Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a 2015 grad who got fired before the end of 2016.

1. I negotiated more website time to 6 months. Though this was originally 3 month + a month to month basis. I didnt bash my firm during this time. they didnt make me sign shit. At the end of the 5th month i was getting the sense they wouldnt give me another month and kinda subtly threatened them "I need more time etc. it wont hurt the firm giving me more time, i have been good as far as the firm is concerned, i have been quiet, its not like i am going and talking to above the law or anything... please give me more time"

2. Recruiters are a mixed bag. I used 5 recruiters (side note: fuck them trying to get me to be exclusive) 4 recruiters applied to nearly 50 jobs and got me 0 interviews, one recruiter got me an in-house offer, and one recruiter got me 10 interviews and ultimately an offer. These were bottom end of v100 or smaller shops mostly, with one or 2 v50's. the difference being, that one recruiter was really trying and was good and cared.

3. It is easier to get those bottom v100 spots. My pitch was basically, everything is going really well at X firm, but there is definitely a certain feel for a 1000+ lawyer law firm ... i find i do my best work in the smaller more collegial groups at my firm and thats a dynamic im looking to find at a firm. blah blah blah this firm has that also best of both worlds bullshit since also top quality work etc.

4. I wouldn't tell recruiter or firm you are interviewing with anything about getting fired nor about firm finances or wtvr, use #3 or make something else up.

5. I got some decent traction outside of nyc (i was in a nyc firm). this is because the move makes more logical sense if it is for geographical reasons. also non-nyc firms are usually more hungry for nyc talent.

6. ASK FOR MORE TIME ON WEBSITE

7. this is extremely difficult emotionally, stay strong and dont go on vacation until you down with this. this next move is hugely important.


OP here.

I am worried its too late to ask for more time, with only a month remaining. I am going to ask first thing monday.

How was the in house offer? I would jump at that if compensation was tolerable.


I am the quoted above. IT IS NEVER TOO LATE. i asked for an extension 1 week before my time expired. they already had me in the system to disappear one week from then. They already took all the steps as if i was leaving one week later. My advice in addition to the above is appeal to their human side. tell them u have been looking hard, doing your best, this is really stressful since this next move has MAJOR consequences for your legal career and livelihood, and then nicely ask if it would be possible to give more time. if they flat out say no, i would considr a veiled threat"i have been good as far as the firm is concerned, i have been quiet, its not like i am going and talking to above the law or anything... please give me more time" - doesnt really ever make sense to follow through on threat imo, and do not flat out threaten them. these people have egos and will not cower to threats, but an ambigious nicely worded reminded that u are being a good boy is your best backup move to a "no way jose"

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:11 pm

It depends on the firm. My experience at Dechert was I was pulled literally mid-surgery after 5-6 weeks of being on the site without being told. The CB's and line of interviews were canceled, and I was back at square one. My advice to anyone is if during the 3 months, if you have something malignant and a doctor says you need surgery, postpone. You can't assume it's 3 months. Even if the risk, say, a 5-10% chance of grave risk (which it's never that high), it's better than being on the hook for treatments. You should be checking the site every day, and as I learned the hard way, never assume you will be on there tomorrow. Make every minute count, especially if you're at a firm that will surprise pull you. The biggest mistake of the career was taking a doctor's advice over my professional judgment. i think if they find out you're diagnosed with any significant health issue during the 3 months, there's financial incentives to pull you can prove if they found out. That may not be what happened here and may not be indicative of other firms, but it's imperative to postpone any "necessary" medical procedure until you find something
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It depends on the firm. My experience at Dechert was I had some CB's from pre-holiday screeners, but required surgery. Not going to go into specifics for fear of getting sued, but there was something malignant that had to be removed. It sucks because I was in amazing health before starting. Regardless, I was yanked from the site while having surgery. I had no idea when I was getting WTF calls from recruiters.

I will say regardless of how much time you're on the website for, don't assume you will be there tomorrow or the next day. Personally, the lesson I learned is you should be checking at least daily. If you develop significant health problems during your 3 months, there's financial incentives to remove you from the website quicker because you're still technically employed. In addition, you need to assume you can be removed at any minute so I'd postpone any medical appointments or family functions until you find something. Don't sit back, and say I have 3 months. If you're off for even a day, you start back at square one.


Well to be fair, didnt u post elsewhere that they put u back on the website when u spoke to them, or is my memory incorrect? But I agree, you should check the website every few days

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:26 pm

This is fair, but it puts you back at square one. In my case, it was brought to my attention during an interview. The timeline for lateral hiring seems to be more drawn out, which makes sense as it tends to be a bigger investment, and there are fewer openings (you're mostly limited to positions in the area where you have experience). It's much likelier they will be googling you between the interview and their decision. It's also the kind of thing they will ask a recruiter. It's unlikely the recruiter would spread the knowledge, but they'll be mad you wasted their time. If you have submissions pending, those jobs are basically done.

That's why you also shouldn't use the recruiter. If you bank on having 3 months on the site but get pulled off in 3 or 4 for whatever reason, you may wind up placing yourself out of the market by your own doing. It's imperative to approach each day prepared for the possibility you'll be pulled off that minute, which is why it's important to schedule interviews as early as possible and not use recruiters. Once a recruiter knows you're off, it's their ethical duty to tell the places they submitted so they're probably the least responsible party as b/w you, your employer and the recruiter.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:59 am

OP Here

Talked to my firm, the HR person (for lack of a better title) said they cannot represent that I am employed at the firm after my final severance payment date. In other words, they won't give me additional website time.

Does it make sense to contact a partner that I trust and ask him if anything can be done? I have only about 5 weeks left, and I have yet to interview for another job. I was turned down by the 2 call backs I had previously.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:00 pm

Start applying to any law job that may be of interest. Your primary goal should be employment now.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:14 pm

I would also advise limiting the number of apps, and not being overly focused on landing interviews. Your goal is to get a job, not simply applying to jobs. You're technically making a misrepresentation by omission. The fact everyone does it doesn't make it not a misrepresentation, and the only thing worse then being unemployed would be being disbarred and unemployed. I'd already treat it like you're off the website. I can tell you from personal experience if you're close to landing a job only to have to call and update your resume, you're auto-disqualified and could have issues retaining your license.

I'm not sure what your negotiation consisted of, but if you tried to be nice and easygoing thinking you'll get more assistance, it's the opposite. You'll come off as a pushover.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I would also advise limiting the number of apps, and not being overly focused on landing interviews. Your goal is to get a job, not simply applying to jobs. You're technically making a misrepresentation by omission. The fact everyone does it doesn't make it not a misrepresentation, and the only thing worse then being unemployed would be being disbarred and unemployed. I'd already treat it like you're off the website. I can tell you from personal experience if you're close to landing a job only to have to call and update your resume, you're auto-disqualified and could have issues retaining your license.

I'm not sure what your negotiation consisted of, but if you tried to be nice and easygoing thinking you'll get more assistance, it's the opposite. You'll come off as a pushover.


I understand the caution, but I'm not sure this is entirely true. If pay is being received, employment still exists. If the question of why leave the firm comes up in an interview, then yes I think omitting the real reason is cause for concern. So far, that has not happened and I believe that's the reason for staying on the website - no one asks.

I suppose I have nothing to lose by contacting the partner and making my case at this point.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I would also advise limiting the number of apps, and not being overly focused on landing interviews. Your goal is to get a job, not simply applying to jobs. You're technically making a misrepresentation by omission. The fact everyone does it doesn't make it not a misrepresentation, and the only thing worse then being unemployed would be being disbarred and unemployed. I'd already treat it like you're off the website. I can tell you from personal experience if you're close to landing a job only to have to call and update your resume, you're auto-disqualified and could have issues retaining your license.

I'm not sure what your negotiation consisted of, but if you tried to be nice and easygoing thinking you'll get more assistance, it's the opposite. You'll come off as a pushover.


I understand the caution, but I'm not sure this is entirely true. If pay is being received, employment still exists. If the question of why leave the firm comes up in an interview, then yes I think omitting the real reason is cause for concern. So far, that has not happened and I believe that's the reason for staying on the website - no one asks.

I suppose I have nothing to lose by contacting the partner and making my case at this point.

dixiecupdrinking

Gold
Posts: 3440
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I would also advise limiting the number of apps, and not being overly focused on landing interviews. Your goal is to get a job, not simply applying to jobs. You're technically making a misrepresentation by omission. The fact everyone does it doesn't make it not a misrepresentation, and the only thing worse then being unemployed would be being disbarred and unemployed. I'd already treat it like you're off the website. I can tell you from personal experience if you're close to landing a job only to have to call and update your resume, you're auto-disqualified and could have issues retaining your license.

I'm not sure what your negotiation consisted of, but if you tried to be nice and easygoing thinking you'll get more assistance, it's the opposite. You'll come off as a pushover.

I really don't get this advice. How is it a misrepresentation to say you're employed at a firm that employs you, even if your employment will be ending soon? How could that possibly get you disbarred(!)? And how would you advise getting a job without applying to as many as you can?

Npret

Silver
Posts: 1355
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Npret » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:06 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I would also advise limiting the number of apps, and not being overly focused on landing interviews. Your goal is to get a job, not simply applying to jobs. You're technically making a misrepresentation by omission. The fact everyone does it doesn't make it not a misrepresentation, and the only thing worse then being unemployed would be being disbarred and unemployed. I'd already treat it like you're off the website. I can tell you from personal experience if you're close to landing a job only to have to call and update your resume, you're auto-disqualified and could have issues retaining your license.

I'm not sure what your negotiation consisted of, but if you tried to be nice and easygoing thinking you'll get more assistance, it's the opposite. You'll come off as a pushover.

I really don't get this advice. How is it a misrepresentation to say you're employed at a firm that employs you, even if your employment will be ending soon? How could that possibly get you disbarred(!)? And how would you advise getting a job without applying to as many as you can?

Agreed that advice makes zero sense. Maybe it's an 0L in disguise.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This is fair, but it puts you back at square one. In my case, it was brought to my attention during an interview. The timeline for lateral hiring seems to be more drawn out, which makes sense as it tends to be a bigger investment, and there are fewer openings (you're mostly limited to positions in the area where you have experience). It's much likelier they will be googling you between the interview and their decision. It's also the kind of thing they will ask a recruiter. It's unlikely the recruiter would spread the knowledge, but they'll be mad you wasted their time. If you have submissions pending, those jobs are basically done.

That's why you also shouldn't use the recruiter. If you bank on having 3 months on the site but get pulled off in 3 or 4 for whatever reason, you may wind up placing yourself out of the market by your own doing. It's imperative to approach each day prepared for the possibility you'll be pulled off that minute, which is why it's important to schedule interviews as early as possible and not use recruiters. Once a recruiter knows you're off, it's their ethical duty to tell the places they submitted so they're probably the least responsible party as b/w you, your employer and the recruiter.


I don't mean to be a dick, but there is so much misinformation being posted (mostly by the above poster), it has to be corrected. (Btw I am the 2015 person who landed another biglaw job via recruiter - posted above).

1. Good recruiters hustle on your behalf and check-in with the firm. You cannot call or email HR 3 times in 2 weeks without getting them mad, a good recruiter will have multiple candidates interviewing for different spots at a firm and will have close relationships with HR so could ask at the end of the call "Btw did you get a chance to look at Bob's materials." A GOOD RECRUITER WILL MOVE THE PROCESS ALONG QUICKER. Now the caveat is most recruiters suck.

2. I am pretty positive there is no ethical duty for them to report "you're off" and if there is, likely it wont matter. Either the firm will notice or the recruiter will most likely just not say anything. No recruiter will get fired for omitting to inform a firm that there candidate who is seconds away from an offer, was suddenly removed from the firm's website.

3. you will NOT get disbarred for saying you are employed somewhere if you are on the firms website. That is nonsense. YOU WILL ALSO NOT GET DISBARRED for saying the reason you want to leave X firm is for a better fit/more collegial work environment/you wanna live in X city.

On a side note, OP, you having nothing to lose. GO OUT GUNS BLAAZING. Not setting a fire and taking a dump on partners desk, but throwing every hailmary you have left. Contact partner. Ask to speak to HR's supervisor. Btw the answer that "we cannot represent you are employed after severance" is a technical one. HR cant do that because you wouldn't be employed anymore, but they can put you on unpaid leave for 3 months, starting immediately, then they would be able to represent that you are employed. Don't accept a no, try reasoning with them, ask to meet in person to discuss (harder to turn down a pleading desperate man in person) GUNS BLAZING.

You feel defeated, the firm is kicking your ass, hold on to the strength you have and stand up the best you can to the firm, asking for severance, making a strong case, reach out to partners, plead your case if you have to.

May the law firm gods be with you.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:This is fair, but it puts you back at square one. In my case, it was brought to my attention during an interview. The timeline for lateral hiring seems to be more drawn out, which makes sense as it tends to be a bigger investment, and there are fewer openings (you're mostly limited to positions in the area where you have experience). It's much likelier they will be googling you between the interview and their decision. It's also the kind of thing they will ask a recruiter. It's unlikely the recruiter would spread the knowledge, but they'll be mad you wasted their time. If you have submissions pending, those jobs are basically done.

That's why you also shouldn't use the recruiter. If you bank on having 3 months on the site but get pulled off in 3 or 4 for whatever reason, you may wind up placing yourself out of the market by your own doing. It's imperative to approach each day prepared for the possibility you'll be pulled off that minute, which is why it's important to schedule interviews as early as possible and not use recruiters. Once a recruiter knows you're off, it's their ethical duty to tell the places they submitted so they're probably the least responsible party as b/w you, your employer and the recruiter.


I don't mean to be a dick, but there is so much misinformation being posted (mostly by the above poster), it has to be corrected. (Btw I am the 2015 person who landed another biglaw job via recruiter - posted above).

1. Good recruiters hustle on your behalf and check-in with the firm. You cannot call or email HR 3 times in 2 weeks without getting them mad, a good recruiter will have multiple candidates interviewing for different spots at a firm and will have close relationships with HR so could ask at the end of the call "Btw did you get a chance to look at Bob's materials." A GOOD RECRUITER WILL MOVE THE PROCESS ALONG QUICKER. Now the caveat is most recruiters suck.

2. I am pretty positive there is no ethical duty for them to report "you're off" and if there is, likely it wont matter. Either the firm will notice or the recruiter will most likely just not say anything. No recruiter will get fired for omitting to inform a firm that there candidate who is seconds away from an offer, was suddenly removed from the firm's website.

3. you will NOT get disbarred for saying you are employed somewhere if you are on the firms website. That is nonsense. YOU WILL ALSO NOT GET DISBARRED for saying the reason you want to leave X firm is for a better fit/more collegial work environment/you wanna live in X city.

On a side note, OP, you having nothing to lose. GO OUT GUNS BLAAZING. Not setting a fire and taking a dump on partners desk, but throwing every hailmary you have left. Contact partner. Ask to speak to HR's supervisor. Btw the answer that "we cannot represent you are employed after severance" is a technical one. HR cant do that because you wouldn't be employed anymore, but they can put you on unpaid leave for 3 months, starting immediately, then they would be able to represent that you are employed. Don't accept a no, try reasoning with them, ask to meet in person to discuss (harder to turn down a pleading desperate man in person) GUNS BLAZING.

You feel defeated, the firm is kicking your ass, hold on to the strength you have and stand up the best you can to the firm, asking for severance, making a strong case, reach out to partners, plead your case if you have to.

May the law firm gods be with you.


This seems like great advice, especially the solution of offering to take unpaid leave starting now. I'm at a V10, and my experience has been that these big firms want you to get a good other job and go quietly. Don't accept no.

User avatar
Desert Fox

Diamond
Posts: 18302
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Desert Fox » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:I would also advise limiting the number of apps, and not being overly focused on landing interviews. Your goal is to get a job, not simply applying to jobs. You're technically making a misrepresentation by omission. The fact everyone does it doesn't make it not a misrepresentation, and the only thing worse then being unemployed would be being disbarred and unemployed. I'd already treat it like you're off the website. I can tell you from personal experience if you're close to landing a job only to have to call and update your resume, you're auto-disqualified and could have issues retaining your license.

I'm not sure what your negotiation consisted of, but if you tried to be nice and easygoing thinking you'll get more assistance, it's the opposite. You'll come off as a pushover.


Lol at this Uncle Tom. Don't listen to this guy
Last edited by Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:50 pm

I should have been clearer, but I was referring to this situation, which happened to me at Dechert:

1.) You have an interview 3 weeks before you're pulled off the site.

2.) You have round 2 weeks later.

3.) You're pulled after round two.

At both interviews, you'll be asked why you're looking and how your experience has been. You'll probably say "things are good, very good firm, etc." and only present reasons why you want their firm. This is basically lateral interviewing 101.

Once you're off the site, they're going to know you lied and they will be pissed. It's not that the app is a lie but you're lying about why you're leaving. In my case my entire head was in bandages and I was on a ton of pain killers so they felt bad. The recruiter will be pissed because they'll feel you wasted your time, and once you're off, all those pending apps become misrepresentations.

I don't think it's wrong, but the uncle toms at another firm will especially if they were going to extend an offer. In my situation, I wasn't even told I was being removed from the website but it still becomes a huge deal - in their minds, hiring you if you were let go regardless of the circumstances is like hiring an athlete with a torn UCL.

If I hadn't just had surgery to remove something malignant, and looked 1/2 dead, I would have been fucked. I'm not saying don't try to get a job at all costs. Does it suck to not be able to pay your mortgage? Of course. Worst case scenario, you and your loved ones spend a bit of time in a shelter and bounce back. Hiring is dragged out for laterals, and there's a risk you'll lose your license, which would be much more depressing because it removes any chance to rebound.

It's a shitty situation, and with student loans a life ruining one. It also sucks if you join a firm that has no work from the day you start. The lesson is not to pick shit firms. The firm never represents that just because they're making, they will have work available. Some firms are shitty. Don't pick shit firms. If you made the mistake of picking a shit firm, perhaps in some future life you'll be reincarnated, go through the big law process again and join a firm that has business.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP Here

Talked to my firm, the HR person (for lack of a better title) said they cannot represent that I am employed at the firm after my final severance payment date. In other words, they won't give me additional website time.

Does it make sense to contact a partner that I trust and ask him if anything can be done? I have only about 5 weeks left, and I have yet to interview for another job. I was turned down by the 2 call backs I had previously.


You should do absolutely anything to stay on the website. If you cannot get anything done being nice, get mean.

I have been on both ends of severance talks and there is always flexibility. You need to be very clear that the firm is ruining your career prospects, and if they do so, you are not going to go quietly and will look to all legal avenues of recourse.

Law firms don't want a disgruntled associate out there with nothing to lose, and you have to let them know that this is the position they are forcing you into and you will act accordingly, and that it is in their best interest to give you website time. You have nothing to lose and need to keep fighting. You are in biglaw but this is a career where you desperately need the website.

Edit: You are not risking you law license by representing you are still at the old firm. This is customary in the industry and the assertion above is ridiculous.

Tiny Rick!

Bronze
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:06 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Tiny Rick! » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I should have been clearer, but I was referring to this situation, which happened to me at Dechert:

1.) You have an interview 3 weeks before you're pulled off the site.

2.) You have round 2 weeks later.

3.) You're pulled after round two.

At both interviews, you'll be asked why you're looking and how your experience has been. You'll probably say "things are good, very good firm, etc." and only present reasons why you want their firm. This is basically lateral interviewing 101.

Once you're off the site, they're going to know you lied and they will be pissed. It's not that the app is a lie but you're lying about why you're leaving. In my case my entire head was in bandages and I was on a ton of pain killers so they felt bad. The recruiters will be pissdd because they'll feel you wasted your time, and once you're off, all those pending apps become misrepresentations.

I don't think it's wrong, but the uncle toms at another firm will especially if they wrre going to extend an pffer. In my situation, I wasn't even told I was being removed from the website because it was just random. I was also having head surgery, and with the pain killers wasn't googling my name daily. I honestly think if i hadn't just been surgery, I'd have been screwed. They were very angry.

It sucks and it's life ruining, but all you can say is don't go to a firm that doesn't have enough work to support first years ir newly developing attorneys. It sucks.

But unless OP says they were asked to leave, they are making themselves vulnerable to sanctions. I was told if I wasn't nice, it would have happened to me which is why i'm cautioning OP. I was never even informed I was being removed so it wasn't even a real misrepresentation and it was still a potentially huge deal.

Look, does it suck to not have enough money to pay the mortgage? Of course, but at the end of the day it's better to keep the law license and soend skme time in a shelter than risk 99 percent being in the same position but riskig the license. It's a shitty decision. That's the cost of picking a weak firm.


What a strange and specific situation. This is bad advice.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:46 am

The advice was not to not apply for jobs. It was to not apply to jobs that would care they were laid off.

If it's not on ATL that a firm had layoffs or widely known, anyone laid off is untouchable and the odds of interview to start date happening in under 6 weeks are very low. Even if OP had an offer, if they found out they were laid off, it's 9going to be rescinded.

And from a psychological standpoint, imagine you're super stressed about finding something - miracle, you did, just in time and then it's pulled because you're off the website and the new coworkers you were excited to meet, the paycheck, the mortgage, it's gone. It's a much harder situation to rebound from, and if the firm won't work with them, this is more likely than getting a similar job. The psychology has to be taken into account, because the getting fired is already depressing and OP was probably stealthed, which is also draining. If OP has an offer just to have pulled from under their feet, that's where the line of "this sucks" to feeling hopeless and it's a much harder place to rebound from regardless of how mentally strong someone is.

I'm not saying don't apply for any BL positions. I'm saying, at this point focus on most non-big law - I think in general, BL will try to only hire about 3 mo's after they know you were looking to specifically avoid hiring someone who was fired. Non-BL doesn't care as much.

Moneytrees

Silver
Posts: 791
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:The advice was not to not apply for jobs. It was to not apply to jobs that would care they were laid off.

If it's not on ATL that a firm had layoffs or widely known, anyone laid off is untouchable and the odds of interview to start date happening in under 6 weeks are very low. Even if OP had an offer, if they found out they were laid off, it's 9going to be rescinded.

And from a psychological standpoint, imagine you're super stressed about finding something - miracle, you did, just in time and then it's pulled because you're off the website and the new coworkers you were excited to meet, the paycheck, the mortgage, it's gone. It's a much harder situation to rebound from, and if the firm won't work with them, this is more likely than getting a similar job. The psychology has to be taken into account, because the getting fired is already depressing and OP was probably stealthed, which is also draining. If OP has an offer just to have pulled from under their feet, that's where the line of "this sucks" to feeling hopeless and it's a much harder place to rebound from regardless of how mentally strong someone is.

I'm not saying don't apply for any BL positions. I'm saying, at this point focus on most non-big law - I think in general, BL will try to only hire about 3 mo's after they know you were looking to specifically avoid hiring someone who was fired. Non-BL doesn't care as much.


This doesn't sound right.

User avatar
Pokemon

Gold
Posts: 3527
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:58 pm

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Pokemon » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:The advice was not to not apply for jobs. It was to not apply to jobs that would care they were laid off.

If it's not on ATL that a firm had layoffs or widely known, anyone laid off is untouchable and the odds of interview to start date happening in under 6 weeks are very low. Even if OP had an offer, if they found out they were laid off, it's 9going to be rescinded.

And from a psychological standpoint, imagine you're super stressed about finding something - miracle, you did, just in time and then it's pulled because you're off the website and the new coworkers you were excited to meet, the paycheck, the mortgage, it's gone. It's a much harder situation to rebound from, and if the firm won't work with them, this is more likely than getting a similar job. The psychology has to be taken into account, because the getting fired is already depressing and OP was probably stealthed, which is also draining. If OP has an offer just to have pulled from under their feet, that's where the line of "this sucks" to feeling hopeless and it's a much harder place to rebound from regardless of how mentally strong someone is.

I'm not saying don't apply for any BL positions. I'm saying, at this point focus on most non-big law - I think in general, BL will try to only hire about 3 mo's after they know you were looking to specifically avoid hiring someone who was fired. Non-BL doesn't care as much.


Do you have experience with this or are you just bs-ing? Cause it seems pretty off.

Also mods, what is up with use of anon here? Really only op has said something anon-worthy on this thread.

Npret

Silver
Posts: 1355
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Npret » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:08 am

Pokemon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The advice was not to not apply for jobs. It was to not apply to jobs that would care they were laid off.

If it's not on ATL that a firm had layoffs or widely known, anyone laid off is untouchable and the odds of interview to start date happening in under 6 weeks are very low. Even if OP had an offer, if they found out they were laid off, it's 9going to be rescinded.

And from a psychological standpoint, imagine you're super stressed about finding something - miracle, you did, just in time and then it's pulled because you're off the website and the new coworkers you were excited to meet, the paycheck, the mortgage, it's gone. It's a much harder situation to rebound from, and if the firm won't work with them, this is more likely than getting a similar job. The psychology has to be taken into account, because the getting fired is already depressing and OP was probably stealthed, which is also draining. If OP has an offer just to have pulled from under their feet, that's where the line of "this sucks" to feeling hopeless and it's a much harder place to rebound from regardless of how mentally strong someone is.

I'm not saying don't apply for any BL positions. I'm saying, at this point focus on most non-big law - I think in general, BL will try to only hire about 3 mo's after they know you were looking to specifically avoid hiring someone who was fired. Non-BL doesn't care as much.


Do you have experience with this or are you just bs-ing? Cause it seems pretty off.

Also mods, what is up with use of anon here? Really only op has said something anon-worthy on this thread.

Seriously. It's as if this person never looked for a job.
I don't know any firm that won't care if you were fired.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:17 am

OP here - the above advice is definitely freaking me out.

1styearlateral

Silver
Posts: 834
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:55 pm

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby 1styearlateral » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:48 am

Pokemon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The advice was not to not apply for jobs. It was to not apply to jobs that would care they were laid off.

If it's not on ATL that a firm had layoffs or widely known, anyone laid off is untouchable and the odds of interview to start date happening in under 6 weeks are very low. Even if OP had an offer, if they found out they were laid off, it's 9going to be rescinded.

And from a psychological standpoint, imagine you're super stressed about finding something - miracle, you did, just in time and then it's pulled because you're off the website and the new coworkers you were excited to meet, the paycheck, the mortgage, it's gone. It's a much harder situation to rebound from, and if the firm won't work with them, this is more likely than getting a similar job. The psychology has to be taken into account, because the getting fired is already depressing and OP was probably stealthed, which is also draining. If OP has an offer just to have pulled from under their feet, that's where the line of "this sucks" to feeling hopeless and it's a much harder place to rebound from regardless of how mentally strong someone is.

I'm not saying don't apply for any BL positions. I'm saying, at this point focus on most non-big law - I think in general, BL will try to only hire about 3 mo's after they know you were looking to specifically avoid hiring someone who was fired. Non-BL doesn't care as much.


Do you have experience with this or are you just bs-ing? Cause it seems pretty off.

Also mods, what is up with use of anon here? Really only op has said something anon-worthy on this thread.

This person is just using anon to spread BS. That post is cancer.

Getting fired/laid off for things that are NOT constantly blowing deadlines, spitting on a client, stealing from the firm, etc. will not prevent you from being hired. Would it be ideal to lateral under the guise that you're not being let go? Sure. But if you're off the website, there's no reason to try and hide it. Just spin your layoff in a positive way and highlight your value to the prospective firm (solid experience, excellent writing, etc.).

JackofLit

New
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:28 pm

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby JackofLit » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:18 am

1styearlateral wrote:
Pokemon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The advice was not to not apply for jobs. It was to not apply to jobs that would care they were laid off.

If it's not on ATL that a firm had layoffs or widely known, anyone laid off is untouchable and the odds of interview to start date happening in under 6 weeks are very low. Even if OP had an offer, if they found out they were laid off, it's 9going to be rescinded.

And from a psychological standpoint, imagine you're super stressed about finding something - miracle, you did, just in time and then it's pulled because you're off the website and the new coworkers you were excited to meet, the paycheck, the mortgage, it's gone. It's a much harder situation to rebound from, and if the firm won't work with them, this is more likely than getting a similar job. The psychology has to be taken into account, because the getting fired is already depressing and OP was probably stealthed, which is also draining. If OP has an offer just to have pulled from under their feet, that's where the line of "this sucks" to feeling hopeless and it's a much harder place to rebound from regardless of how mentally strong someone is.

I'm not saying don't apply for any BL positions. I'm saying, at this point focus on most non-big law - I think in general, BL will try to only hire about 3 mo's after they know you were looking to specifically avoid hiring someone who was fired. Non-BL doesn't care as much.


Do you have experience with this or are you just bs-ing? Cause it seems pretty off.

Also mods, what is up with use of anon here? Really only op has said something anon-worthy on this thread.

This person is just using anon to spread BS. That post is cancer.

Getting fired/laid off for things that are NOT constantly blowing deadlines, spitting on a client, stealing from the firm, etc. will not prevent you from being hired. Would it be ideal to lateral under the guise that you're not being let go? Sure. But if you're off the website, there's no reason to try and hide it. Just spin your layoff in a positive way and highlight your value to the prospective firm (solid experience, excellent writing, etc.).


Been following this for awhile. I think he's overstating it, but the concern is real. It may be possible to just "be honest" about being laid off, and still successfully find a Biglaw/midlaw position somewhere. But the odds are against it. There are fifty qualified applicants for every such position.

Two cents to OP: You should be less focused right now on finding another Biglaw position or any "peer" position. You should be focused instead on finding any reasonable attorney position from which you can rebuild your career. Have you applied to every state government, local government, and small, local firm position in every state you're licensed? It is painful to slide down the ladder for awhile; it's more comfortable to just believe that you'll find something equivalent to your old job. Don't let that pain stop you from taking necessary steps to salvage your career.

Anonymous User
Posts: 324695
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fired 2nd Year BigLaw Associate - Help

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:46 am

Moneytrees wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The advice was not to not apply for jobs. It was to not apply to jobs that would care they were laid off.

If it's not on ATL that a firm had layoffs or widely known, anyone laid off is untouchable and the odds of interview to start date happening in under 6 weeks are very low. Even if OP had an offer, if they found out they were laid off, it's 9going to be rescinded.

And from a psychological standpoint, imagine you're super stressed about finding something - miracle, you did, just in time and then it's pulled because you're off the website and the new coworkers you were excited to meet, the paycheck, the mortgage, it's gone. It's a much harder situation to rebound from, and if the firm won't work with them, this is more likely than getting a similar job. The psychology has to be taken into account, because the getting fired is already depressing and OP was probably stealthed, which is also draining. If OP has an offer just to have pulled from under their feet, that's where the line of "this sucks" to feeling hopeless and it's a much harder place to rebound from regardless of how mentally strong someone is.

I'm not saying don't apply for any BL positions. I'm saying, at this point focus on most non-big law - I think in general, BL will try to only hire about 3 mo's after they know you were looking to specifically avoid hiring someone who was fired. Non-BL doesn't care as much.


This doesn't sound right.


Agree with Moneytrees, this ANON poster is spewing BS. Mods, how is anything this ANON posting fall within the rules for anonymous posting?

To be honest, this ANON poster seems to be either: (1) a non-licensed J.D. grad who is either an inexperienced recruiter, or (2) a "pre-law" advisor on how to succeed in law school and finding a job in BL.



Return to “Legal Employment�

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.