Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

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BoyJord

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby BoyJord » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:24 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
You also said very little about how the first 3/4 of the interview (where the interviewer is asking you questions) goes. It doesn't matter that you ask scripted questions. It matters that you can hold a conversation. Don't blame your lack of ability to interview on your age or socioeconomic background.

This is such a weird overreaction to his/her post.


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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby star fox » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:43 pm

Sometimes those mock interviews don't have the intended effect because nobody is ever going to outright tell you that you are weird or boring.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Lettow » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:58 pm

Some people can navigate through class differences, while others can't. People can and do exaggerate class to justify or rationalize their inability to engage with members of that class, when the likely problem is the person rather than actual class differences.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby acr » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:38 pm

BoyJord wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
You also said very little about how the first 3/4 of the interview (where the interviewer is asking you questions) goes. It doesn't matter that you ask scripted questions. It matters that you can hold a conversation. Don't blame your lack of ability to interview on your age or socioeconomic background.

This is such a weird overreaction to his/her post.


+1


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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:40 pm

Lettow wrote:Some people can navigate through class differences, while others can't. People can and do exaggerate class to justify or rationalize their inability to engage with members of that class, when the likely problem is the person rather than actual class differences.

And other people like to find reasons to blame someone for lack of success, apparently.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:01 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Lettow wrote:Some people can navigate through class differences, while others can't. People can and do exaggerate class to justify or rationalize their inability to engage with members of that class, when the likely problem is the person rather than actual class differences.

And other people like to find reasons to blame someone for lack of success, apparently.


OP went 0/24, blames his age/background, and is annoyed at other people who got jobs because their "parents made calls for them".

You seriously think OP is just a regular guy who got shafted by age/class discrimination, and that's why he didn't get an offer after 24 interviews? And his peers who got jobs only did so because they were born with silver spoons, and not maybe because they prepped for interviews?

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby proleteriate » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:23 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
OP went 0/24, blames his age/background, and is annoyed at other people who got jobs because their "parents made calls for them".

You seriously think OP is just a regular guy who got shafted by age/class discrimination, and that's why he didn't get an offer after 24 interviews? And his peers who got jobs only did so because they were born with silver spoons, and not maybe because they prepped for interviews?


I think undoubtedly that OP is a whiny little shit. 0/24 is too much.

But to play devil's advocate, ones born with silver spoons have been prepping for these kind of interviews since birth. For example, let's say ur from a wealthy background, and went to a great liberal arts school, and so happens that the interviewer also went there, BOOM, instant rapport. Not to say this will always happen, but one can't deny that our profession is more overwhelmingly represented by affluence than the destitute; and people tend to connect with their own.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:25 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Lettow wrote:Some people can navigate through class differences, while others can't. People can and do exaggerate class to justify or rationalize their inability to engage with members of that class, when the likely problem is the person rather than actual class differences.

And other people like to find reasons to blame someone for lack of success, apparently.


OP went 0/24, blames his age/background, and is annoyed at other people who got jobs because their "parents made calls for them".

You seriously think OP is just a regular guy who got shafted by age/class discrimination, and that's why he didn't get an offer after 24 interviews? And his peers who got jobs only did so because they were born with silver spoons, and not maybe because they prepped for interviews?

You get that I didn't say any of those things, right? And that the OP has been talking about his emotional response to being in a crappy situation, and has in fact asked how to get past it? You are super defensive around this whole subject.

Class differences are a thing. Of course people can learn to negotiate them, but that doesn't mean that someone who struggles with them is simply at fault/making excuses for not being able to "engage" with people of a different class.

I'm sure there are things the OP could have/should have done differently and I'm sure he would agree. But wow you are getting bent out of shape at the idea that this might be difficult for someone, and are reading things into posts that just aren't there.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:29 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Lettow wrote:Some people can navigate through class differences, while others can't. People can and do exaggerate class to justify or rationalize their inability to engage with members of that class, when the likely problem is the person rather than actual class differences.

And other people like to find reasons to blame someone for lack of success, apparently.


OP went 0/24, blames his age/background, and is annoyed at other people who got jobs because their "parents made calls for them".

You seriously think OP is just a regular guy who got shafted by age/class discrimination, and that's why he didn't get an offer after 24 interviews? And his peers who got jobs only did so because they were born with silver spoons, and not maybe because they prepped for interviews?


OP again: I am sure I sucked a bit in my interviews. No doubt, but I am saying there are a lot of factors. I don't know how it breaks down as far as how much of the failure was my suckage, how much was not being the same as people they were used to hiring, how much was me saying I wanted to work in areas the firms do work in but weren't looking for summers in, random alignment of the stars on the interview days, asking the wrong questions, blah blah blah. I am not someone to say the only reason X happened is Y factor. It wouldn't make sense.

I, however, am someone who is open to a huge variety of factors influencing the way things shook out. When you think you are on track for something because you thought you checked all the right boxes, it sucks. I read all the posts on here, damn near memorized the Chambers guides on the firms, I got a nice suit and tie combo, prepared questions, worked on a personal statement. I swung and missed and now I have to get over it. It takes a certain amount of failures before getting to success sometimes.

I generally appreciate the comments. Fact is, there are days when I get a little stuck on why it didn't happen for me like it did for someone else. Other days, it's cool, I will find my own path and figure it out.

On the days when my gratitude exceeds my expectations, I have pretty good days.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:29 pm

proleteriate wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
OP went 0/24, blames his age/background, and is annoyed at other people who got jobs because their "parents made calls for them".

You seriously think OP is just a regular guy who got shafted by age/class discrimination, and that's why he didn't get an offer after 24 interviews? And his peers who got jobs only did so because they were born with silver spoons, and not maybe because they prepped for interviews?


I think undoubtedly that OP is a whiny little shit. 0/24 is too much.

But to play devil's advocate, ones born with silver spoons have been prepping for these kind of interviews since birth. For example, let's say ur from a wealthy background, and went to a great liberal arts school, and so happens that the interviewer also went there, BOOM, instant rapport. Not to say this will always happen, but one can't deny that our profession is more overwhelmingly represented by affluence than the destitute; and people tend to connect with their own.

I had two interviews with alumni from my UG, and I got (probably undeserved, just based on the cities and my lack of ties) a CB from both.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby proleteriate » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Lettow wrote:Some people can navigate through class differences, while others can't. People can and do exaggerate class to justify or rationalize their inability to engage with members of that class, when the likely problem is the person rather than actual class differences.

And other people like to find reasons to blame someone for lack of success, apparently.


OP went 0/24, blames his age/background, and is annoyed at other people who got jobs because their "parents made calls for them".

You seriously think OP is just a regular guy who got shafted by age/class discrimination, and that's why he didn't get an offer after 24 interviews? And his peers who got jobs only did so because they were born with silver spoons, and not maybe because they prepped for interviews?


OP again: I am sure I sucked a bit in my interviews. No doubt, but I am saying there are a lot of factors. I don't know how it breaks down as far as how much of the failure was my suckage, how much was not being the same as people they were used to hiring, how much was me saying I wanted to work in areas the firms do work in but weren't looking for summers in, random alignment of the stars on the interview days, asking the wrong questions, blah blah blah. I am not someone to say the only reason X happened is Y factor. It wouldn't make sense.

I, however, am someone who is open to a huge variety of factors influencing the way things shook out. When you think you are on track for something because you thought you checked all the right boxes, it sucks. I read all the posts on here, damn near memorized the Chambers guides on the firms, I got a nice suit and tie combo, prepared questions, worked on a personal statement. I swung and missed and now I have to get over it. It takes a certain amount of failures before getting to success sometimes.

I generally appreciate the comments. Fact is, there are days when I get a little stuck on why it didn't happen for me like it did for someone else. Other days, it's cool, I will find my own path and figure it out.

On the days when my gratitude exceeds my expectations, I have pretty good days.


OP, I actually had a pretty similar experience with u dude. I feel ur pain. Do u have any good buddies that can pinpoint things out? Normally ppl are too nice to tell u the truth. Feel free to PM me to vent also.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?bf to

Postby zhenders » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:50 pm

This thread is so strange. I feel like it's a case study gold mine for anyone studying implicit bias and trying to convey what it is, what it can look like, and how it matters.

It's very clear that nearly all of the comments in this thread are both well-intentioned and honest, which is wonderful. Yet at the same time, there's this thread of "but [insert class difference here ] is not s big deal, really" that is kind of apparent for anyone reading through this who has genuinely felt like a cultural outsider.

It's very difficult to appreciate how big the little things are. We discuss this all anecdotally (Europe trips, for instance) as though it's possible to consider any of this free from context. Sure, no one cultural dissimilarity may appear to be a big deal, and yes, they often can be overcome by taking on certain attitudes or contrivances, but the points are they (1) lots of small things, taken collectively, add up to big rifts that are simultaneously very difficult to identify precisely BECAUSE they are comprised of lots of small things, and (2) any energy expenditure (actual, emotional, intellectual, or all of the above) is an expenditure one person has to make that others don't, just to achieve baseline social dynamics.

Also, the cultural differences between being actually poor, and being middle class or what-have-you (whatever middle class means) are actually bigger and more numerous than people realize. There are a million examples of this. Europe trips are good examples: the idea of riding in a plane at all, let alone taking one to Europe, let alone doing so to vacation, is very commonplace for some folks, but literally completely outside of the realm of possibility for others. As another example, when I grew up, "going to college" meant "taking classes at the local community college." I didn't learn that some undergrads were better than others until 3 years into undergrad; the thought never crossed my mind: in my family, going to college at all meant you had achieved the height of life success: it meant you might get a salary job one day, instead of just an hourly job.

Anyways... I'm just saying, if you catch yourself thinking that it's not that hard to be _____ in America (or in Biglaw, or in the law, or anywhere), there's a good chance you don't quite know what you're talking about.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Lettow » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:18 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Class differences are a thing. Of course people can learn to negotiate them, but that doesn't mean that someone who struggles with them is simply at fault/making excuses for not being able to "engage" with people of a different class.

I'm sure there are things the OP could have/should have done differently and I'm sure he would agree. But wow you are getting bent out of shape at the idea that this might be difficult for someone, and are reading things into posts that just aren't there.


Everyone struggles in some degree to interact with members of groups who are *different* than them. I never said what you've put in bold.

Law school attracts members of one class more than it attracts members of the opposite class. That's why we hear stories of people from poorer backgrounds discussing how discrimination held them back. If things were switched, we would see essentially the same stories, just from members of wealthier backgrounds.

Two people from the same minority class can go through the same law school and experience the same things, yet one lashes out while the other makes lots of friends. There is something about that person who lashes out that did not mesh well with the environment. By blaming the environment rather than considering anything he or she did or did not do, the person is foreclosing any real personal growth.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?bf to

Postby Lettow » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:30 pm

zhenders wrote:This thread is so strange. I feel like it's a case study gold mine for anyone studying implicit bias and trying to convey what it is, what it can look like, and how it matters.

It's very clear that nearly all of the comments in this thread are both well-intentioned and honest, which is wonderful. Yet at the same time, there's this thread of "but [insert class difference here ] is not s big deal, really" that is kind of apparent for anyone reading through this who has genuinely felt like a cultural outsider.

It's very difficult to appreciate how big the little things are. We discuss this all anecdotally (Europe trips, for instance) as though it's possible to consider any of this free from context. Sure, no one cultural dissimilarity may appear to be a big deal, and yes, they often can be overcome by taking on certain attitudes or contrivances, but the points are they (1) lots of small things, taken collectively, add up to big rifts that are simultaneously very difficult to identify precisely BECAUSE they are comprised of lots of small things, and (2) any energy expenditure (actual, emotional, intellectual, or all of the above) is an expenditure one person has to make that others don't, just to achieve baseline social dynamics.

Also, the cultural differences between being actually poor, and being middle class or what-have-you (whatever middle class means) are actually bigger and more numerous than people realize. There are a million examples of this. Europe trips are good examples: the idea of riding in a plane at all, let alone taking one to Europe, let alone doing so to vacation, is very commonplace for some folks, but literally completely outside of the realm of possibility for others. As another example, when I grew up, "going to college" meant "taking classes at the local community college." I didn't learn that some undergrads were better than others until 3 years into undergrad; the thought never crossed my mind: in my family, going to college at all meant you had achieved the height of life success: it meant you might get a salary job one day, instead of just an hourly job.

Anyways... I'm just saying, if you catch yourself thinking that it's not that hard to be _____ in America (or in Biglaw, or in the law, or anywhere), there's a good chance you don't quite know what you're talking about.


I grew up poor and in a major city, and I went to law school with a bunch of people from wealthier backgrounds who were raised in rural areas. People fished, hunted, etc., while I (privately) support banning all guns. So, I had a double level of culture clash. Did this affect my conversations? Sure. I'm positive that I would have interacted in a different way if there were no cultural differences. But at no point did I ever feel crippled or at a disadvantage. I acted normal and always managed to find something to talk about.

While it's absolutely true people can minimize cultural differences, it's equally true that cultural differences can be inflated.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?bf to

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:20 pm

zhenders wrote:This thread is so strange. I feel like it's a case study gold mine for anyone studying implicit bias and trying to convey what it is, what it can look like, and how it matters.

It's very clear that nearly all of the comments in this thread are both well-intentioned and honest, which is wonderful. Yet at the same time, there's this thread of "but [insert class difference here ] is not s big deal, really" that is kind of apparent for anyone reading through this who has genuinely felt like a cultural outsider.

It's very difficult to appreciate how big the little things are. We discuss this all anecdotally (Europe trips, for instance) as though it's possible to consider any of this free from context. Sure, no one cultural dissimilarity may appear to be a big deal, and yes, they often can be overcome by taking on certain attitudes or contrivances, but the points are they (1) lots of small things, taken collectively, add up to big rifts that are simultaneously very difficult to identify precisely BECAUSE they are comprised of lots of small things, and (2) any energy expenditure (actual, emotional, intellectual, or all of the above) is an expenditure one person has to make that others don't, just to achieve baseline social dynamics.

Also, the cultural differences between being actually poor, and being middle class or what-have-you (whatever middle class means) are actually bigger and more numerous than people realize. There are a million examples of this. Europe trips are good examples: the idea of riding in a plane at all, let alone taking one to Europe, let alone doing so to vacation, is very commonplace for some folks, but literally completely outside of the realm of possibility for others. As another example, when I grew up, "going to college" meant "taking classes at the local community college." I didn't learn that some undergrads were better than others until 3 years into undergrad; the thought never crossed my mind: in my family, going to college at all meant you had achieved the height of life success: it meant you might get a salary job one day, instead of just an hourly job.

Anyways... I'm just saying, if you catch yourself thinking that it's not that hard to be _____ in America (or in Biglaw, or in the law, or anywhere), there's a good chance you don't quite know what you're talking about.


Socioeconomic background isn't the only differentiator though. I don't watch sports, at least I don't follow them closely. That excludes me from a lot of conversations. I never went to a high school in America. I missed the whole Snapchat/instagram/twitter boat; I don't use any of that stuff. I can't play golf to save my life.

Everybody has to overcome some kind of cultural barrier. Socioeconomic is one. Racial is another. Gender is another. There are lots. Whatever you think the "baseline" is, almost everyone has to expend some energy to get there. Maybe a rich white rennaisance man doesn't, but that's an exception that proves the rule.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:11 pm

Do people in this thread get that the OP was describing his own reaction to people/his situation, and not saying that his was the only kind of cultural clash/disadvantage out there? Of course class isn't the only differentiator; no one has said this, at all. The OP also hasn't claimed that class was the only issue at play or that he was facing some kind of invidious prejudice from the silver-spooned. It's more that now, being in a bad spot emotionally, he can't help but wonder if that made a difference. I was way older than most of my law school classmates, and I don't think people treated me differently, but when things go pear-shaped it's natural to wonder whether that difference played a part.

And while some people are better at negotiating the differences than others, I don't know how to read "People can and do exaggerate class to justify or rationalize their inability to engage with members of that class, when the likely problem is the person rather than actual class differences" as anything other than blaming someone for their issues here.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby pancakes3 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:16 pm

"natural to wonder whether that difference played a part" shifts to "delusional" somewhere between going 0/1 and going 0/24 though.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Npret » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Second, your attitude you displayed here might have come off in the interview. You have to understand that the vast majority of people in law school come from well off backgrounds. They didn't have to worry about making ends meet, or working shitty jobs, or anything like that. Their "hard work" was the prep class for the ACT and LSAT, or some unpaid internship at a nonprofit they got to enjoy because, "like, I totes already got money so why not help those poor people. Totes looks great on the resume." I once overheard a girl at my law school complaining how she forgot to bring the right shoes on her recent trip to Belize and almost died from trying to figure out logistically how she would meet up with her parents back in the U.S. because they were coming in from the virgin islands a day later. She. Totes. Almost. Died. Man! So people from this type of background, probably the same ones you're complaining about on your law review, are the norm in the legal profession. And, as I've realized, no matter how much better you are than them at legal research and writing, grades, law review, hard work, etc., you won't succeed unless you pretend to like them and be like them. That means learning stupid follow up questions or phrases like, "Oh wow! Tell me more about your ski trip to aspen." Or, " I'm sorry to hear that. I also can't stand it when I reserve a Tee time on the golf course but my assistant has to take a sick day so I can't go." You already likely don't have these experiences to start with so you can't share any of your own, so if you don't get used to being "interested" in their experiences, then you'll be the silent weirdo in convos who has nothing to contribute and is awkward working with. So put on that fake ass overly professional, oh-this-old-thing-I-got-while-backpacking-through-europe? facade and go get yourself a firm job!


Yeah, I wondered how much that fact played in, I do not have a lot of experience in the well-heeled set, and the fit issue probably killed me, not being in the same age/life experience group as the other interviewees. I think sometimes I let the class issue get in my head too much, like I was striving too hard to make myself into something I am not.

Maybe the stars of prestige and big salary got in my eyes and that showed up in my interviews, I was too eager to show that, given the opportunity, I could play in the land of BMW's and Vineyard Vines.

I am going to keep digging and hustling. Hopefully, I can find my "thing" out there where I can do good work, do it reasonably well, and not desire to claw my eyeballs out every other day.

It's not everyday I feel crappy about stuff, usually just when more law review drudgery pops up. For some reason, law review "triggers" all my class insecurities. I am sure everyone can see my (metaphorical) red neck no matter how nice my suit is.


It sounds like you were the one creating a fit issue. Do you have some examples of what you think you did or said?

How introverted are you? Could that have been an issue in interviews?


So, I did about 24 OCI interviews. I had gone to networking things and met some of the people I interviewed with briefly. I felt like a lot of the time it was "tell me about yourself" and I would respond with my story which is nowhere typical for a law student. Then maybe a few follow up questions if I was lucky, and "do you have any questions for us?"

I would ask some stuff about firm culture, how work assignments were, could I try out transactional and litigation, some of that, and BOOM! interview over. Having been in another field, I felt like the interviews were vastly different from what I had experienced before. Maybe I screwed up by having scripted questions to ask. Maybe I asked the wrong questions.

I had a mock interview with an alum about halfway through OCI. He told me I wasn't weird or anything and that I didn't get a shot with their firm because of an interest in a specialized field that they don't hire summer associates for, only former clerks.

From what I understand, a lot of the OCI process is fit, and with a non-traditional background, an age difference, and expressing interest in specialized practice areas, I am sure I just didn't look like a fit.

Maybe they were right, and they are looking for young bucks or buckettes to get in there and work the insane hours without question. Maybe as an older person, they were afraid I wouldn't be that. Someone told me they were looking for someone they wouldn't mind being stuck in an airport in Des Moines with, and apparently, I failed at conveying in fifteen to twenty minutes how awesome I would be to hang with on an extended layover in Des Moines.

Meh. A lot of it was going to the G-D law review meetings and being subjected to the inanity of all that. I am almost done with that part of my life and I will try to focus instead on what is coming next.


Yes I agree focus on what's next but I still think you might benefit from improving interviewing like everyone else.
When asked "tell me about yourself" be brief and focus on good aspects of your life. You don't tell your life story- but it's very hard to give feedback this generically.
Also don't mention specialized practice but you know that already.

I know there are interview tips here. You are absolutely correct, biglaw interviews are different than other interview.

Have you continued to mass mail? Are you looking for ckerkships?

You come across as a decent person in your posts and I hope everything works out for you. It's only human to be bitter when everyone around you is talking about their future high salary job.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:51 pm

pancakes3 wrote:"natural to wonder whether that difference played a part" shifts to "delusional" somewhere between going 0/1 and going 0/24 though.

Nah. I'm not saying that the OP was thinking, "I didn't get hired because interviewers were classist jerks who judged me;" more like if you're interviewing poorly, it's fair to wonder if one of the reasons you're interviewing poorly is because of the class difference. You wonder if you are doing something wrong that makes you stand out, but you don't know what it is because you aren't from a context/culture where you would know - or at least, you worry if that's the case, even if it's not.

Also, I'm not saying doing better was *outside of his control,* but the things he may have been able to control could well arise from class differences, not just him being him or something.

And face it, he wasn't ever going to go 24/24 at SMU. You don't have the same margin of error as at top schools.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:28 am

For the record I'm also a 2L at SMU and don't know of anyone who had 24 screeners. It's also nearly implossible not to be able to find a small firm in DFW willing to take you on part time during the year/summer because there are so many <10 man/woman shops around. We've had tons of symplicity postings and it's easy to fire off emails to firms around. Either OP is hugely exaggerating or flame.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Phil Brooks » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:31 am

What percentage of people are poor because of bad choices that they made and what percentage of people are poor because they never got a decent chance at life?

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For the record I'm also a 2L at SMU and don't know of anyone who had 24 screeners. It's also nearly implossible not to be able to find a small firm in DFW willing to take you on part time during the year/summer because there are so many <10 man/woman shops around. We've had tons of symplicity postings and it's easy to fire off emails to firms around. Either OP is hugely exaggerating or flame.


OP here, i got the small firm thing going, but there is a huge difference in salary. (3X!)

No flame, as we have established here, I just pretty much suck. Did Houston and Dallas OCI. Look around campus for the giant ball of suck in your classes, that's me!

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:41 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:What percentage of people are poor because of bad choices that they made and what percentage of people are poor because they never got a decent chance at life?


OP here, it is all bad choices. Maybe in my life I made three good choices. Someday, I will write a memoir on the litany of horrible choices I have made in life. Personal responsibility, yo!

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Finch123 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:00 pm

This is a really interesting conversation. I'll just weigh in anecdotally and say that I did really well at OCI and I would 100% say that class played a role in that. I mean, I've done well academically and I go to Berkeley so I won't dismiss those as insignificant, but in my experience the interviews were much less about academic performance and much more about me making the interviewer feel comfortable/happy/interested in me, and that's something that I was good at because I've essentially been doing it my whole life -- these were people who could very easily have been my or my parents' friends. Moreover, I've been fortunate to have done a lot of things in life, including having a really interesting (and low-paying) job before law school and going on cool trips/participating in cool hobbies, that 1) were ultimately accessible only because of family money; 2) were interesting to my interviewers; and 3) I KNEW they would be interesting to my interviewers and I knew how to emphasize them on my resume and during the interview because it's basically what I've been doing my whole life at cocktail/holiday parties.

This is not to say that you need these things to be successful in getting a biglaw job out of law school since there are certainly things you can do and ways you can frame your story if you're coming from a less privileged background that would be just - if not more - effective, but if you're a bit younger and you haven't had prior exposure to help you understand what an interviewer might be looking for, I would imagine that it would be a lot more work and a lot more stressful.

My firm had an OCI event last summer during my stint as a summer associate, and they sent us all the resumes from the students attending. I read through them and circled the things that caught my attention, which were mostly prior jobs and things in the "interests" section. I then sought out the people whose resumes I had marked. I hope these weren't exclusively kids from the upper middle class, but a lot of these things likely could not have been done without some financial support from their parents - for example, I was more likely to want to talk to the kid who had developed the documentary about orphans in South Korea after undergrad than the kid who had worked at Enterprise for two years. Having read this thread, I hope to be more aware in the future, but I will also say to OP and others worried who haven't yet done OCI that having something slightly unexpected or interesting on your resume (or just ready to share in an interview) would likely be helpful. This doesn't have to be that cycling trip you took through Europe after graduation -- it can be an academic interest that you're pursuing with a faculty member, or a student group that you're helping to start, or volunteer work you're doing. You just need to be ready to talk about it and make it interesting -- show that you're passionate and capture the interviewer's attention so that they want to ask more questions. And actually know what you're talking about -- I had one interview where it came up that I was doing research for this one faculty member (along with a number of other students in my class), and the interviewer asked me to explain the research topic. I did, and the interviewer told me that he had interviewed a few other people who were also doing research for this faculty member and I was the first person who was actually able to explain the research. Not good.

tl;dr: OP may have a legitimate grievance w/r/t the role that class plays in the interview process, at least from looking at my own experience. My advice would be to focus on having something interesting on your resume that stands out from the crowd, which gives the interviewer something to ask about, which will lead to a longer conversation where the interviewer gets the opportunity to be impressed by your passion/intelligence/verbal ferocity and hopefully result in a more successful outcome.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For the record I'm also a 2L at SMU and don't know of anyone who had 24 screeners. It's also nearly implossible not to be able to find a small firm in DFW willing to take you on part time during the year/summer because there are so many <10 man/woman shops around. We've had tons of symplicity postings and it's easy to fire off emails to firms around. Either OP is hugely exaggerating or flame.


OP here, i got the small firm thing going, but there is a huge difference in salary. (3X!)

No flame, as we have established here, I just pretty much suck. Did Houston and Dallas OCI. Look around campus for the giant ball of suck in your classes, that's me!


I'm in the anon you replied to. Most people have been talking about cultural differences here, etc. but you need to get over this self pity bullshit. I know your situation sucks, because I struck out at OCI as well. I have bad days to. But "the giant ball of suck" is too far. You're not defined by OCI or your pay. Grow up and just start (keep?) grinding. Keep mailing. Kill it at your small firm. See what firms are doing OCI again for 3L's in August. Apply everywhere again in August. Wallowing in this isn't going to help. This is your problem, nothing cultural or social. I'm sure this started to show after a few screeners and I'd be willing to bet that's what you struck out on the rest.



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