have "unlimited vacation" policies. Yes we're limited to 4 weeks/year, but that also means we're entitled to 4 weeks a year. We know where we stand. I have friends at those unlimited vacation shops that don't have a clear idea of how much time a junior is permitted to take off. And as risk averse juniors, they assume it's better to take not enough vacation than too much and end up taking less.

[Anonymous User]

Yes we take all four weeks (plus however many weeks rolled over from the previous year). I've had to cancel weekend trips, but those weren't vacations that I set aside on the calendar. Just booked a flight on the hopes that things would be slow that particular weekend. Sometimes it works out but not always.

Potentially dumb question, but could you speak more to how weekend trips typically play out at DPW (and biglaw in general)? If you're a corporate junior, do you actually need to let everyone on all your deal teams know (or even have people to sign off) when you go out of town for the weekend? If you have nothing on your radar Friday evening and fly out to Chicago or drive up to somewhere where you don't have reliable internet access, are people going to be annoyed that you can't come into the office/plug in when something on your deal blows up Saturday evening? If so, how do you deal with that?

[Anonymous User]

I'm a new DPW anonymous associate in this thread. Corporate. Year 2-4. I won't give more away, but I rotated in 2 of the 3 major corporate groups. I don't want to give away my "ATL" assignment.

"Do people take four weeks vacation?"
Yes. I have friends in many major firms and Davis in every group I have experience with is the best about associates taking vacation. People take it, and it's protected more than other firms. Things can come up, but DPW is as good as it comes. They make a big effort to restaff and cover you while you're out, which other firms do not.

"What do you do about weekend getaways to the Hamptons or Chicago?"
With the exception of maybe one group, DPW is good for declared vacations. DPW is otherwise a large law firm where you are expected to be able to come in, or at least work all day remotely, on call and on short notice. You can negotiate yourself a pass if you're maid of honor in your best friend's wedding (playing a trump card like this works every 1-2 years. It can't be every weekend), but otherwise be monitoring your email and ready to bill if the need comes up. This is not different than other firms. A side effect of DPW being so great about vacations is that several large groups won't let you take days in anything less than 1 week (because they make such an effort to restaff).

"Which large groups have exit options outside of law firms?"
M&A>>>>Capital Markets>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Credit>>>Bankruptcy

"What's your day like?"
10-8 or 10-9

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into how the antitrust group is structured? Particularly how(if?) litigation/merger work is divided. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

I'm a new DPW anonymous associate in this thread. Corporate. Year 2-4. I won't give more away, but I rotated in 2 of the 3 major corporate groups. I don't want to give away my "ATL" assignment.

"Do people take four weeks vacation?"
Yes. I have friends in many major firms and Davis in every group I have experience with is the best about associates taking vacation. People take it, and it's protected more than other firms. Things can come up, but DPW is as good as it comes. They make a big effort to restaff and cover you while you're out, which other firms do not.

"What do you do about weekend getaways to the Hamptons or Chicago?"
With the exception of maybe one group, DPW is good for declared vacations. DPW is otherwise a large law firm where you are expected to be able to come in, or at least work all day remotely, on call and on short notice. You can negotiate yourself a pass if you're maid of honor in your best friend's wedding (playing a trump card like this works every 1-2 years. It can't be every weekend), but otherwise be monitoring your email and ready to bill if the need comes up. This is not different than other firms. A side effect of DPW being so great about vacations is that several large groups won't let you take days in anything less than 1 week (because they make such an effort to restaff).

"Which large groups have exit options outside of law firms?"
M&A>>>>Capital Markets>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Credit>>>Bankruptcy

"What's your day like?"
10-8 or 10-9

Thank you for answering questions.

Is it common for associates to get shunted into a group they don't want? OP mentioned that an associate entering now who wanted M&A and Capital Markets rotations probably wouldn't be able to get both. Does this also apply to permanent practice group? With the exit option disparity and size of groups, it sure seems like at least some associates must end up in Credit when they would have strongly preferred something else...

[deepseapartners]

I'm a new DPW anonymous associate in this thread. Corporate. Year 2-4. I won't give more away, but I rotated in 2 of the 3 major corporate groups. I don't want to give away my "ATL" assignment.
...
"What's your day like?"
10-8 or 10-9

What do you wish you had done as a first year associate that would have helped you be better prepared for your current position? Is there anything you regret not doing (in the sense that the opportunity is now gone)?

What's been the most surprising change in your day-to-day, or even week-to-week, from your first year to now?

[Anonymous User]

I'm the lit associate above, just chiming in on vacation since I think I'm the only lit representation here.

As has already been said, everyone takes their four weeks and vacation is largely uninterrupted. I do think it is a less intensive process on the lit side, though. Usually you give a month's notice and then a reminder closer to departure. I've heard of things popping up at the last minute in fast-moving matters like bankruptcy, but for the most part, you know what will generally be going on during the scheduled time when you book. There is no real coordinating of vacations, and I have never seen an issue with being short-staffed because the deadlines are further out/more concrete than in corporate. The rule is basically don't go on vacation when you know there will be a rush or a deadline while you are gone. Half the office is gone during the major vacation months and around holidays.

I also didn't see any issues with shorter vacations like four day weekends, and plenty of people take them.

[Lacepiece23]

I'm the lit associate above, just chiming in on vacation since I think I'm the only lit representation here.

As has already been said, everyone takes their four weeks and vacation is largely uninterrupted. I do think it is a less intensive process on the lit side, though. Usually you give a month's notice and then a reminder closer to departure. I've heard of things popping up at the last minute in fast-moving matters like bankruptcy, but for the most part, you know what will generally be going on during the scheduled time when you book. There is no real coordinating of vacations, and I have never seen an issue with being short-staffed because the deadlines are further out/more concrete than in corporate. The rule is basically don't go on vacation when you know there will be a rush or a deadline while you are gone. Half the office is gone during the major vacation months and around holidays.

I also didn't see any issues with shorter vacations like four day weekends, and plenty of people take them.

This sounds pretty awesome. I'm at a different firm and haven't taken a day off this year and only took a week and a half last year. We can kind of get away with a week to ten day vacation and taking that time off around the holiday, which still does not come out to four weeks.

[v5junior]

"Do people take four weeks vacation?"
Yes. I have friends in many major firms and Davis in every group I have experience with is the best about associates taking vacation. People take it, and it's protected more than other firms. Things can come up, but DPW is as good as it comes. They make a big effort to restaff and cover you while you're out, which other firms do not.

Just to give some outsider perspective, I know at least 2 other peer firms that provide the exact same coverage function + institutional effort to respect vacation. DPW is in the top tier of vacation protection, but they're not literally the only firm that goes through these efforts.

As the other poster mentioned (I think it was OP), I think the real distinction here is places that have "unlimited vacation." Avoid like the plague.

[Anonymous User]

"Do people take four weeks vacation?"
Yes. I have friends in many major firms and Davis in every group I have experience with is the best about associates taking vacation. People take it, and it's protected more than other firms. Things can come up, but DPW is as good as it comes. They make a big effort to restaff and cover you while you're out, which other firms do not.

Just to give some outsider perspective, I know at least 2 other peer firms that provide the exact same coverage function + institutional effort to respect vacation. DPW is in the top tier of vacation protection, but they're not literally the only firm that goes through these efforts.

As the other poster mentioned (I think it was OP), I think the real distinction here is places that have "unlimited vacation." Avoid like the plague.

I'm not sure why people say this. If you aren't busy or need a vacation you take one. "Unlimited Vacation" is not some trick to keep associates from taking vacation, it's a trick to avoid paying people who choose not to take vacation. You can take 2, 4, 6 weeks at most places if you really want. Most associates are just to cowardly to ask off.

[Anonymous User]

"Do people take four weeks vacation?"
Yes. I have friends in many major firms and Davis in every group I have experience with is the best about associates taking vacation. People take it, and it's protected more than other firms. Things can come up, but DPW is as good as it comes. They make a big effort to restaff and cover you while you're out, which other firms do not.

Just to give some outsider perspective, I know at least 2 other peer firms that provide the exact same coverage function + institutional effort to respect vacation. DPW is in the top tier of vacation protection, but they're not literally the only firm that goes through these efforts.

As the other poster mentioned (I think it was OP), I think the real distinction here is places that have "unlimited vacation." Avoid like the plague.

OP here. Yea I would agree with the above. I know there are other peer firms based on talking with friends that provide the same vacation protections.

I don't think the unlimited vacation arrangement is bad per se. But based on talking to friends and classmates, it just adds the extra step of worrying how you'll be perceived if you take X weeks off as a junior, especially if it ends up being more than your peers. Billable requirements vis a vis bonuses probably play into that as well. If you have unlimited vacation but your comp is tied to billables and you have a bunch of strivers in your class who take less vacation to bill more, that would probably make some juniors anxious.

Yes we take all four weeks (plus however many weeks rolled over from the previous year). I've had to cancel weekend trips, but those weren't vacations that I set aside on the calendar. Just booked a flight on the hopes that things would be slow that particular weekend. Sometimes it works out but not always.

Potentially dumb question, but could you speak more to how weekend trips typically play out at DPW (and biglaw in general)? If you're a corporate junior, do you actually need to let everyone on all your deal teams know (or even have people to sign off) when you go out of town for the weekend? If you have nothing on your radar Friday evening and fly out to Chicago or drive up to somewhere where you don't have reliable internet access, are people going to be annoyed that you can't come into the office/plug in when something on your deal blows up Saturday evening? If so, how do you deal with that?

i let my seniors/midlevels know if I'm planning to be gone for a weekend. I don't ask or expect to need their sign off. If it's a situation where you would need it (I.e., something urgent is gonna come up) then I wouldn't go or planned a trip that weekend to start with. There have been some weekends where things blew up unexpectedly and I had to cancel, but my seniors were fine with me going if I wanted. They just expect me to be available when necessary (which would have been the whole weekend so it didn't make much sense to go).

No one has gotten annoyed with me yet on this issue cuz I don't go anywhere without reliable internet access (you can enable tethering on your phone if necessary) and cuz I don't leave at all if it seems like I'll be needed. But if I was the senior, I'd be annoyed if my junior did that.

Re Saturday evenings (I'm assuming this was a separate question), i usually have a pretty good idea if something is gonna come in, so I stay near a laptop if I'm expecting something. But usually I just have my phone on me and if something urgent comes in while I'm out I'll tell my senior that I'm X minutes away from my computer and that I'll get back ASAP if it can wait until then. They either just handle themselves if it cant or confirm that it can wait until morning or I get back to my comp.

[ambrajdurbra131313]

"Do people take four weeks vacation?"
Yes. I have friends in many major firms and Davis in every group I have experience with is the best about associates taking vacation. People take it, and it's protected more than other firms. Things can come up, but DPW is as good as it comes. They make a big effort to restaff and cover you while you're out, which other firms do not.

Just to give some outsider perspective, I know at least 2 other peer firms that provide the exact same coverage function + institutional effort to respect vacation. DPW is in the top tier of vacation protection, but they're not literally the only firm that goes through these efforts.

As the other poster mentioned (I think it was OP), I think the real distinction here is places that have "unlimited vacation." Avoid like the plague.

That's awesome. What other firms are like this?

[Anonymous User]

"Do people take four weeks vacation?"
Yes. I have friends in many major firms and Davis in every group I have experience with is the best about associates taking vacation. People take it, and it's protected more than other firms. Things can come up, but DPW is as good as it comes. They make a big effort to restaff and cover you while you're out, which other firms do not.

Just to give some outsider perspective, I know at least 2 other peer firms that provide the exact same coverage function + institutional effort to respect vacation. DPW is in the top tier of vacation protection, but they're not literally the only firm that goes through these efforts.

As the other poster mentioned (I think it was OP), I think the real distinction here is places that have "unlimited vacation." Avoid like the plague.

That's awesome. What other firms are like this?

I know Cravath does