Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

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sublime

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby sublime » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:54 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:PnJ, the point isn't that you (or anyone else who's gone to Europe) looks down on someone for not going to Europe, and no one even claimed that was the case. The point is just that class is real and creates differences that you can't simply will away. The person who hasn't gone feels different when they're the only person at the table who can't share that experience (and especially when everyone else at the table assumes everyone can go to Europe if they want).

I also agree that there are communities more and less hung up on this stuff. Moving back to the northeast after being in the Midwest and west for many years, people here do tend to care about things like school name and so on more than other places I've lived.


That's been my experience with the northeast too, although it's hard to separate that from the profession for me.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:57 pm

Nebby wrote:WUSTL is a pretty economically diverse school, after all


Hahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahaha I just laughed out loud.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby sublime » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Nebby wrote:WUSTL is a pretty economically diverse school, after all


Hahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahaha I just laughed out loud.


Don't abuse the anon feature

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:06 pm

nunumaster wrote:How do people feel about changing their social class? I.e. Coming from poverty to getting big law? I dropped atleast 8k traveling last year and I feel kind of guilty when I tell my parents I'm going on a trip.


I try to share my money with my family as much as possible, subject to paying off my loans. I haven't taken a trip anywhere big or anything for myself. But I did run into a few class based problems. I went out with friends and family and bought a round of drinks that was about $60. A cousin of mine got into an argument with me later and accused me of acting like a "big shot" just cause I went to some "fancy school." When I tried explaining law related stuff to my family they also don't understand it even on a fundamental level. For example, my parents were upset about me clerking because they thought lawyers don't do that, secretaries do, and I was being a fool for not going to a firm. Anything other than a firm isn't legal work. Or when I say I was doing a clinic or have an article published, they ask immediately how much I'm getting paid for that and can't understand why it's free. So it sometimes feels like shit cause the more I'm a successful lawyer the more distance there is between me and my family, and it's starting to be difficult having some conversations or interactions.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Hikikomorist » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:06 pm

I love TLS so much. Never change, guys.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Hikikomorist » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:08 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:Also, you know, the idea that, even if you have it, you can just blow $3500 on a vacation immediately before embarking on a $200k graduate program.


The $3500 spent is in lieu of your regular monthly expenses (rent, food, insurance, incidental expenses, entertainment, etc.). So you're "blowing" about 1k, which seems worth an entire month in Europe.

I also happened to have a big fat scholarship, which is what justified the trip for me, so it certainly wasn't a $200k graduate program.

My larger point is that not having gone to Europe isn't the social handicap people make it out to be, it doesn't brand you as a plebeian poor, and it doesn't mean that everybody who has gone to Europe is some spoiled silver-platter brat.

How would you know whether it's a handicap, as someone who has gone to Europe?

Did you know that 2/3 of Americans don't even have passports? You don't have to be a silver platter brat, but you're in rare company.

I don't think there is anything magical about visiting Europe, but the ability to drop thousands of dollars on international vacations is a privilege that many people don't have - - even many people who go to law school!

The fact that you might not think it is remarkable to spend a month in Europe speaks to the social class of people you associate with.


I know it's not a social handicap because as someone who has been to Europe, I don't think less of anyone who hasn't. You might be excluded from a conversation about Europe between people who have been, but I've never been to a live Superbowl/NBA Final/World Championship game, so I'm excluded from conversations between people who have. I've never been to a Beyonce concert, so I'm excluded from those conversations. It's not a "social handicap" to not have had certain experiences.

And it's not particularly remarkable to spend $3500 in one month (total) if you've saved up for it and plan to treat yourself before you start 1L. What you do during that month is up to you.

Where is this "drop thousands of dollars"? Do I need to remind you what "in lieu of" means?

My girlfriend didn't have a passport, but her family is certainly upper middle class. Growing up, they went to Disney once a year. Not having passports means nothing.

@Nony, my point is if someone deduces that a majority of law students are rich spoiled brats because they went to Europe, then that is a faulty conclusion. Looking around my school parking lot, any BMW/Audi is owned by an international student. The "median" car is like a 2010 civic (of the people who own cars; plenty of my friends don't own cars and bike/walk/public transit to school). Where are all these rich oil baron kids?

Yes, if you come from POVERTY, you will be unique in law school. But I don't understand people who blame their lack of friendship/interviewing skills/etc. on not having a combined family income of over 6 figs. I took a cab to my prom. I didn't own a car until my 2nd year of undergrad, and it was a 1997 Camary. I'd say my "class" (whatever you call it) is the majority in law school.

A low six-figure family income makes you feel kind of poor at most elite schools.
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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Hikikomorist » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:09 pm

nunumaster wrote:How do people feel about changing their social class? I.e. Coming from poverty to getting big law? I dropped atleast 8k traveling last year and I feel kind of guilty when I tell my parents I'm going on a trip.

Pretty sure I'll still live like I'm lower middle class.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby lavarman84 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:02 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:I know it's not a social handicap because as someone who has been to Europe, I don't think less of anyone who hasn't. You might be excluded from a conversation about Europe between people who have been, but I've never been to a live Superbowl/NBA Final/World Championship game, so I'm excluded from conversations between people who have. I've never been to a Beyonce concert, so I'm excluded from those conversations. It's not a "social handicap" to not have had certain experiences.


It's also really easy to still include yourself in the conversation even when you haven't had experienced it, especially in an interview. All you have to do is ask questions, seem interested, and wait for something you actually can discuss in more detail.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby sublime » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:13 pm

lawman84 wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:I know it's not a social handicap because as someone who has been to Europe, I don't think less of anyone who hasn't. You might be excluded from a conversation about Europe between people who have been, but I've never been to a live Superbowl/NBA Final/World Championship game, so I'm excluded from conversations between people who have. I've never been to a Beyonce concert, so I'm excluded from those conversations. It's not a "social handicap" to not have had certain experiences.


It's also really easy to still include yourself in the conversation even when you haven't had experienced it, especially in an interview. All you have to do is ask questions, seem interested, and wait for something you actually can discuss in more detail.


Yea, it's really not that big of a deal. Although it is a thing.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby lavarman84 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:17 pm

sublime wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:I know it's not a social handicap because as someone who has been to Europe, I don't think less of anyone who hasn't. You might be excluded from a conversation about Europe between people who have been, but I've never been to a live Superbowl/NBA Final/World Championship game, so I'm excluded from conversations between people who have. I've never been to a Beyonce concert, so I'm excluded from those conversations. It's not a "social handicap" to not have had certain experiences.


It's also really easy to still include yourself in the conversation even when you haven't had experienced it, especially in an interview. All you have to do is ask questions, seem interested, and wait for something you actually can discuss in more detail.


Yea, it's really not that big of a deal. Although it is a thing.


Definitely. It's advantageous if you can respond to the partner's comment about vacationing in Aspen with, "Oh, I was just in Aspen last year." And then have a conversation in detail about Aspen with him. But you can still carry a conversation even if you haven't been to Aspen.

I'm just kind of making the point that class definitely gives advantages, but if you felt like you struggled to carry a conversation due to that reason, you have other issues you need to work on.(and I don't mean that in an insulting way)

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:22 pm

sublime wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:I know it's not a social handicap because as someone who has been to Europe, I don't think less of anyone who hasn't. You might be excluded from a conversation about Europe between people who have been, but I've never been to a live Superbowl/NBA Final/World Championship game, so I'm excluded from conversations between people who have. I've never been to a Beyonce concert, so I'm excluded from those conversations. It's not a "social handicap" to not have had certain experiences.


It's also really easy to still include yourself in the conversation even when you haven't had experienced it, especially in an interview. All you have to do is ask questions, seem interested, and wait for something you actually can discuss in more detail.


Yea, it's really not that big of a deal. Although it is a thing.


Age matters. It's easier to laugh it off if you're young. Tougher to laugh it off if you're old. My dad's 63 years old and has never been to Europe and he's a $200k+ earner.

And it's not just Europe, it's everything. Skiing, owns a boat, "summering" somewhere... WASPs..

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:24 pm

I mean, I'm one of those going-to-Europe people, so it's not something I've personally experienced. But when a bunch of people I know who grew up really working class/rural/poor tell me that it's a thing that makes it harder to fit into a given atmosphere, I'm not going to tell them it's not a big deal and they can just adjust.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby sublime » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:24 pm

Yea but I mean in your legal career. It helps but doesn't matter that much. And I've done none of those things. My best friend has never seen snow or been on a plane. It's crazy.

ETA: that was to pancakes.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby laqueredup » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:36 pm

.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby star fox » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:27 pm

JFC PNJ. What on earth are you blabbering about?

And whether you're a country bumpkin in a room full of high-earners talking about their yachts or an urban rich guy in a room full of people talking about hunting season and their favorite rifle, you gotta learn how to at least feign interest and ask questions... that doesn't mean you gotta be totally fake.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby LurkerTurnedMember » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:42 am

This is an interesting topic. Assuming your coworkers or bosses aren't outright classist, the implicit barriers people are talking about I think are similar to when you strongly don't share the same interests with someone. Imagine you're in a group and you and your friends love going out, partying, having drinks, and watching college hoops. It's March Madness so you're talking about it all the time and you wanna go out this weekend and drink. Thwn there's that one coworker who likes star trek and reading nonfiction, can't name a single bball player, and hasn't watched a single March Madness game. Apart from these specific differences, you can already start to see a difference of who "fits in" and where. So you're having a convo among everyone. Obviously it'll turn toward going out this weekend, March Madness, and all that. Imagine that star trek guy there. He's asking questions about March Madness. No matter how many questions he asks to pretend to be interested, you'll know he's not into it, and he's the odd man out. And there's gonna be that "fit" barrier. With class, it's even worse because you don't choose it.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby star fox » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:42 am

LurkerTurnedMember wrote:This is an interesting topic. Assuming your coworkers or bosses aren't outright classist, the implicit barriers people are talking about I think are similar to when you strongly don't share the same interests with someone. Imagine you're in a group and you and your friends love going out, partying, having drinks, and watching college hoops. It's March Madness so you're talking about it all the time and you wanna go out this weekend and drink. Thwn there's that one coworker who likes star trek and reading nonfiction, can't name a single bball player, and hasn't watched a single March Madness game. Apart from these specific differences, you can already start to see a difference of who "fits in" and where. So you're having a convo among everyone. Obviously it'll turn toward going out this weekend, March Madness, and all that. Imagine that star trek guy there. He's asking questions about March Madness. No matter how many questions he asks to pretend to be interested, you'll know he's not into it, and he's the odd man out. And there's gonna be that "fit" barrier. With class, it's even worse because you don't choose it.

Well a job isn't a social club so you don't gotta become best friends with everyone you just gotta do enough in the interview, callback lunch or whatever to seem like a solid person to be around.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby foregetaboutdre » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:51 am

pancakes3 wrote:
sublime wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:I know it's not a social handicap because as someone who has been to Europe, I don't think less of anyone who hasn't. You might be excluded from a conversation about Europe between people who have been, but I've never been to a live Superbowl/NBA Final/World Championship game, so I'm excluded from conversations between people who have. I've never been to a Beyonce concert, so I'm excluded from those conversations. It's not a "social handicap" to not have had certain experiences.


It's also really easy to still include yourself in the conversation even when you haven't had experienced it, especially in an interview. All you have to do is ask questions, seem interested, and wait for something you actually can discuss in more detail.


Yea, it's really not that big of a deal. Although it is a thing.


Age matters. It's easier to laugh it off if you're young. Tougher to laugh it off if you're old. My dad's 63 years old and has never been to Europe and he's a $200k+ earner.

And it's not just Europe, it's everything. Skiing, owns a boat, "summering" somewhere... WASPs..


Father-in-law is also one of those people. 200k+ earner. Never has been to Europe and has absolutely no desire to go lol. I think Howard Stern is another example. Close to a billionaire, has never been to Europe. Rarely even leaves NYC.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby nunumaster » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:50 pm

sublime wrote:
nunumaster wrote:How do people feel about changing their social class? I.e. Coming from poverty to getting big law? I dropped atleast 8k traveling last year and I feel kind of guilty when I tell my parents I'm going on a trip.


I was never impoverished, and my family was pretty solidly upper middle class growing up but in biglaw I do run into a lot of people from a much wealthier background. It really isn't a big deal, although I will say that I am friendly with most everybody at the firm, I prefer hanging out with my friends outside of work and a lot of that is diversity of all kinds, but most of them work in restaurants or are stagehands. I am so much more comfortable drinking well whiskey at a shitty bar with those people (they're like the people I grew up around) than I am at my firms cocktail happyhours with cheese plates, champagne, and single malt.

ETA: to be clear, I'm not really complaining or blaming anyone, as I really appreciate having friends that are more "normal people" but I've never been comfortable at higher class things, and most of my colleagues seem to be more comfortable and have more experience at that type of thing. I also have no idea if I answered your question or just rambled.


I haven't started working yet, so Idk how I'd mesh with people at the law firm, but the first year associates seemed pretty chill to hang out with from what I remember from the summer. I still don't feel that comfortable hanging out with clearly old money people and most of my friends are diverse, even those in law school. I did notice that I don't feel that comfortable hanging out with some older groups of friends I've had in the past in HS, but that's because we don't have many things in common anymore (i.e. they didn't go to college, they can't afford to go out to the same places, they're conspiracy theorists that just smoke weed all day, etc.). I felt guilty about that, but I think that's just a normal part of growing older, and not really classist?

Anonymous User wrote:
I try to share my money with my family as much as possible, subject to paying off my loans. I haven't taken a trip anywhere big or anything for myself. But I did run into a few class based problems. I went out with friends and family and bought a round of drinks that was about $60. A cousin of mine got into an argument with me later and accused me of acting like a "big shot" just cause I went to some "fancy school." When I tried explaining law related stuff to my family they also don't understand it even on a fundamental level. For example, my parents were upset about me clerking because they thought lawyers don't do that, secretaries do, and I was being a fool for not going to a firm. Anything other than a firm isn't legal work. Or when I say I was doing a clinic or have an article published, they ask immediately how much I'm getting paid for that and can't understand why it's free. So it sometimes feels like shit cause the more I'm a successful lawyer the more distance there is between me and my family, and it's starting to be difficult having some conversations or interactions.



Yea I think this is my experience too. I don't really talk about my job or law school at all besides general statements. I don't think it's necessarily class based, but more like education. My parent's are immigrants who didn't go to college and I've always felt like I haven't had that type of conversational relationship with them. They're incredibly proud though and I love helping out financially, and I think that's all that matters.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Npret » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Second, your attitude you displayed here might have come off in the interview. You have to understand that the vast majority of people in law school come from well off backgrounds. They didn't have to worry about making ends meet, or working shitty jobs, or anything like that. Their "hard work" was the prep class for the ACT and LSAT, or some unpaid internship at a nonprofit they got to enjoy because, "like, I totes already got money so why not help those poor people. Totes looks great on the resume." I once overheard a girl at my law school complaining how she forgot to bring the right shoes on her recent trip to Belize and almost died from trying to figure out logistically how she would meet up with her parents back in the U.S. because they were coming in from the virgin islands a day later. She. Totes. Almost. Died. Man! So people from this type of background, probably the same ones you're complaining about on your law review, are the norm in the legal profession. And, as I've realized, no matter how much better you are than them at legal research and writing, grades, law review, hard work, etc., you won't succeed unless you pretend to like them and be like them. That means learning stupid follow up questions or phrases like, "Oh wow! Tell me more about your ski trip to aspen." Or, " I'm sorry to hear that. I also can't stand it when I reserve a Tee time on the golf course but my assistant has to take a sick day so I can't go." You already likely don't have these experiences to start with so you can't share any of your own, so if you don't get used to being "interested" in their experiences, then you'll be the silent weirdo in convos who has nothing to contribute and is awkward working with. So put on that fake ass overly professional, oh-this-old-thing-I-got-while-backpacking-through-europe? facade and go get yourself a firm job!


Yeah, I wondered how much that fact played in, I do not have a lot of experience in the well-heeled set, and the fit issue probably killed me, not being in the same age/life experience group as the other interviewees. I think sometimes I let the class issue get in my head too much, like I was striving too hard to make myself into something I am not.

Maybe the stars of prestige and big salary got in my eyes and that showed up in my interviews, I was too eager to show that, given the opportunity, I could play in the land of BMW's and Vineyard Vines.

I am going to keep digging and hustling. Hopefully, I can find my "thing" out there where I can do good work, do it reasonably well, and not desire to claw my eyeballs out every other day.

It's not everyday I feel crappy about stuff, usually just when more law review drudgery pops up. For some reason, law review "triggers" all my class insecurities. I am sure everyone can see my (metaphorical) red neck no matter how nice my suit is.


It sounds like you were the one creating a fit issue. Do you have some examples of what you think you did or said?

How introverted are you? Could that have been an issue in interviews?

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:33 am

Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Second, your attitude you displayed here might have come off in the interview. You have to understand that the vast majority of people in law school come from well off backgrounds. They didn't have to worry about making ends meet, or working shitty jobs, or anything like that. Their "hard work" was the prep class for the ACT and LSAT, or some unpaid internship at a nonprofit they got to enjoy because, "like, I totes already got money so why not help those poor people. Totes looks great on the resume." I once overheard a girl at my law school complaining how she forgot to bring the right shoes on her recent trip to Belize and almost died from trying to figure out logistically how she would meet up with her parents back in the U.S. because they were coming in from the virgin islands a day later. She. Totes. Almost. Died. Man! So people from this type of background, probably the same ones you're complaining about on your law review, are the norm in the legal profession. And, as I've realized, no matter how much better you are than them at legal research and writing, grades, law review, hard work, etc., you won't succeed unless you pretend to like them and be like them. That means learning stupid follow up questions or phrases like, "Oh wow! Tell me more about your ski trip to aspen." Or, " I'm sorry to hear that. I also can't stand it when I reserve a Tee time on the golf course but my assistant has to take a sick day so I can't go." You already likely don't have these experiences to start with so you can't share any of your own, so if you don't get used to being "interested" in their experiences, then you'll be the silent weirdo in convos who has nothing to contribute and is awkward working with. So put on that fake ass overly professional, oh-this-old-thing-I-got-while-backpacking-through-europe? facade and go get yourself a firm job!


Yeah, I wondered how much that fact played in, I do not have a lot of experience in the well-heeled set, and the fit issue probably killed me, not being in the same age/life experience group as the other interviewees. I think sometimes I let the class issue get in my head too much, like I was striving too hard to make myself into something I am not.

Maybe the stars of prestige and big salary got in my eyes and that showed up in my interviews, I was too eager to show that, given the opportunity, I could play in the land of BMW's and Vineyard Vines.

I am going to keep digging and hustling. Hopefully, I can find my "thing" out there where I can do good work, do it reasonably well, and not desire to claw my eyeballs out every other day.

It's not everyday I feel crappy about stuff, usually just when more law review drudgery pops up. For some reason, law review "triggers" all my class insecurities. I am sure everyone can see my (metaphorical) red neck no matter how nice my suit is.


It sounds like you were the one creating a fit issue. Do you have some examples of what you think you did or said?

How introverted are you? Could that have been an issue in interviews?


OP I empathize with you. I feel like this is a problem especially common for those like us who aren't from the same backgrounds/wealth/etc. as the stereotypical law student.

That being said, I think that you should look at things a little differently. Part of what I noticed was going poorly for me at first was that I was trying too hard/overdoing some of the attempts to fit in. A large part of it is being calm and at ease around the various cultural details that we're not used to. I would highly advise relaxing and just generally being personable around people (and maybe tone down some of your perceptions of "BMW's and Vineyard Vines"). More often than not, I think that people are aware that lawyers are coming from an increasingly diverse set of backgrounds and as long as you're generally normal/can carry on a normal conversation, you should be good.

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:10 pm

Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Second, your attitude you displayed here might have come off in the interview. You have to understand that the vast majority of people in law school come from well off backgrounds. They didn't have to worry about making ends meet, or working shitty jobs, or anything like that. Their "hard work" was the prep class for the ACT and LSAT, or some unpaid internship at a nonprofit they got to enjoy because, "like, I totes already got money so why not help those poor people. Totes looks great on the resume." I once overheard a girl at my law school complaining how she forgot to bring the right shoes on her recent trip to Belize and almost died from trying to figure out logistically how she would meet up with her parents back in the U.S. because they were coming in from the virgin islands a day later. She. Totes. Almost. Died. Man! So people from this type of background, probably the same ones you're complaining about on your law review, are the norm in the legal profession. And, as I've realized, no matter how much better you are than them at legal research and writing, grades, law review, hard work, etc., you won't succeed unless you pretend to like them and be like them. That means learning stupid follow up questions or phrases like, "Oh wow! Tell me more about your ski trip to aspen." Or, " I'm sorry to hear that. I also can't stand it when I reserve a Tee time on the golf course but my assistant has to take a sick day so I can't go." You already likely don't have these experiences to start with so you can't share any of your own, so if you don't get used to being "interested" in their experiences, then you'll be the silent weirdo in convos who has nothing to contribute and is awkward working with. So put on that fake ass overly professional, oh-this-old-thing-I-got-while-backpacking-through-europe? facade and go get yourself a firm job!


Yeah, I wondered how much that fact played in, I do not have a lot of experience in the well-heeled set, and the fit issue probably killed me, not being in the same age/life experience group as the other interviewees. I think sometimes I let the class issue get in my head too much, like I was striving too hard to make myself into something I am not.

Maybe the stars of prestige and big salary got in my eyes and that showed up in my interviews, I was too eager to show that, given the opportunity, I could play in the land of BMW's and Vineyard Vines.

I am going to keep digging and hustling. Hopefully, I can find my "thing" out there where I can do good work, do it reasonably well, and not desire to claw my eyeballs out every other day.

It's not everyday I feel crappy about stuff, usually just when more law review drudgery pops up. For some reason, law review "triggers" all my class insecurities. I am sure everyone can see my (metaphorical) red neck no matter how nice my suit is.


It sounds like you were the one creating a fit issue. Do you have some examples of what you think you did or said?

How introverted are you? Could that have been an issue in interviews?


So, I did about 24 OCI interviews. I had gone to networking things and met some of the people I interviewed with briefly. I felt like a lot of the time it was "tell me about yourself" and I would respond with my story which is nowhere typical for a law student. Then maybe a few follow up questions if I was lucky, and "do you have any questions for us?"

I would ask some stuff about firm culture, how work assignments were, could I try out transactional and litigation, some of that, and BOOM! interview over. Having been in another field, I felt like the interviews were vastly different from what I had experienced before. Maybe I screwed up by having scripted questions to ask. Maybe I asked the wrong questions.

I had a mock interview with an alum about halfway through OCI. He told me I wasn't weird or anything and that I didn't get a shot with their firm because of an interest in a specialized field that they don't hire summer associates for, only former clerks.

From what I understand, a lot of the OCI process is fit, and with a non-traditional background, an age difference, and expressing interest in specialized practice areas, I am sure I just didn't look like a fit.

Maybe they were right, and they are looking for young bucks or buckettes to get in there and work the insane hours without question. Maybe as an older person, they were afraid I wouldn't be that. Someone told me they were looking for someone they wouldn't mind being stuck in an airport in Des Moines with, and apparently, I failed at conveying in fifteen to twenty minutes how awesome I would be to hang with on an extended layover in Des Moines.

Meh. A lot of it was going to the G-D law review meetings and being subjected to the inanity of all that. I am almost done with that part of my life and I will try to focus instead on what is coming next.

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So, I did about 24 OCI interviews. I had gone to networking things and met some of the people I interviewed with briefly. I felt like a lot of the time it was "tell me about yourself" and I would respond with my story which is nowhere typical for a law student. Then maybe a few follow up questions if I was lucky, and "do you have any questions for us?"

I would ask some stuff about firm culture, how work assignments were, could I try out transactional and litigation, some of that, and BOOM! interview over. Having been in another field, I felt like the interviews were vastly different from what I had experienced before. Maybe I screwed up by having scripted questions to ask. Maybe I asked the wrong questions.

I had a mock interview with an alum about halfway through OCI. He told me I wasn't weird or anything and that I didn't get a shot with their firm because of an interest in a specialized field that they don't hire summer associates for, only former clerks.

From what I understand, a lot of the OCI process is fit, and with a non-traditional background, an age difference, and expressing interest in specialized practice areas, I am sure I just didn't look like a fit.

Maybe they were right, and they are looking for young bucks or buckettes to get in there and work the insane hours without question. Maybe as an older person, they were afraid I wouldn't be that. Someone told me they were looking for someone they wouldn't mind being stuck in an airport in Des Moines with, and apparently, I failed at conveying in fifteen to twenty minutes how awesome I would be to hang with on an extended layover in Des Moines.

Meh. A lot of it was going to the G-D law review meetings and being subjected to the inanity of all that. I am almost done with that part of my life and I will try to focus instead on what is coming next.


Things that would make you not get callback other than your age or economic background:

- Responding to "tell me something about yourself" with "I'm not a typical law student," which translates into "I'm special and better than the typical law student," regardless of intent. What also matters is your follow-up. "I'm not a typical law student... I'm old and have worked, and I've never been to the EU" is a quick way to get someone to start snoozing during an interview. Better answer: "I grew up without much familial support, and from the moment I graduated high school, I was completely on my own. I worked to earn enough money to go to college, etc." If you manage to sell the "I was poor" background, that will earn you nothing but respect in an interview.

- Idk what "specialized field" means, but saying stuff like "yeah I would really love to do music copyright law" in a Jones Day interview will get you "sorry we don't do that here bye". Don't talk about specialized stuff, unless it's something the firm is known for. And even then, tread carefully.

- If the firm only hires former clerks for some position, you probably said impact lit/appellate lit. That's your problem; you should've done research and known that saying you want to do that is like walking into an interview saying you'd like to be partner in 8 years.

You also said very little about how the first 3/4 of the interview (where the interviewer is asking you questions) goes. It doesn't matter that you ask scripted questions. It matters that you can hold a conversation. Don't blame your lack of ability to interview on your age or socioeconomic background.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:39 pm

TBF, he never said he told interviewers "I'm not a typical law student" or any of the other things you've attributed to him. And it's hard not to worry about whether the thing that makes you different actually makes a difference when there is something that makes you different.

Hikikomorist

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Re: Does Anyone Know How to Get Over Law School Butt Hurt?

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:21 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So, I did about 24 OCI interviews. I had gone to networking things and met some of the people I interviewed with briefly. I felt like a lot of the time it was "tell me about yourself" and I would respond with my story which is nowhere typical for a law student. Then maybe a few follow up questions if I was lucky, and "do you have any questions for us?"

I would ask some stuff about firm culture, how work assignments were, could I try out transactional and litigation, some of that, and BOOM! interview over. Having been in another field, I felt like the interviews were vastly different from what I had experienced before. Maybe I screwed up by having scripted questions to ask. Maybe I asked the wrong questions.

I had a mock interview with an alum about halfway through OCI. He told me I wasn't weird or anything and that I didn't get a shot with their firm because of an interest in a specialized field that they don't hire summer associates for, only former clerks.

From what I understand, a lot of the OCI process is fit, and with a non-traditional background, an age difference, and expressing interest in specialized practice areas, I am sure I just didn't look like a fit.

Maybe they were right, and they are looking for young bucks or buckettes to get in there and work the insane hours without question. Maybe as an older person, they were afraid I wouldn't be that. Someone told me they were looking for someone they wouldn't mind being stuck in an airport in Des Moines with, and apparently, I failed at conveying in fifteen to twenty minutes how awesome I would be to hang with on an extended layover in Des Moines.

Meh. A lot of it was going to the G-D law review meetings and being subjected to the inanity of all that. I am almost done with that part of my life and I will try to focus instead on what is coming next.


Things that would make you not get callback other than your age or economic background:

- Responding to "tell me something about yourself" with "I'm not a typical law student," which translates into "I'm special and better than the typical law student," regardless of intent. What also matters is your follow-up. "I'm not a typical law student... I'm old and have worked, and I've never been to the EU" is a quick way to get someone to start snoozing during an interview. Better answer: "I grew up without much familial support, and from the moment I graduated high school, I was completely on my own. I worked to earn enough money to go to college, etc." If you manage to sell the "I was poor" background, that will earn you nothing but respect in an interview.

- Idk what "specialized field" means, but saying stuff like "yeah I would really love to do music copyright law" in a Jones Day interview will get you "sorry we don't do that here bye". Don't talk about specialized stuff, unless it's something the firm is known for. And even then, tread carefully.

- If the firm only hires former clerks for some position, you probably said impact lit/appellate lit. That's your problem; you should've done research and known that saying you want to do that is like walking into an interview saying you'd like to be partner in 8 years.

You also said very little about how the first 3/4 of the interview (where the interviewer is asking you questions) goes. It doesn't matter that you ask scripted questions. It matters that you can hold a conversation. Don't blame your lack of ability to interview on your age or socioeconomic background.

This is such a weird overreaction to his/her post.



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