2016 grad - not getting interviews

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elendinel
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby elendinel » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:33 am

AVBucks4239 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here

The reason why in person-meeting is out of question is because I work 1+ hours away from my target market.
I definitely go to every networking event/bar function/etc. that's after work hours but even those are cutting close. I get out of work at or after 7, and get to these events at 8-8:30.

I'm always down for a drinks/coffee on weekends and have been building my network (not just for the legal field but also in general, as well as my social network), but it's definitely much harder to cold network with alumni in-person when they're so far away.


Thanks for the advice. What is a listserv btw?

Doesn't matter man. When I was a 3L I thought about moving all the way out to San Francisco. See here: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=218116

I went there twice (for about five days each time) and got lunch/coffee with more than half a dozen people. I had phone conversations with half a dozen more. Kept in touch all the time. Actually ended up going there in January for new years, got beers with a mid-level at an employment law boutique, and we ended up watching the college football national championship for three hours. This ended with him basically saying he could at least hook me up with some contract work if I couldn't find anything.


I somewhat agree with this. You presumably get PTO; plan a bunch of meetings in the same week and then use your PTO to take the time off to go there and do them.

Does it suck to use vacation time to get a job? Sure, but not having a job will suck more. If you have no prospects right now then there is literally no reason not to try this.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:50 pm

I am in a similar position as you (in a school-funded fellowship). I have similar grades, but I'm from a T25 school. I have been exclusively applying to open positions in my field.

My fellowship is with a fairly prestigious nonprofit in a very big market, and I'm looking to continue to work in public interest. I've been applying pretty much everywhere geographically; there aren't a lot of jobs to even apply for in my field, and there's no shortage of attorneys/3Ls interested in my field. All of my legal experience has been within my desired field (3 legal internships in law school), but this is my first post-JD job.

My interview pace has picked up dramatically since Jan/Feb, & now I'm getting close to an interview every week. I've only been applying to about a dozen places a month. Based on my own experience, I think you may not be tailoring your cover letter enough for each job ad or perhaps your resume needs reworking. I usually spend at least an hour re-crafting my cover letter for each job application. My advice: write your cover letter as though it was for your dream firm/dream job, and then modify that for each application you submit. It will probably help you come across much more enthusiastic, energetic, and passionate.

Your law school's career services contact can really help polish things, too. I regularly email and set up calls with mine to ask for advice on how to phrase/answer things I anticipate will come up in interviews and how to tailor a cover letter for a type of job I haven't submitted an application for in the past.

1styearlateral
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby 1styearlateral » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:30 am

If the consensus in this thread is that OP's resume is garbage, can we get some examples of what the practicing attorneys here think are good resume formats/points? I've seen a lot of templates and examples from CSOs at a good amount of law schools, but most are for 2/3L (I understand OP hasn't really been practicing).

albanach
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby albanach » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:09 am

1styearlateral wrote:If the consensus in this thread is that OP's resume is garbage, can we get some examples of what the practicing attorneys here think are good resume formats/points? I've seen a lot of templates and examples from CSOs at a good amount of law schools, but most are for 2/3L (I understand OP hasn't really been practicing).


As someone currently interviewing folk with 1-3 years experience, I don't care about the format of your resume. Some are nicely structured, others come through HR via an online form and are a mess. Neither gets you a boost - what's important is the content. Take your experience and present it in the best possible way for the position. That means you want to ask someone at the firm you're applying to about the post before sending your resume.

Above all, make your experience look like it will either add value or reduce your training/ramp-up time. And if you're adding an interests section, add stuff that's interesting.

As for cover letters, I rarely see them. All I really care about there is whether the spelling and grammar are correct.

1styearlateral
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby 1styearlateral » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:23 am

albanach wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:If the consensus in this thread is that OP's resume is garbage, can we get some examples of what the practicing attorneys here think are good resume formats/points? I've seen a lot of templates and examples from CSOs at a good amount of law schools, but most are for 2/3L (I understand OP hasn't really been practicing).


As someone currently interviewing folk with 1-3 years experience, I don't care about the format of your resume. Some are nicely structured, others come through HR via an online form and are a mess. Neither gets you a boost - what's important is the content. Take your experience and present it in the best possible way for the position. That means you want to ask someone at the firm you're applying to about the post before sending your resume.

Above all, make your experience look like it will either add value or reduce your training/ramp-up time. And if you're adding an interests section, add stuff that's interesting.

As for cover letters, I rarely see them. All I really care about there is whether the spelling and grammar are correct.

What about someone who has a lot of published work (legal writing) but in a different area of law than the position being applied for? Leave it out since it is not relevant to the job? Leave it in because it shows good writing abilities/experience/diversity/etc.?

What about other positions not on point either, like LS internships with other firms but in different areas of the law? Do they deserve a single line, but no description?

Trying to maximize precious space on ideally one page but finding it difficult with a decent amount under my belt for a second-year.

albanach
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby albanach » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:51 am

1styearlateral wrote:
albanach wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:If the consensus in this thread is that OP's resume is garbage, can we get some examples of what the practicing attorneys here think are good resume formats/points? I've seen a lot of templates and examples from CSOs at a good amount of law schools, but most are for 2/3L (I understand OP hasn't really been practicing).


As someone currently interviewing folk with 1-3 years experience, I don't care about the format of your resume. Some are nicely structured, others come through HR via an online form and are a mess. Neither gets you a boost - what's important is the content. Take your experience and present it in the best possible way for the position. That means you want to ask someone at the firm you're applying to about the post before sending your resume.

Above all, make your experience look like it will either add value or reduce your training/ramp-up time. And if you're adding an interests section, add stuff that's interesting.

As for cover letters, I rarely see them. All I really care about there is whether the spelling and grammar are correct.

What about someone who has a lot of published work (legal writing) but in a different area of law than the position being applied for? Leave it out since it is not relevant to the job? Leave it in because it shows good writing abilities/experience/diversity/etc.?

What about other positions not on point either, like LS internships with other firms but in different areas of the law? Do they deserve a single line, but no description?

Trying to maximize precious space on ideally one page but finding it difficult with a decent amount under my belt for a second-year.


Keep your writing , so long as it's not excessive. Be prepared that I might read it and ask questions.

For other positions, make them relevant. You're going to have to use this stuff as a newish lawyer, because you need all the legal stuff you can get on your resume. But if you did litigation and are applying for a transactional position, emphasize that your litigation was based on contracts. If you did pro-bono unemployment claims in an employment clinic but are applying for a gov job, talk about administrative law, if you did finance and are applying for healthcare, talk about the regulatory oversight.

If you want to stand out among the other candidates, try to make everything on the resume in some way related to the position you are applying for.

1styearlateral
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby 1styearlateral » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:06 pm

albanach wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
albanach wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:If the consensus in this thread is that OP's resume is garbage, can we get some examples of what the practicing attorneys here think are good resume formats/points? I've seen a lot of templates and examples from CSOs at a good amount of law schools, but most are for 2/3L (I understand OP hasn't really been practicing).


As someone currently interviewing folk with 1-3 years experience, I don't care about the format of your resume. Some are nicely structured, others come through HR via an online form and are a mess. Neither gets you a boost - what's important is the content. Take your experience and present it in the best possible way for the position. That means you want to ask someone at the firm you're applying to about the post before sending your resume.

Above all, make your experience look like it will either add value or reduce your training/ramp-up time. And if you're adding an interests section, add stuff that's interesting.

As for cover letters, I rarely see them. All I really care about there is whether the spelling and grammar are correct.

What about someone who has a lot of published work (legal writing) but in a different area of law than the position being applied for? Leave it out since it is not relevant to the job? Leave it in because it shows good writing abilities/experience/diversity/etc.?

What about other positions not on point either, like LS internships with other firms but in different areas of the law? Do they deserve a single line, but no description?

Trying to maximize precious space on ideally one page but finding it difficult with a decent amount under my belt for a second-year.


Keep your writing , so long as it's not excessive. Be prepared that I might read it and ask questions.

For other positions, make them relevant. You're going to have to use this stuff as a newish lawyer, because you need all the legal stuff you can get on your resume. But if you did litigation and are applying for a transactional position, emphasize that your litigation was based on contracts. If you did pro-bono unemployment claims in an employment clinic but are applying for a gov job, talk about administrative law, if you did finance and are applying for healthcare, talk about the regulatory oversight.

If you want to stand out among the other candidates, try to make everything on the resume in some way related to the position you are applying for.

Thanks, this is very helpful. One last question: What's your take on 1 vs. 2 pages? Lots of debate on this, and I must say I am a huge fan of 1-page simplicity, but to some extent it's pretty difficult even has a young attorney.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:06 pm

OP here

For networking, I went to school out of state and have found that there aren't that many alumni in the practice group/firm that I'm interested in.

What's the consensus on cold emailing non-alumni and just asking for coffee/chat? Is alumni status necessary?

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AVBucks4239
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby AVBucks4239 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here

For networking, I went to school out of state and have found that there aren't that many alumni in the practice group/firm that I'm interested in.

What's the consensus on cold emailing non-alumni and just asking for coffee/chat? Is alumni status necessary?

I'd say you're being kind of ridiculous for trying to narrow it down to a single practice group and a single firm (or single type of firm). You need to get a job broadly in litigation or transactional (whichever you prefer) and go from there.

To answer your question, I'd say cold-emailing can be a bit awkward. Usually it's better with some sort of soft introduction.

RaceJudicata
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby RaceJudicata » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:13 pm

1styearlateral wrote:
albanach wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
albanach wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:Thanks, this is very helpful. One last question: What's your take on 1 vs. 2 pages? Lots of debate on this, and I must say I am a huge fan of 1-page simplicity, but to some extent it's pretty difficult even has a young attorney.


I dont think this is a debate at all. One page for sure.

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mjb447
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby mjb447 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:20 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
albanach wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
albanach wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:Thanks, this is very helpful. One last question: What's your take on 1 vs. 2 pages? Lots of debate on this, and I must say I am a huge fan of 1-page simplicity, but to some extent it's pretty difficult even has a young attorney.


I dont think this is a debate at all. One page for sure.

+1. Two isn't a huge problem if you've been in practice a while, but you shouldn't be having that much trouble narrowing it down to one at this point in your career.

1styearlateral
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby 1styearlateral » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:57 pm

Ok thanks RJ + mjb.

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elendinel
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby elendinel » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:15 pm

Re: page numbers, at least as far as I have been concerned, I don't care about how long the resume is so long as each part of it is there to paint the picture of why you should be hired.

I will say, though, that barring extensive relevant work experience, you should be able to fit everything on one page. If you're fresh out of LS with two SAs, and you're having trouble fitting it all on one page, revisit the way you are formatting your resume/describing what you did. Also consider your audience and pare down your discussion of each summer accordingly. It is extremely rare that a person looking for their first legal job truly needs more than one page.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:15 am

Former t-14 funded fellowship recipient here. It took me about 7 months to find anything. I think you have to accept that these school funded fellowships are not fully accepted as "real" employment, you can't get the same job after one year of work with organization X as you would after a fellowship with X. However, some employers view it more seriously than others. I was able to get a non AIII clerkship, which was much better than my options were after law school ended. But I don't think firms really value it, especially those who know how it works, it's basically unemployment insurance for law students.

Also, your job during the fellowship is to get a job, if you can't go get coffee or lunch or take off for a networking lunch, something is wrong with your organization's expectations, or your approach.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:16 am

How much are school-funded positions looked down on in the public interest realm?

If I want to do child advocacy (think Legal Aid, ACS, not impact lit), I should take school funding to do child advocacy work, right? My other option would be a non-school funded job, but it has nothing to do with family law.

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rpupkin
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby rpupkin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:How much are school-funded positions looked down on in the public interest realm?

If I want to do child advocacy (think Legal Aid, ACS, not impact lit), I should take school funding to do child advocacy work, right? My other option would be a non-school funded job, but it has nothing to do with family law.

PI is not like big law. I don't think school-funded positions are looked down upon by public interest employers at all. Indeed, public interest organizations greatly benefit from that sort of school funding.

Anyway, yes, you should definitely take school funding for a job that's in the area in which you want to work long-term.




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