Tax Law LLM

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Anonymous User
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Tax Law LLM

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:32 pm

Admitted into LLM in tax law at UCLA, Loyola LA and Georgetown. Don't want to leave LA, it's home and more convenient. Would rather go to UCLA and stay and network in the community. Crazy idea? I'm still a 3L and no solid leads in LA, moving back home to LA after the CA bar in July.

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Alt123
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby Alt123 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:34 pm

I get wanting to stay in LA, but why UCLA over Loyola? Loyola is #5 and UCLA isn't anywhere close to the top 10 for Tax LLM.

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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:41 pm

I'm paying for the name, to some extent. Do people interested in hiring tax LLM's really care about the tax law program itself, unless it's NYU or Georgetown? I like UCLA, I want to stay in LA, and UCLA Law > Loyola Law = So, UCLA? What do you think?

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Alt123
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby Alt123 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm paying for the name, to some extent. Do people interested in hiring tax LLM's really care about the tax law program itself, unless it's NYU or Georgetown? I like UCLA, I want to stay in LA, and UCLA Law > Loyola Law = So, UCLA? What do you think?


As someone going to Loyola/Pepperdine/USD and interested in tax, I can tell you that when people discuss tax llm programs in California they talk about USD or Loyola, because they're specifically talking about the #5/6 tax LLM programs. I think UCLA surely carries a lot of weight for your JD program, but I've never once heard someone mention UCLA when it comes to Tax LLMs. I feel like the weight means more at the JD level, much like how the weight for NYU/GULC means a lot more at the LLM level.

I could be full of shit and completely wrong though, I am just going off of what I know from being down in SoCal. Everyone I've worked with that has an LLM either got it from USD, Loyola, NYU or GULC. I haven't seen too many other places down here.

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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:50 pm

As someone going to Loyola/Pepperdine/USD and interested in tax, I can tell you that when people discuss tax llm programs in California they talk about USD or Loyola, because they're specifically talking about the #5/6 tax LLM programs. I think UCLA surely carries a lot of weight for your JD program, but I've never once heard someone mention UCLA when it comes to Tax LLMs. I feel like the weight means more at the JD level, much like how the weight for NYU/GULC means a lot more at the LLM level.

I could be full of shit and completely wrong though, I am just going off of what I know from being down in SoCal. Everyone I've worked with that has an LLM either got it from USD, Loyola, NYU or GULC. I haven't seen too many other places down here.


Your explanation sounds about right. So, just to be clear, you are going for the tax llm, right? Which of the schools you mentioned are you leaning most towards?

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Alt123
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby Alt123 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
As someone going to Loyola/Pepperdine/USD and interested in tax, I can tell you that when people discuss tax llm programs in California they talk about USD or Loyola, because they're specifically talking about the #5/6 tax LLM programs. I think UCLA surely carries a lot of weight for your JD program, but I've never once heard someone mention UCLA when it comes to Tax LLMs. I feel like the weight means more at the JD level, much like how the weight for NYU/GULC means a lot more at the LLM level.

I could be full of shit and completely wrong though, I am just going off of what I know from being down in SoCal. Everyone I've worked with that has an LLM either got it from USD, Loyola, NYU or GULC. I haven't seen too many other places down here.


Your explanation sounds about right. So, just to be clear, you are going for the tax llm, right? Which of the schools you mentioned are you leaning most towards?


Well, fuck it, I'll out myself I guess. I go to USD and am likely going to finish it there because they offer a joint JD/LLM program so I can finish the tax LLM in one semester. I got accepted into Loyola as well but I am not sure if I want to repeat another semester/pay more in tuition. I currently work in SD but it's not in tax, and I like tax a lot from the tax controversy work I did previously, so I would like to move into that area. I feel like the market is much smaller down here, so I would consider Loyola for that reason of hopefully networking up there, as I assume there would be more opportunities. I haven't heard back from NYU yet, but, I kinda doubt I'll get accepted since I didn't do early admissions.

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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:51 pm

That was brave. I purposefully did not quote you in case you want to delete it later.

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lavarman84
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby lavarman84 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:49 am

I think the Tax LLM rankings are a rare instance where the specialty rankings do matter a lot.

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nealric
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby nealric » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:01 pm

What are you looking to do with your LLM?

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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:43 pm

In the perfect world, I'd merge my tax knowledge with my desire for trial work. I'm also fascinated with areas of white collar crime and tax crimes in general.

I'm not aiming for big law per se, I'd like to work for a mid size law firm that has steady clientele and will give me the opportunity to also try a case or two every year. I'm also interested in tax law policy as it relates to cyber and tech and would like to publish something in that field of law in the near future.

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nealric
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby nealric » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:In the perfect world, I'd merge my tax knowledge with my desire for trial work. I'm also fascinated with areas of white collar crime and tax crimes in general.

I'm not aiming for big law per se, I'd like to work for a mid size law firm that has steady clientele and will give me the opportunity to also try a case or two every year. I'm also interested in tax law policy as it relates to cyber and tech and would like to publish something in that field of law in the near future.


I'm not sure your goal is very realistic.

Criminal tax work is a very, very, niche field. Generally speaking, you REALLY have to thumb your nose at the government to get prosecuted for criminal tax evasion, which means actual prosecutions are not particularly common. There are a few boutiques that have this work as a specialty, but the number of entry level opportunities will be tiny. General (non-tax) white collar prosecutions are MUCH more common.

timesnewboston
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby timesnewboston » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:19 am

Would Gtown tax llm admits mind sharing their stats? I submitted late and I'm still waiting. Really want to stay in DC cuz of SO

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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:01 am

nealric wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:In the perfect world, I'd merge my tax knowledge with my desire for trial work. I'm also fascinated with areas of white collar crime and tax crimes in general.

I'm not aiming for big law per se, I'd like to work for a mid size law firm that has steady clientele and will give me the opportunity to also try a case or two every year. I'm also interested in tax law policy as it relates to cyber and tech and would like to publish something in that field of law in the near future.


I'm not sure your goal is very realistic.

Criminal tax work is a very, very, niche field. Generally speaking, you REALLY have to thumb your nose at the government to get prosecuted for criminal tax evasion, which means actual prosecutions are not particularly common. There are a few boutiques that have this work as a specialty, but the number of entry level opportunities will be tiny. General (non-tax) white collar prosecutions are MUCH more common.


Thanks, yeah I realize that now. Honestly, my biggest challenge at this point is deciding between Loyola and UCLA. I'm getting mixed responses from people in choosing between the two schools. I didn't realize this would be such a difficult decision to make.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:03 am

nealric wrote:What are you looking to do with your LLM?



I'm definitely interested in Tax Law but I'd also like to do some general business litigation/transactional work.

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nealric
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby nealric » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
nealric wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:In the perfect world, I'd merge my tax knowledge with my desire for trial work. I'm also fascinated with areas of white collar crime and tax crimes in general.

I'm not aiming for big law per se, I'd like to work for a mid size law firm that has steady clientele and will give me the opportunity to also try a case or two every year. I'm also interested in tax law policy as it relates to cyber and tech and would like to publish something in that field of law in the near future.


I'm not sure your goal is very realistic.

Criminal tax work is a very, very, niche field. Generally speaking, you REALLY have to thumb your nose at the government to get prosecuted for criminal tax evasion, which means actual prosecutions are not particularly common. There are a few boutiques that have this work as a specialty, but the number of entry level opportunities will be tiny. General (non-tax) white collar prosecutions are MUCH more common.


Thanks, yeah I realize that now. Honestly, my biggest challenge at this point is deciding between Loyola and UCLA. I'm getting mixed responses from people in choosing between the two schools. I didn't realize this would be such a difficult decision to make.


I'd say Georgetown or bust. It's only a year. Don't get an LLM unless you are committed to tax.

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Alt123
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby Alt123 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:49 pm

As someone who is in law school still (so maybe I'm naive here), I can definitely see the allure of NYU/GULC especially for landing a first job. However, I think OP might be in the same predicament as myself - she/he wants to say in CA. According to NYU's employment statistics, only about 10% of their graduates end up in the pacific region... the large majority go to either DC/NYC/NY/NJ/PA.

I feel like this is the same thing with regional JD programs. I go to a regional T2 and all of my employers (government and law firms) all only hire from my school and attended themselves or went to another school in the same city. It does seem like regional loyalty is real. I would imagine loyola and UCLA have the same thing going for them in the Los Angeles market, but UCLA likely has a much stronger national pull. I guess my point is, if you are planning to stay in your local market and don't want a job across the country somewhere, does the NYU/GULC name matter? I guess I am not considering big law in this equation, but I know that's much of what TLS focuses on.

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lavarman84
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby lavarman84 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:09 am

Alt123 wrote:As someone who is in law school still (so maybe I'm naive here), I can definitely see the allure of NYU/GULC especially for landing a first job. However, I think OP might be in the same predicament as myself - she/he wants to say in CA. According to NYU's employment statistics, only about 10% of their graduates end up in the pacific region... the large majority go to either DC/NYC/NY/NJ/PA.

I feel like this is the same thing with regional JD programs. I go to a regional T2 and all of my employers (government and law firms) all only hire from my school and attended themselves or went to another school in the same city. It does seem like regional loyalty is real. I would imagine loyola and UCLA have the same thing going for them in the Los Angeles market, but UCLA likely has a much stronger national pull. I guess my point is, if you are planning to stay in your local market and don't want a job across the country somewhere, does the NYU/GULC name matter? I guess I am not considering big law in this equation, but I know that's much of what TLS focuses on.


That's something you'll have to evaluate for yourself by doing research and talking to lawyers in that field in your desired market. I suspect that Loyola probably would do well in its market, but I haven't done the research into that. That's purely based on the rankings, which are a lot more meaningful in the tax world than your typical specialty rankings.

However, a UCLA tax LLM is not going to have national pull unless it's a top program (which it is not). If you want national pull, go to NYU or GULC.

I know this is kind of a non-answer, but your question is looking for a level of specificity that I don't think most can offer.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby SmokeytheBear » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:41 am

Most of what people have told you on here is coming from law students offering their thoughts--not very helpful for you in this situation.

It reads as if you need to do some more research. Pick a dozen law firms you know that you might want to work at. Go to their websites, filter their attorneys either by degree held or their practice field and see where they went to school.

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nealric
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Re: Tax Law LLM

Postby nealric » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:44 am

SmokeytheBear wrote:Most of what people have told you on here is coming from law students offering their thoughts--not very helpful for you in this situation.

It reads as if you need to do some more research. Pick a dozen law firms you know that you might want to work at. Go to their websites, filter their attorneys either by degree held or their practice field and see where they went to school.


Only really works with biglaw. And even the biggest of biglaw firms are only going to have a small handful of tax associates in a given office- not enough to draw meaningful conclusions, especially given that biglaw mostly cares about your JD, and many local LLM graduates will have already been hired prior to the LLM.

Local LLMs can be a reasonable option if you are just looking to expand your existing practice and/or your employer is paying for them. If you are trying to get a job from scratch, go to Georgetown or NYU or don't go at all. Entry level tax hiring strongly favors larger institutional employers. I say this as someone who has been practicing tax for a while (2010 grad).




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