2016 grad - not getting interviews

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Anonymous User
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2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:27 pm

I'm a 2016 T6 grad, median.

I'm currently at a school funded fellowship at a Gov. agency. Even though it's gov. work, it's pretty heavy transactional/finance/securities based. It's not biglaw or law firm work but I feel like it's pretty relevant to what I want to do.

I've been here for 7 months now. I've been applying to different job postings, mostly ones looking for 0-2 years experience, anywhere from in-house to biglaw. I have not yet received one interview.

I'm not mass-mailing or sending out apps as crazily as I used to (definitely not in the 100+/month range) but the jobs I'm applying to are OPEN positions that are ENTRY level or 1 year experience. I'm kind of baffled that my stats and my work experience (even if not the greatest) aren't getting my foot in the door for these jobs.

Is it too early for me? Or is it just this hard to get an interview? I feel like I had an easier time after striking out 2L OCI...

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rpupkin
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby rpupkin » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm not mass-mailing or sending out apps as crazily as I used to (definitely not in the 100+/month range) but the jobs I'm applying to are OPEN positions that are ENTRY level or 1 year experience. I'm kind of baffled that my stats and my work experience (even if not the greatest) aren't getting my foot in the door for these jobs.

I'm not surprised. It's nice that your school is funding your fellowship at the government agency, but--from a big law hiring perspective--you don't look that different from someone who is unemployed. If you want big law, you should be mass mailing like crazy.

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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a 2016 T6 grad, median.

I'm currently at a school funded fellowship at a Gov. agency. Even though it's gov. work, it's pretty heavy transactional/finance/securities based. It's not biglaw or law firm work but I feel like it's pretty relevant to what I want to do.

I've been here for 7 months now. I've been applying to different job postings, mostly ones looking for 0-2 years experience, anywhere from in-house to biglaw. I have not yet received one interview.

I'm not mass-mailing or sending out apps as crazily as I used to (definitely not in the 100+/month range) but the jobs I'm applying to are OPEN positions that are ENTRY level or 1 year experience. I'm kind of baffled that my stats and my work experience (even if not the greatest) aren't getting my foot in the door for these jobs.

Is it too early for me? Or is it just this hard to get an interview? I feel like I had an easier time after striking out 2L OCI...


It probably is you... That is, the way you're presenting yourself (via resume and cover letter, or even interview). I know people with worse stats who have gotten jobs faster after graduation. Have you had career services critique your resume+cover letter and do a mock interview for you?

Also, have you been networking on the side?

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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:13 am

Is your fellowship your only work experience?

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zhenders
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby zhenders » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a 2016 T6 grad, median.

I'm currently at a school funded fellowship at a Gov. agency. Even though it's gov. work, it's pretty heavy transactional/finance/securities based. It's not biglaw or law firm work but I feel like it's pretty relevant to what I want to do.

I've been here for 7 months now. I've been applying to different job postings, mostly ones looking for 0-2 years experience, anywhere from in-house to biglaw. I have not yet received one interview.

I'm not mass-mailing or sending out apps as crazily as I used to (definitely not in the 100+/month range) but the jobs I'm applying to are OPEN positions that are ENTRY level or 1 year experience. I'm kind of baffled that my stats and my work experience (even if not the greatest) aren't getting my foot in the door for these jobs.

Is it too early for me? Or is it just this hard to get an interview? I feel like I had an easier time after striking out 2L OCI...


It probably is you... That is, the way you're presenting yourself (via resume and cover letter, or even interview). I know people with worse stats who have gotten jobs faster after graduation. Have you had career services critique your resume+cover letter and do a mock interview for you?

Also, have you been networking on the side?


+1

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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:53 am

I'll chime in and say that I agree. I think you have good enough stats for employment. Your issue must be your resume/cover letter.

gaddockteeg
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby gaddockteeg » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'll chime in and say that I agree. I think you have good enough stats for employment. Your issue must be your resume/cover letter.

this was me.

RaceJudicata
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby RaceJudicata » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:00 pm

Applying only to open positions might be a part of the problem as well. Those positions get flooded with applications. ... many from folks w/ big law experience already.

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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:13 pm

OP here

I am open to critiques. Thanks for the feedback.

I haven't asked career services to look over my materials. I generally had decent mailing/application responses in the past during my 2L/3L year so I figured it wasn't really necessary (especially since all I've changed was more work experience, bar admission, and better/more substantive experience to talk about in my cover letter). But I guess it's hard to critique myself so I'll follow up with career services.

I've been networking but not as much as I did as a law student. The fellowship is a full-time gig so getting coffee with alumni is out of question. I've set up a few informational phone interviews but nothing has panned. I'm networking through other means, such as joining bar associations, etc. but it's way too early to see the benefit of it right now since that type of networking is more a long-term plan. I've definitely met people who I know can be helpful, but later down the road.

The fellowship is pretty much my only work experience in the legal field. My 1L summer I worked in gov., and 2L summer I worked at a decent non-biglaw gig (in-house/bank/etc.).

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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:15 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:Applying only to open positions might be a part of the problem as well. Those positions get flooded with applications. ... many from folks w/ big law experience already.


OP here

I figured this might be an issue as well. So would mass mailing + networking be the way to go? As a 2L/3L, most of my responses came from open positions on simplicity so I initially thought applying to open positions would be the way to go.

I guess the issue I have is I went to law school in city X, but now live in city Y. They are both large cities. However, all my school's simplicity postings are for city X, so I am applying to open positions through other means (indeed, monster, etc.)
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:23 pm

Not to be a downer, but I gotta echo the other folks and say it might be you. I was in a pretty similar situation back in 2014 (fellowship looking for biglaw), and I got more interviews with similar stats and a worse economy. I think you gotta present yourself better, man.

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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not to be a downer, but I gotta echo the other folks and say it might be you. I was in a pretty similar situation back in 2014 (fellowship looking for biglaw), and I got more interviews with similar stats and a worse economy. I think you gotta present yourself better, man.


OP here.
Definitely not a downer. I'd rather have it be something I can change. Thanks.

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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:32 pm

OP, just to commiserate.

I'm a T6 as well. JUST got hired for a full-time gig. I have a bunch of friends who are in the exact boat you are in: School sponsored fellowship (some with other fellowships) with trouble lining something up for post-fellowship.

It could be your cover letter but it could also be that the market is this bad. People assume T6 have jobs and jobs lined up. Unfortunately, it's really not so simple. Just keep plugging away.

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mjb447
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby mjb447 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP, just to commiserate.

I'm a T6 as well. JUST got hired for a full-time gig. I have a bunch of friends who are in the exact boat you are in: School sponsored fellowship (some with other fellowships) with trouble lining something up for post-fellowship.

It could be your cover letter but it could also be that the market is this bad. People assume T6 have jobs and jobs lined up. Unfortunately, it's really not so simple. Just keep plugging away.

Yeah, I suspect it's a little of both, particularly for post-fellowship positions (I think pupkin is right that these can read pretty close to 'unemployed').

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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP, just to commiserate.

I'm a T6 as well. JUST got hired for a full-time gig. I have a bunch of friends who are in the exact boat you are in: School sponsored fellowship (some with other fellowships) with trouble lining something up for post-fellowship.

It could be your cover letter but it could also be that the market is this bad. People assume T6 have jobs and jobs lined up. Unfortunately, it's really not so simple. Just keep plugging away.


Yeah don't feel bad. I'm from a T14 as well (lower than T6) and I knew some folks who got jobs 1+ years after graduation. It doesn't always take that long, but just so you know the door isn't closed at this point.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby AVBucks4239 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:53 pm

1. Work with your CSO to make sure your resume, cover letter, etc. are good. My CSO has helped me with a ton of things well after I graduated.

2. Also ask your CSO to make sure you are still on Symplicity and all their job boards.

3. Think long and hard about what type of job you want.

4. If you're looking for big law, then yes, start mass mailing as soon as you possibly can. Also scroll big firm's websites for open jobs. I sometimes look at these out of sheer boredom, but you'd be surprised how many open jobs there are at each firm.

5. If you don't care about big law, start networking immediately in your target market. Reach out to people you know both personally and professionally. Get coffee 3-5 times a week. Go to bar functions. Join a listserv.

I've told this story before, but I basically got my current job by being social with an old high school friend, saying yes to playing racquetball with him at 7AM on a Saturday morning, and in doing so, met a partner at my current firm. That led to a lunch which led to an interview which led to an internship which led to me being an associate here.

Basically, start putting yourself out there more. This includes online and in-person, and I'd say the in-person is way more important.

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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby AVBucks4239 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here
***
The fellowship is a full-time gig so getting coffee with alumni is out of question.
***

This is a steaming pile of shit. Stop telling yourself that. I work full-time (probably 45-55 hours a week) and I still get coffee/lunches with fellow alumni, colleagues, and potential clients all the time. I actually use my personal Google calendar (as opposed to work email) for all networking stuff. Last two weeks is indicative of normal:

3/7: Coffee w/ attorney in town (met through bar association) at 2:30 to discuss OVI case I just got
3/8: Hearing at 11:00; got lunch with opposing counsel afterwards (I always try to turn these hearings into lunch)
3/9: Beers after work with an Ohio State alum
3/10: Lunch with friend from high school starting his own business
3/15: Coffee with friend from high school who is slowly building a real estate empire, trying to get him as a client
3/15: Federal bar association event after work
3/16: Grievance Committee meeting before work
3/17: scheduled for beers with two criminal law attorneys, one who graduated from Ohio State who I reached out to very early in my career

Make it a point to get yourself out there and you will start hearing things. I'd bet a ton of money that, so long as you're socially normal and appear professional, you'll get offers to do contract work within three months.

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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:11 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here
***
The fellowship is a full-time gig so getting coffee with alumni is out of question.
***

This is a steaming pile of shit. Stop telling yourself that. I work full-time (probably 45-55 hours a week) and I still get coffee/lunches with fellow alumni, colleagues, and potential clients all the time. I actually use my personal Google calendar (as opposed to work email) for all networking stuff. Last two weeks is indicative of normal:

3/7: Coffee w/ attorney in town (met through bar association) at 2:30 to discuss OVI case I just got
3/8: Hearing at 11:00; got lunch with opposing counsel afterwards (I always try to turn these hearings into lunch)
3/9: Beers after work with an Ohio State alum
3/10: Lunch with friend from high school starting his own business
3/15: Coffee with friend from high school who is slowly building a real estate empire, trying to get him as a client
3/15: Federal bar association event after work
3/16: Grievance Committee meeting before work
3/17: scheduled for beers with two criminal law attorneys, one who graduated from Ohio State who I reached out to very early in my career

Make it a point to get yourself out there and you will start hearing things. I'd bet a ton of money that, so long as you're socially normal and appear professional, you'll get offers to do contract work within three months.


This. Even in my lateral search, I made time to do things like those listed above. You can make time (and excuses to sneak out) to do those things.

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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:21 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here
***
The fellowship is a full-time gig so getting coffee with alumni is out of question.
***

This is a steaming pile of shit. Stop telling yourself that. I work full-time (probably 45-55 hours a week) and I still get coffee/lunches with fellow alumni, colleagues, and potential clients all the time. I actually use my personal Google calendar (as opposed to work email) for all networking stuff. Last two weeks is indicative of normal:

3/7: Coffee w/ attorney in town (met through bar association) at 2:30 to discuss OVI case I just got
3/8: Hearing at 11:00; got lunch with opposing counsel afterwards (I always try to turn these hearings into lunch)
3/9: Beers after work with an Ohio State alum
3/10: Lunch with friend from high school starting his own business
3/15: Coffee with friend from high school who is slowly building a real estate empire, trying to get him as a client
3/15: Federal bar association event after work
3/16: Grievance Committee meeting before work
3/17: scheduled for beers with two criminal law attorneys, one who graduated from Ohio State who I reached out to very early in my career

Make it a point to get yourself out there and you will start hearing things. I'd bet a ton of money that, so long as you're socially normal and appear professional, you'll get offers to do contract work within three months.


OP here

The reason why in person-meeting is out of question is because I work 1+ hours away from my target market.
I definitely go to every networking event/bar function/etc. that's after work hours but even those are cutting close. I get out of work at or after 7, and get to these events at 8-8:30.

I'm always down for a drinks/coffee on weekends and have been building my network (not just for the legal field but also in general, as well as my social network), but it's definitely much harder to cold network with alumni in-person when they're so far away.


Thanks for the advice. What is a listserv btw?

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AVBucks4239
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby AVBucks4239 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here

The reason why in person-meeting is out of question is because I work 1+ hours away from my target market.
I definitely go to every networking event/bar function/etc. that's after work hours but even those are cutting close. I get out of work at or after 7, and get to these events at 8-8:30.

I'm always down for a drinks/coffee on weekends and have been building my network (not just for the legal field but also in general, as well as my social network), but it's definitely much harder to cold network with alumni in-person when they're so far away.


Thanks for the advice. What is a listserv btw?

Doesn't matter man. When I was a 3L I thought about moving all the way out to San Francisco. See here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=218116

I went there twice (for about five days each time) and got lunch/coffee with more than half a dozen people. I had phone conversations with half a dozen more. Kept in touch all the time. Actually ended up going there in January for new years, got beers with a mid-level at an employment law boutique, and we ended up watching the college football national championship for three hours. This ended with him basically saying he could at least hook me up with some contract work if I couldn't find anything.

I didn't move to SF because I met my now-fiancee over Christmas break, who is from where I grew up, and so I decided to network closer to home.

Yes, I was a law student and had more time, but even though my target market was 3,000 miles away, I constantly worked at it because it was my top priority.

It is also your top priority. Start going for it.

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nealric
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby nealric » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
AVBucks4239 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here
***
The fellowship is a full-time gig so getting coffee with alumni is out of question.
***

This is a steaming pile of shit. Stop telling yourself that. I work full-time (probably 45-55 hours a week) and I still get coffee/lunches with fellow alumni, colleagues, and potential clients all the time. I actually use my personal Google calendar (as opposed to work email) for all networking stuff. Last two weeks is indicative of normal:

3/7: Coffee w/ attorney in town (met through bar association) at 2:30 to discuss OVI case I just got
3/8: Hearing at 11:00; got lunch with opposing counsel afterwards (I always try to turn these hearings into lunch)
3/9: Beers after work with an Ohio State alum
3/10: Lunch with friend from high school starting his own business
3/15: Coffee with friend from high school who is slowly building a real estate empire, trying to get him as a client
3/15: Federal bar association event after work
3/16: Grievance Committee meeting before work
3/17: scheduled for beers with two criminal law attorneys, one who graduated from Ohio State who I reached out to very early in my career

Make it a point to get yourself out there and you will start hearing things. I'd bet a ton of money that, so long as you're socially normal and appear professional, you'll get offers to do contract work within three months.


OP here

The reason why in person-meeting is out of question is because I work 1+ hours away from my target market.
I definitely go to every networking event/bar function/etc. that's after work hours but even those are cutting close. I get out of work at or after 7, and get to these events at 8-8:30.

I'm always down for a drinks/coffee on weekends and have been building my network (not just for the legal field but also in general, as well as my social network), but it's definitely much harder to cold network with alumni in-person when they're so far away.


Thanks for the advice. What is a listserv btw?


It's school funded make-work. You can play hookie every now and then.

thegrayman
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby thegrayman » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:03 pm

Random Q but do you have an ethnic name? Reason I ask is that my wife has an extremely ethnic name and was getting shut out of interviews. I suggested she adopt an "american" name to put on resumes. It hadn't even occurred to her that this might be holding her back job-wise. She picked a common name that went with her actual name and used that, got a fulltime gig shortly afterwards.

Just a thought, best of luck out there.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:07 pm

thegrayman wrote:Random Q but do you have an ethnic name? Reason I ask is that my wife has an extremely ethnic name and was getting shut out of interviews. I suggested she adopt an "american" name to put on resumes. It hadn't even occurred to her that this might be holding her back job-wise. She picked a common name that went with her actual name and used that, got a fulltime gig shortly afterwards.

Just a thought, best of luck out there.


I used to put my ethnic first name on my resume. Now I put my middle (American) name on it. My job search the 2nd time around has gone way better, even though I'm switching sub-fields.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Hi there-
I'm in the same boat.
Except I'm doing my fellowship at the U.S district court which limits my networking opportunities as I cannot have many interactions with firms/lawyers that have pending case with my judge. I kind of gave up with finding a post grad job until my term here (1 year) ends. I am hoping my experience will boost my resume, but not sure.

But, despite all my applications (3-4 submission a wk), I am not getting any interviews.
Not sure what the problem is. Perhaps I should looking into small firms.....but even then, no luck.
so sad.. :?

pml87
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Re: 2016 grad - not getting interviews

Postby pml87 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:37 pm

Very sorry to hear about your plight, and others' who are in similar circumstances. For what it's worth, I am in a post-clerkship job search myself, albeit with more interviews. I used to do more networking but I find that polishing on resume, adding substantive experience, and focusing on a niche in the market works better than going all-out for a general big law gig. Hence, I would echo all the other comments about looking at your application including cover letter and resume. Also I would recommend expanding your horizon regarding the number of firms to which you are applying. At the end of the day, it's all about selling yourself -- first through your resume, then through your interview. Just because you have nice credential does not mean you can take a break selling yourself.




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