Religious Stuff

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Nothing to worry about, people will understand
38
81%
Go ahead and ask but it may be cause for concern
5
11%
I wouldn't do it
4
9%
 
Total votes: 47

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Religious Stuff

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:26 am

2L SA in southern city. I'm Muslim and would like to take an extra hour of lunch on Fridays to go to mosque (we go to mosque on Friday afternoons for those who don't know). I will come in extra/stay late to make it up. I'm a bit worried about asking for this though for obvious reasons. What should I do? Thanks

BobBoblaw

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby BobBoblaw » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:15 am

I would bring it up now. If you do get an offer and end up at that firm, it will be more difficult for you to ask for your time for religious observance because the natural question will be why the observance was not so important to you during your SA. I know observant Jews who have always insisted on unplugging all day Saturday and their firms tend to respect this. I don't think you would want to work at a firm that would balk at your fairly modest request for an hour on Friday. I know I wouldn't.

Npret

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby Npret » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:2L SA in southern city. I'm Muslim and would like to take an extra hour of lunch on Fridays to go to mosque (we go to mosque on Friday afternoons for those who don't know). I will come in extra/stay late to make it up. I'm a bit worried about asking for this though for obvious reasons. What should I do? Thanks

Is this something you do every Friday or just something you do occasionally. It sounds like you are willing to skip it which makes it sound like not a required part of religion same as observant Jews. The observant Jew doesn't interfere with the middle of the workday but I don't see why it would be different for you to go to Mosque.

If it is required to attend then definitely explain that your religion requires you to be at the service. This isn't something you need permission to do.

I would be sure that people you work with know you are leaving for mosque- not obtrusively, but make sure one on one you mention it as it comes up. If someone gives you an assignment due Friday afternoon that will take longer because you will become, be sure to let them know casually.

All that said I'm from NYC and worked in V10 NYC corporate with a few observant Jews who never had issues and they tended to stay in lender side bank finance because it worked within their schedule. Maybe one worked in project finance. I don't know if they could as easily manage other groups where fire drills happpen on Fridays.

I have no idea how an SA in the South will work but it should be similar with less restrictions in group because two hours on a Friday afternoon might not be an issue because you can be early/ stay late if needed.
Last edited by Npret on Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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TheSpanishMain

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:50 am

Yeah, I'd honestly tell more than ask (politely, obviously), especially if it's a required part of your religious practice as opposed to just something you'd like to do. I'd be extremely surprised if anyone gave you any flak about it.

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby Civilservant » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:30 am

I would bring it up. You wouldn't want to end up at a firm that doesn't respect your religious beliefs. I think the above post is a bit ignorant in saying that Jews don't interfere with the work day. Shabbos doesn't come in the evening to convenience anyone... same for a Muslim going to the Mosque in the afternoon, because that's when it happens.

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby Nebby » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:15 am

Just tell your supervisor that you have to take a two hour lunch on Fridays for the jumuah. Explain that it's a required tenant if Islam, and that you'll come in early/stay late to make up for the hour lost. They'll understand, and they have to because otherwise it's religious discrimination to not reasonably accommodate your practice.

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby RaceJudicata » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:09 am

Agree with Spanish and the general consensus. Tell (politely), don't "ask." They won't have a problem with it whatsoever. . . and if they do, well, fuck em.

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TheSpanishMain

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:24 am

RaceJudicata wrote:Agree with Spanish and the general consensus. Tell (politely), don't "ask." They won't have a problem with it whatsoever. . . and if they do, well, fuck em.


Yeah. I mean, this obviously comes up less for Christians whose religious obligations are on the weekend, but if my summer firm told me that they expect me to skip Mass every week so I could hunt for commas or write useless memos I'd tell them to get lost. An hour a week for religious observance isn't an unreasonable request, OP, and if your firm gets butthurt about it then they really suck.

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby Phil Brooks » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:39 am

What if my religion required me to take every Friday completely off? Can I "tell, not ask" the firm this?

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:01 am

As a religious Jew, I have similar issues. During the winter I need to leave early on Fridays. I've spoken with others in the same boat.
Most places are okay with it so long as you make up the hours. In fact, I think they'd be happier with someone out of the office for a two-hour lunch break than someone (like me) who leaves at 3 on Fridays for a few months of the year. Most places will be okay, and if they aren't then they aren't a place you'd enjoy working at otherwise. It would mean you'd be working with supervisors that are bothered by your religion.
I don't think you need to bring it up until you start working. That's the understanding I got from most people in my situation.

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby Nebby » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:02 am

Phil Brooks wrote:What if my religion required me to take every Friday completely off? Can I "tell, not ask" the firm this?

Presumably if you practiced a religion that had a sabbath day-esque day on Friday and you were a practicing member of this religion, then they'd have to reasonably accommodate. They'd likely request that you come in extra hours over the weekend if this was the case, since that would be a reasonable accommodation.

What religion requires you to not do any work on Friday?

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Lincoln

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby Lincoln » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:03 am

Phil Brooks wrote:What if my religion required me to take every Friday completely off? Can I "tell, not ask" the firm this?


Well, Judaism requires you to take Saturdays off, and at some Big Law firms there is no meaningful distinction between Friday and Saturday in terms of your supervisors expecting you to work, so yes, you could.

And since I'm not aware of any such religion, this is probably a dig at OP's wish to attend mosque on Fridays. If so, I hope you wise up soon. No place for such attitudes in a modern workplace.

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:03 am

They'll fall all over themselves to accommodate you and pat themselves on the back for doing so. They'll probably publish an article about it on the firm website.

Not to mention that, unless you have a particular project/meeting going on from 1-2 PM, almost no one in Biglaw cares WHEN you do your work. People take two hour lunches and stay late/come early all the time. But of course your mileage may vary as a SA.

RaceJudicata

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby RaceJudicata » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:06 am

Lincoln wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:What if my religion required me to take every Friday completely off? Can I "tell, not ask" the firm this?


Well, Judaism requires you to take Saturdays off, and at some Big Law firms there is no meaningful distinction between Friday and Saturday in terms of your supervisors expecting you to work, so yes, you could.

And since I'm not aware of any such religion, this is probably a dig at OP's wish to attend mosque on Fridays. If so, I hope you wise up soon. No place for such attitudes in a modern workplace.


That's my take as well on Phil brook's comment.

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby Nebby » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:08 am

Come on guys... I was trying to slow-cook this so I could lead up to a "Phil Brooks is a fucking idiot" response but y'all took away my element of surprise

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TheSpanishMain

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:13 am

I assumed it was step one of a dumb slippery slope argument and decided not to engage. "WELL WHAT IF MY RELIGION REQUIRED ME TO WEAR A COLANDER ON MY HEAD AND RECEIVE FELLATIO FROM SCARLETT JOHANNSON?! WHAT THEN?"

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby JackofLit » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:16 am

I was a senior associate at a V30 in the South for four years. This would not have been an issue for anyone, no matter seniority. There were several partners who attended noon Mass several times a week at a nearby chapel. There is no way anyone in that firm would have treated a Muslim differently. I think that is the common perspective at large law firms.

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:28 am

Have been in the same boat as you buddy. Work at a V5 and had a hard time bringing it up, but over time became more comfortable and my team knew I would be gone for a 1.5 hour period. That being said, it sometimes still is impossible to leave when a call is scheduled or something urgent comes up (especially on the transactional side). So, even though everyone is saying bring it up, I understand why you might be afraid, especially as a SA. So, my advice would be to bring it up if needed, but frame it as just a small period and being able to make up the hours

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby Nebby » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:Have been in the same boat as you buddy. Work at a V5 and had a hard time bringing it up, but over time became more comfortable and my team knew I would be gone for a 1.5 hour period. That being said, it sometimes still is impossible to leave when a call is scheduled or something urgent comes up (especially on the transactional side). So, even though everyone is saying bring it up, I understand why you might be afraid, especially as a SA. So, my advice would be to bring it up if needed, but frame it as just a small period and being able to make up the hours

Also, I would think that they'd be pretty accommodating of an SA since SAs don't really do "work" in the same way an associate does. If OP had to miss a call as an SA, it probably wouldn't matter at all.

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby redsox550 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:22 pm

My take on it may be unique, but in my opinion you basically gain immunity by doing so. They cannot and willnot no offer you unless you do something ridiculous, if you mention that. To clarify, even if you would have been no-offered due to fit or work product reasons, because you expressed your religious differences it will not be worth it to the firm to no-offer you due to any potential backlash over perceived anti-muslimness. So obviously do it!

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby sublime » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:29 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:What if my religion required me to take every Friday completely off? Can I "tell, not ask" the firm this?


Banned for being a shithead.

RaceJudicata

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby RaceJudicata » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:26 pm

redsox550 wrote:My take on it may be unique, but in my opinion you basically gain immunity by doing so. They cannot and willnot no offer you unless you do something ridiculous, if you mention that. To clarify, even if you would have been no-offered due to fit or work product reasons, because you expressed your religious differences it will not be worth it to the firm to no-offer you due to any potential backlash over perceived anti-muslimness. So obviously do it!


I hate that i agree with this, but I agree with this.

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cron1834

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby cron1834 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:59 pm

Guy in my SA class did this. Literally no one cared... we all took 2 hour lunches on Friday anyway.

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kellyfrost

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby kellyfrost » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:27 pm

sublime wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:What if my religion required me to take every Friday completely off? Can I "tell, not ask" the firm this?


Banned for being a shithead.




:roll:
Last edited by kellyfrost on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Phil Brooks

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Re: Religious Stuff

Postby Phil Brooks » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:12 am

Whoa whoa whoa! Sorry I obviously gave the wrong impression. What I was trying to elicit is the answer to this question: Is what matters whether or not the request is reasonable? Or is all that matters the fact that the request is religious?

If someone asked for a longer lunch on Fridays because of child care obligations, surely that request should be accommodated just like one for religious observance, right? Neither having kids nor observing a religion is an immutable characteristic.



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