Which firms do top HYS students go to?

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Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:22 am

The name says it all- where do the students who get top grades at HYS tend to end up? I understand that there will be substantial variation based on individual interest. I'm mostly hoping to get a rough sense of revealed preferences.

Does anyone have data on this, statistical or anecdotal?

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby cheaptilts » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:28 am

The same firms that other top students at t13 go to, except in much larger numbers relative to their class size.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby warmcherrysoda » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:54 am

.
Last edited by warmcherrysoda on Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:03 am

warmcherrysoda wrote:
cheaptilts wrote:The same firms that other top students at t13 go to, except in much larger numbers relative to their class size.

Are you suggesting there are more top students, relative to class size, at HYS than at other t13 schools? Doesn't this belie the meaning of top?


Op here. To clarify, I was referring to those students at HYS with top grades (for example, those with 5Hs at YLS or 10Hs at HLS). I am sure most people at HYS end up at the same firms as other t13 grads, but it seems that few top students go to these destinations, especially the big New York firms.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby malibustacy » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:05 am

Pretty much everywhere and anywhere. Mega-national law-firms (including a good shot at Wachtell, DC seems like a popular choice from H and Y), smaller boutiques like Susman and Munger, government entry-level Honors programs, top regional firms in markets of choice. Most top HYS students will likely choose to do a Federal Clerkship.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:The name says it all- where do the students who get top grades at HYS tend to end up? I understand that there will be substantial variation based on individual interest. I'm mostly hoping to get a rough sense

Many—perhaps most—of the top HYS students don't go to firms at all. The ones that do go to firms tend to go to lit boutiques.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:26 am

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The name says it all- where do the students who get top grades at HYS tend to end up? I understand that there will be substantial variation based on individual interest. I'm mostly hoping to get a rough sense

Many—perhaps most—of the top HYS students don't go to firms at all. The ones that do go to firms tend to go to lit boutiques.


They usually do still for the summer. Common firms here for tippy top T6 will be Williams & Connolly, Wachtell, Munger Tolles, the four week add-on at Susman, Kellogg Huber, some others (Gibson Dunn LA or DC sometimes and other DC offices). My summer class at one of these had several persons with perfect or near perfect grades at top schools--with few exceptions, they did not return (or haven't yet, maybe the $300k SCOTUS bonus and lack of respectable opportunities in the new administration will entice them in a couple years.) As rpupkin said, others will go to lit biutiques rather than returning to their summer firm.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The name says it all- where do the students who get top grades at HYS tend to end up? I understand that there will be substantial variation based on individual interest. I'm mostly hoping to get a rough sense

Many—perhaps most—of the top HYS students don't go to firms at all. The ones that do go to firms tend to go to lit boutiques.


They usually do still for the summer.

Oh, sure, agree with this. I assumed we were talking about post-grad.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby lawlorbust » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:40 am

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The name says it all- where do the students who get top grades at HYS tend to end up? I understand that there will be substantial variation based on individual interest. I'm mostly hoping to get a rough sense

Many—perhaps most—of the top HYS students don't go to firms at all. The ones that do go to firms tend to go to lit boutiques.


They usually do still for the summer.

Oh, sure, agree with this. I assumed we were talking about post-grad.


I mean, depends on what you mean by "top" students. If OP's 5H/10H bar (which translates to top 10%-ish), then quite a varied range.

But even if you're limiting yourself to feeder credentials (e.g., top 5% + LR + "softs"), they're at least as likely at not to end up at not-boutiques. Think anywhere from usual prestigious, "small" biglaw suspects--MTO, W&C, WLRK-- to niche groups in big firms (Jones Day appellate, etc.) to even strong regionals. Not that they lacked options, but it really shows that real life is very different from TLS's rigid hierarchy of prestige.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:46 am

lawlorbust wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The name says it all- where do the students who get top grades at HYS tend to end up? I understand that there will be substantial variation based on individual interest. I'm mostly hoping to get a rough sense

Many—perhaps most—of the top HYS students don't go to firms at all. The ones that do go to firms tend to go to lit boutiques.


They usually do still for the summer.

Oh, sure, agree with this. I assumed we were talking about post-grad.


I mean, depends on what you mean by "top" students. If OP's 5H/10H bar (which translates to top 10%-ish), then quite a varied range.

But even if you're limiting yourself to feeder credentials (e.g., top 5% + LR + "softs"), they're at least as likely at not to end up at not boutiques. Think anywhere from usual prestigious, "small" biglaw suspects--MTO, W&C, WLRK-- to niche groups in big firms (Jones Day appellate, etc.) to even strong regionals. Not that they lacked options, but it really shows that real life is very different from TLS's rigid hierarchy of prestige.

Right. And then you have all the top YLS grads who basically never step foot in a law firm—they're in the classroom. You get some of that at SLS as well. (Of the three, Harvard likely has the highest percentage of "top" students who end up at traditional firms.)

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:47 am

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The name says it all- where do the students who get top grades at HYS tend to end up? I understand that there will be substantial variation based on individual interest. I'm mostly hoping to get a rough sense

Many—perhaps most—of the top HYS students don't go to firms at all. The ones that do go to firms tend to go to lit boutiques.


Assuming they're not going to biglaw or boutiques, where are they going, presuming we're talking post-clerkship? The mythical unicorn jobs?

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The name says it all- where do the students who get top grades at HYS tend to end up? I understand that there will be substantial variation based on individual interest. I'm mostly hoping to get a rough sense

Many—perhaps most—of the top HYS students don't go to firms at all. The ones that do go to firms tend to go to lit boutiques.


Assuming they're not going to biglaw or boutiques, where are they going, presuming we're talking post-clerkship? The mythical unicorn jobs?

Academia, government, PI.

By the way, I assume "top" means a select few, not "top 50 at each school."

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby bearsfan23 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:
warmcherrysoda wrote:
cheaptilts wrote:The same firms that other top students at t13 go to, except in much larger numbers relative to their class size.

Are you suggesting there are more top students, relative to class size, at HYS than at other t13 schools? Doesn't this belie the meaning of top?


Op here. To clarify, I was referring to those students at HYS with top grades (for example, those with 5Hs at YLS or 10Hs at HLS). I am sure most people at HYS end up at the same firms as other t13 grads, but it seems that few top students go to these destinations, especially the big New York firms.


If you think there are some firms that only hire HYS, you're sadly mistaken.

The top students at least at CCN, and to a large degree the rest of the top 13, get hired at the same elite firms and lit boutiques as the top HYS students.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:11 am

lawlorbust wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The name says it all- where do the students who get top grades at HYS tend to end up? I understand that there will be substantial variation based on individual interest. I'm mostly hoping to get a rough sense

Many—perhaps most—of the top HYS students don't go to firms at all. The ones that do go to firms tend to go to lit boutiques.


They usually do still for the summer.

Oh, sure, agree with this. I assumed we were talking about post-grad.


I mean, depends on what you mean by "top" students. If OP's 5H/10H bar (which translates to top 10%-ish), then quite a varied range.

But even if you're limiting yourself to feeder credentials (e.g., top 5% + LR + "softs"), they're at least as likely at not to end up at not-boutiques. Think anywhere from usual prestigious, "small" biglaw suspects--MTO, W&C, WLRK-- to niche groups in big firms (Jones Day appellate, etc.) to even strong regionals. Not that they lacked options, but it really shows that real life is very different from TLS's rigid hierarchy of prestige.


Op here. Thank you to everyone for the insightful responses. I am particularly curious about the bolded. Do you have more examples of these niche groups?

Also, how do people go about setting up split-summers with lit boutiques that don't OCI (Kellogg, Susman, etc.)?

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:18 am

bearsfan23 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
warmcherrysoda wrote:
cheaptilts wrote:The same firms that other top students at t13 go to, except in much larger numbers relative to their class size.

Are you suggesting there are more top students, relative to class size, at HYS than at other t13 schools? Doesn't this belie the meaning of top?


Op here. To clarify, I was referring to those students at HYS with top grades (for example, those with 5Hs at YLS or 10Hs at HLS). I am sure most people at HYS end up at the same firms as other t13 grads, but it seems that few top students go to these destinations, especially the big New York firms.


If you think there are some firms that only hire HYS, you're sadly mistaken.

The top students at least at CCN, and to a large degree the rest of the top 13, get hired at the same elite firms and lit boutiques as the top HYS students.

This is true. In fact, you could even make it "top 14" for this one, as GULC is better represented at some of these elite boutiques than most of the lower T14.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby dabigchina » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Gibson Dunn LA

I have no skin in this game, but curious about the above. I had no idea Gibson LA was that selective.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:43 am

dabigchina wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Gibson Dunn LA

I have no skin in this game, but curious about the above. I had no idea Gibson LA was that selective.

It's not. Gibson is definitely more selective than your typical big law firm, but it's not as selective as all the other firms mentioned in the post you culled this from. But there are always plenty of HYS students summering at various Gibson offices. They're perhaps not the top HYS students, but plenty of them have solid grades and will go on to good clerkships after graduating.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby Yardbird » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:20 am

rpupkin wrote:
bearsfan23 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
warmcherrysoda wrote:
cheaptilts wrote:The same firms that other top students at t13 go to, except in much larger numbers relative to their class size.

Are you suggesting there are more top students, relative to class size, at HYS than at other t13 schools? Doesn't this belie the meaning of top?


Op here. To clarify, I was referring to those students at HYS with top grades (for example, those with 5Hs at YLS or 10Hs at HLS). I am sure most people at HYS end up at the same firms as other t13 grads, but it seems that few top students go to these destinations, especially the big New York firms.


If you think there are some firms that only hire HYS, you're sadly mistaken.

The top students at least at CCN, and to a large degree the rest of the top 13, get hired at the same elite firms and lit boutiques as the top HYS students.

This is true. In fact, you could even make it "top 14" for this one, as GULC is better represented at some of these elite boutiques than most of the lower T14.
I think you mean T15, let’s not sugar coat it =P. Definitely more represented in DC than #14 at least.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby UVA2B » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:46 am

Maybe I'm just being crotchety, but isn't this kind of the wrong question to be asking? If you're top of your class at HYS, shouldn't you just ask, "what do I want to do?" Elite level hiring is going to still be somewhat idiosyncratic, but literally no legal jobs are foreclosed to you in that position. So really, OP, what is your dream outcome (assuming you're actually in this position)?

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby fxb3 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:20 am

UVA2B wrote:Maybe I'm just being crotchety, but isn't this kind of the wrong question to be asking? If you're top of your class at HYS, shouldn't you just ask, "what do I want to do?" Elite level hiring is going to still be somewhat idiosyncratic, but literally no legal jobs are foreclosed to you in that position. So really, OP, what is your dream outcome (assuming you're actually in this position)?


Came here to make this same point. TITCR, unless OP is asking so he or she can avoid the places where top HYS students go. I've worked in moderately-high-prestige biglaw for 8 years and my firm conclusion is that law students lack imagination. "Where did last year's iteration of me go to work?" is the most common heuristic, and you'd think top students who can write their own ticket would realize why that's a dumb way to decide on a firm.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:29 am

OP, I know you're not an 0L, so why don't you ask your school's career office about this? They should be able to give you statistics.

(Unless you deferred and haven't started yet, in which case you can't ask questions in this forum, but you should still be able to ask your career office.)

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby glitched » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:01 am

Here's one:

http://www.dovel.com/

3 out of 3 associates from HYS. Though this is a boutique and not a big firm.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:43 am

Family member was #2 at HLS when they graduated and opted to go to a small law firm in the midwest then in house 2 years later. Was associated GC at one the big-3 auto companies for a few years then retired.

it's all about personal preference.

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby cdotson2 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:51 am

Is there actually a difference between top 5% outcomes and top 10% outcomes at HYS? Or even further like some have said in this thread top 5 students. Are they even reliably discernible with the grading systems, especially at Y where they don't have anything above an H?

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Re: Which firms do top HYS students go to?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:39 pm

UVA2B wrote:Maybe I'm just being crotchety, but isn't this kind of the wrong question to be asking? If you're top of your class at HYS, shouldn't you just ask, "what do I want to do?" Elite level hiring is going to still be somewhat idiosyncratic, but literally no legal jobs are foreclosed to you in that position. So really, OP, what is your dream outcome (assuming you're actually in this position)?


Op here. I understand revealed preference is a poor way of deciding on a firm. There are two reasons I am asking this question:
1. There may be good destinations out there that I don't know about (for example, I'd never heard of Jones Day appellate)
2. I want a sense for the variety of career paths available. When just starting out in a profession, there is sometimes merit in taking a well-worn path.

I have looked at my school's data from on-campus recruiting, but it doesn't show where these students go after clerkships, and I'd be interested in getting data from other schools too.



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