Paying jobs for 1L?

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Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:04 pm

I guess I made the mistake of only applying to 1L firm jobs. It's now seeming more likely that I will not receive one. Is there any direction anyone can provide in where I can find a 1L paid job?

I come from a low-SES family, also a URM. I graduated from a top undergrad, currently attending a T14 law school. After graduating from college, I worked for a couple years so that I could have enough money to pay off my loans from undergrad, as well as save up for expenses for the first two years of law school. I worked up until the beginning of school. While I was working, there were some family emergencies, as well as friends who set up GoFundMe accounts for different purposes. Even though I knew I needed the money for law school, I still contributed. But now, I am sitting here and I will probably not be able to pay rent for the last two months of my lease (and forget signing a lease for the next year). Now when I need it the most, I feel as if no one is here for me (most of my family cannot help me, but there is one person that could contribute). Anyway, I thought I had enough money for the first two years, but turns out buying furniture and moving is really expensive (I know - dumb, but I never had to do all of this until law school). I also had a medical emergency last term that I had to pay out of pocket for. I am really regretting making these contributions, and I wish I had worked for an extra year.

I'm already a frugal person, just by nature, but it's gotten to the point where I am trying to save as much money I can by not putting on the heat, etc. Before anyone tries to discredit my experience or say anything negative, I have (and will have) expenses that will not be covered by loans.

So I decided to apply to 1L jobs. I've been to quite a few callbacks, the majority of which I received after sending in my transcript. However, I have not received any offers. It's strange because I have diversity in my work experience (firms and a government agency) and diversity in my academic majors, plus ties to the market where I have mainly interviewed (I was born there, grew up there, attended public schools in the area, only left for college, and returned after college). I have no idea what is wrong. And I'm not saying this to brag, but just to express my confusion: there aren't many people who were born and raised in my market, as well as people who have had the diversity in legal work experience as well as academic background as well. Many of my interviewers have said I had a great resume.

I am really trying to stay positive, but all of these rejections are messing with my confidence. I had a callback a few days ago, and right before, I received a rejection. I didn't perform as well as I should have. Last night, I had a nightmare that my family's house burned down. Needless to say, this worry is messing with my head. Also, I spent so much time on this job thing that I have not started any preparation for my exams.

Now, I'm assuming 1L firm jobs are out of the picture. Where else can I make money? Should I mass mail smaller firms? Should I get in contact with alumni who work in-house at corporations? I would really appreciate any help.

And would it really be horrible not to have a legal job this summer? Like if I worked as a temp office assistant somewhere, would it hurt me during OCI? I could maybe volunteer at a legal non-profit on the side.

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waldorf

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby waldorf » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:08 pm

Edited because I think I may have given bad advice. Disregard.
Last edited by waldorf on Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TripTrip

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby TripTrip » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:10 pm

Does your school not have summer public interest funding? For low SES students, that often ends up being worth exactly the same amount as a paying gig due to the proportional drop in aid.

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TripTrip

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby TripTrip » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:11 pm

bwaldorf wrote:0L so can't comment on what you could do this summer.

Suggestion: could you drive for Uber? If you don't have a car, then nevermind, but if you do, many of my friends in law school drive for Uber in their spare time. Even 10-15 hours a week is doable and you can make some extra cash during the school year. Some of them also airbnb their apartments when they go home for a weekend. One of my friends actually stays with a friend or family member one weekend a month (that is in a quick driving distance) so that she can pocket $300 by airbnb'ing her apartment for the weekend. Every bit here and there helps. I know these suggestions might not be optimal or doable for you but they are just things I know of people doing for extra cash.

Don't do this if you want to work in law after you graduate.

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waldorf

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby waldorf » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:12 pm

.
Last edited by waldorf on Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mullens

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby Mullens » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I guess I made the mistake of only applying to 1L firm jobs. It's now seeming more likely that I will not receive one. Is there any direction anyone can provide in where I can find a 1L paid job?

I come from a low-SES family, also a URM. I graduated from a top undergrad, currently attending a T14 law school. After graduating from college, I worked for a couple years so that I could have enough money to pay off my loans from undergrad, as well as save up for expenses for the first two years of law school. I worked up until the beginning of school. While I was working, there were some family emergencies, as well as friends who set up GoFundMe accounts for different purposes. Even though I knew I needed the money for law school, I still contributed. But now, I am sitting here and I will probably not be able to pay rent for the last two months of my lease (and forget signing a lease for the next year). Now when I need it the most, I feel as if no one is here for me (most of my family cannot help me, but there is one person that could contribute). Anyway, I thought I had enough money for the first two years, but turns out buying furniture and moving is really expensive (I know - dumb, but I never had to do all of this until law school). I also had a medical emergency last term that I had to pay out of pocket for. I am really regretting making these contributions, and I wish I had worked for an extra year.

I'm already a frugal person, just by nature, but it's gotten to the point where I am trying to save as much money I can by not putting on the heat, etc. Before anyone tries to discredit my experience or say anything negative, I have (and will have) expenses that will not be covered by loans.

So I decided to apply to 1L jobs. I've been to quite a few callbacks, the majority of which I received after sending in my transcript. However, I have not received any offers. It's strange because I have diversity in my work experience (firms and a government agency) and diversity in my academic majors, plus ties to the market where I have mainly interviewed (I was born there, grew up there, attended public schools in the area, only left for college, and returned after college). I have no idea what is wrong. And I'm not saying this to brag, but just to express my confusion: there aren't many people who were born and raised in my market, as well as people who have had the diversity in legal work experience as well as academic background as well. Many of my interviewers have said I had a great resume.

I am really trying to stay positive, but all of these rejections are messing with my confidence. I had a callback a few days ago, and right before, I received a rejection. I didn't perform as well as I should have. Last night, I had a nightmare that my family's house burned down. Needless to say, this worry is messing with my head. Also, I spent so much time on this job thing that I have not started any preparation for my exams.

Now, I'm assuming 1L firm jobs are out of the picture. Where else can I make money? Should I mass mail smaller firms? Should I get in contact with alumni who work in-house at corporations? I would really appreciate any help.

And would it really be horrible not to have a legal job this summer? Like if I worked as a temp office assistant somewhere, would it hurt me during OCI? I could maybe volunteer at a legal non-profit on the side.


You absolutely need some sort of legal or quasi-legal job this summer for OCI. You do something during the day and then wait tables or bartend at night if you absolutely have to, but you need to do a legal job during the day. Does your school offer funding to work at a public interest organization during 1L? That might work out.

I also suggest you do some mock interviews with career services to make sure you are the best interviewer you can be. Don't be too distressed that you're not getting 1L firm offers because they're hard to get, but it's still worth it to work on your interviewing because it sounds like that might be holding you back a little.

It's also not the end of the world when it comes to finding paid work. I worked in-house and made money my 1L summer (about $8k total) so not nearly as much as at a firm but it helped. I found that job in late March.

As far as the other money troubles, can you take out loans as a 2L? Or for your first summer so you can pay rent?

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mjb447

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby mjb447 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:26 pm

bwaldorf wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
bwaldorf wrote:0L so can't comment on what you could do this summer.

Suggestion: could you drive for Uber? If you don't have a car, then nevermind, but if you do, many of my friends in law school drive for Uber in their spare time. Even 10-15 hours a week is doable and you can make some extra cash during the school year. Some of them also airbnb their apartments when they go home for a weekend. One of my friends actually stays with a friend or family member one weekend a month (that is in a quick driving distance) so that she can pocket $300 by airbnb'ing her apartment for the weekend. Every bit here and there helps. I know these suggestions might not be optimal or doable for you but they are just things I know of people doing for extra cash.

Don't do this if you want to work in law after you graduate.


Really? Hm. I'll delete if it's genuinely bad advice. It's just stuff I've heard of friends doing. Disregard me, then, OP!

Was coming on to say basically what Mullens said but in response to your advice (which was to make some cash as an Uber driver or via airbnb; Mullens gave similar examples of working tables and bartending). I actually don't think your advice was bad so long as Uber and airbnb are side hustles and don't get in the way of doing things during normal working hours. At that time, OP needs to be doing legal work.

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waldorf

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby waldorf » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:34 pm

.
Last edited by waldorf on Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:38 pm

OP here - I don't think that advice is bad either. Unfortunately, I don't have a car and I also don't have a driver's license :| I've worked since I was in high school, I just decided that because 1L is so important, it was probably a bad idea (which is why I decided not to get a job).

Also, my school does give out PI funding. It's not that much to begin with, and it would also be pro-rated if I work part-time (plus taxes). I would make more if I didn't accept the funding, and did some other type of temp job.

If it will hurt me during OCI, I guess I will have to find some sort of legal unpaid job and have a second job as someone else suggested. Which I'm fine with. I don't think I can accept the PI funding as well as have a second job - but I'll look into it.

As for loans, they don't disburse until the school year begins I believe. The loans would cover my new lease, but it would not cover my other expenses.

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby ausimpv » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I guess I made the mistake of only applying to 1L firm jobs. It's now seeming more likely that I will not receive one. Is there any direction anyone can provide in where I can find a 1L paid job?

I come from a low-SES family, also a URM. I graduated from a top undergrad, currently attending a T14 law school. After graduating from college, I worked for a couple years so that I could have enough money to pay off my loans from undergrad, as well as save up for expenses for the first two years of law school. I worked up until the beginning of school. While I was working, there were some family emergencies, as well as friends who set up GoFundMe accounts for different purposes. Even though I knew I needed the money for law school, I still contributed. But now, I am sitting here and I will probably not be able to pay rent for the last two months of my lease (and forget signing a lease for the next year). Now when I need it the most, I feel as if no one is here for me (most of my family cannot help me, but there is one person that could contribute). Anyway, I thought I had enough money for the first two years, but turns out buying furniture and moving is really expensive (I know - dumb, but I never had to do all of this until law school). I also had a medical emergency last term that I had to pay out of pocket for. I am really regretting making these contributions, and I wish I had worked for an extra year.

I'm already a frugal person, just by nature, but it's gotten to the point where I am trying to save as much money I can by not putting on the heat, etc. Before anyone tries to discredit my experience or say anything negative, I have (and will have) expenses that will not be covered by loans.

So I decided to apply to 1L jobs. I've been to quite a few callbacks, the majority of which I received after sending in my transcript. However, I have not received any offers. It's strange because I have diversity in my work experience (firms and a government agency) and diversity in my academic majors, plus ties to the market where I have mainly interviewed (I was born there, grew up there, attended public schools in the area, only left for college, and returned after college). I have no idea what is wrong. And I'm not saying this to brag, but just to express my confusion: there aren't many people who were born and raised in my market, as well as people who have had the diversity in legal work experience as well as academic background as well. Many of my interviewers have said I had a great resume.

I am really trying to stay positive, but all of these rejections are messing with my confidence. I had a callback a few days ago, and right before, I received a rejection. I didn't perform as well as I should have. Last night, I had a nightmare that my family's house burned down. Needless to say, this worry is messing with my head. Also, I spent so much time on this job thing that I have not started any preparation for my exams.

Now, I'm assuming 1L firm jobs are out of the picture. Where else can I make money? Should I mass mail smaller firms? Should I get in contact with alumni who work in-house at corporations? I would really appreciate any help.

And would it really be horrible not to have a legal job this summer? Like if I worked as a temp office assistant somewhere, would it hurt me during OCI? I could maybe volunteer at a legal non-profit on the side.


1L firm jobs are less about grades and are more about how you fit with the firm and if the hiring committee liked you the most. Everyone they ask for a callback has assumingly the grades and experience at the onset, otherwise they wouldn't waste time giving you a callback. Bare in mind that many many people apply to these jobs, including those from Ivy Leagues and local schools. And sometimes someone knows a partner on the inside who can speak for them. What really matters is your second summer. Secondly, there are plenty of smaller law firms that need clerks and will pay, but people aren't applying to those cause they're all aiming for big law. These type of firms will probably not advertise. You need to seek them out, use martindale to locate them in your area. I would also suggest explaining your situation to any unpaid jobs you do find and seeing if they will let you work part time instead so you can supplement your income elsewhere. Lastly, rejections don't always mean you're a bad candidate. Everyone gets rejected from places.
Last edited by ausimpv on Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Easterbork

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby Easterbork » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:48 pm

Look into enrolling in summer classes. You get additional loan money, and you can prob work your schedule around whatever work you're doing, but of course this will limit your 1L summer opportunities to where ever your LS is.

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:50 pm

bwaldorf wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
bwaldorf wrote:0L so can't comment on what you could do this summer.

Suggestion: could you drive for Uber? If you don't have a car, then nevermind, but if you do, many of my friends in law school drive for Uber in their spare time. Even 10-15 hours a week is doable and you can make some extra cash during the school year. Some of them also airbnb their apartments when they go home for a weekend. One of my friends actually stays with a friend or family member one weekend a month (that is in a quick driving distance) so that she can pocket $300 by airbnb'ing her apartment for the weekend. Every bit here and there helps. I know these suggestions might not be optimal or doable for you but they are just things I know of people doing for extra cash.

Don't do this if you want to work in law after you graduate.


Really? Hm. I'll delete if it's genuinely bad advice. It's just stuff I've heard of friends doing. Disregard me, then, OP!


0l's really shouldn't be commenting in this section, especially in this thread

edit: accidental anon

RaceJudicata

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby RaceJudicata » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Easterbork wrote:Look into enrolling in summer classes. You get additional loan money, and you can prob work your schedule around whatever work you're doing, but of course this will limit your 1L summer opportunities to where ever your LS is.


This is good advice. Also, at my school at least, when you do an externship and receive credit, you have to pay for that credit and can take out loans for the summer. Granted, it sucks to take out additional loans, but it is what it is. (This is one of the reasons "anticipated" loan amounts generally are much lower than actual loan amounts once law school is wrapped up.)

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby TripTrip » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Also, my school does give out PI funding. It's not that much to begin with, and it would also be pro-rated if I work part-time (plus taxes). I would make more if I didn't accept the funding, and did some other type of temp job.

Are you receiving need-based financial aid? If so, PIF often ends up totaling the same amount as 1L firm job minus aid reduction. It doesn't really help you at all, but it might make you feel better about your situation.

Example: I received $5k PIF my 1L summer then made $30k at a firm my second summer and took a $5k tax hit. After my second summer the law school reduced my need-based financial aid by $20k because I worked during the summer and I ended up in the exact same position I was in when I took the public interest funding.

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UVA2B

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby UVA2B » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:27 pm

You should also look into RA jobs with a prof. Pays a small amount, and no additional rent paid.

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LaLiLuLeLo

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:02 pm

Small firms. They hire law clerks, albeit late in the year, and usually pay $10-20 an hour.

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:48 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:
Easterbork wrote:Look into enrolling in summer classes. You get additional loan money, and you can prob work your schedule around whatever work you're doing, but of course this will limit your 1L summer opportunities to where ever your LS is.


This is good advice. Also, at my school at least, when you do an externship and receive credit, you have to pay for that credit and can take out loans for the summer. Granted, it sucks to take out additional loans, but it is what it is. (This is one of the reasons "anticipated" loan amounts generally are much lower than actual loan amounts once law school is wrapped up.)

Yeah, this is what I was going to suggest - at my school almost no one got paying 1L gigs unless they were RAs (which was like $12/hr) and there wasn't much PI funding, so a lot of people did a free gig like interning for a judge for externship credit, which meant they could take out loans for the summer to live on. I get that you probably don't want more debt but at this point I think the $ you need for the summer isn't going to make a real difference to the total, and will give you the chance to have a decent summer.

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby buckiguy_sucks » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:05 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
Easterbork wrote:Look into enrolling in summer classes. You get additional loan money, and you can prob work your schedule around whatever work you're doing, but of course this will limit your 1L summer opportunities to where ever your LS is.


This is good advice. Also, at my school at least, when you do an externship and receive credit, you have to pay for that credit and can take out loans for the summer. Granted, it sucks to take out additional loans, but it is what it is. (This is one of the reasons "anticipated" loan amounts generally are much lower than actual loan amounts once law school is wrapped up.)

Yeah, this is what I was going to suggest - at my school almost no one got paying 1L gigs unless they were RAs (which was like $12/hr) and there wasn't much PI funding, so a lot of people did a free gig like interning for a judge for externship credit, which meant they could take out loans for the summer to live on. I get that you probably don't want more debt but at this point I think the $ you need for the summer isn't going to make a real difference to the total, and will give you the chance to have a decent summer.



Bonus if this strategy is fewer credits during the school year as well. And externship seminars are negligible extra work so it won't make your summer suck. Could even combo this with a part time gig and have no problems re reduced funding.

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby zot1 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:05 am

UVA2B wrote:You should also look into RA jobs with a prof. Pays a small amount, and no additional rent paid.


This was going to be my suggestion. RA money is nice and the relationship can be a plus too. Sometimes school clinics hire rising 2Ls, but that's less common.

I would ask relatives for help or use up a credit card if any. Also, if living on campus, sometimes the office might let you pay late.

I didn't get paid one of my summers and things felt rough, but I was able to make it through (I think) with less than 5k.

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby linquest » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:Now, I'm assuming 1L firm jobs are out of the picture. Where else can I make money? Should I mass mail smaller firms? Should I get in contact with alumni who work in-house at corporations? I would really appreciate any help.

And would it really be horrible not to have a legal job this summer? Like if I worked as a temp office assistant somewhere, would it hurt me during OCI? I could maybe volunteer at a legal non-profit on the side.


You're not out of options yet, but you do need to continue applying. BigLaw firm jobs are out, but smaller firms and other types of organizations are not. Some smaller firms may just be finding room in their budgets now to hire for the summer. Contacting in-house alumni is also a good idea. Also, a lot of non-profits are just now getting funding. ACLU and other civil rights groups have received a flood of donations thanks to Trump so may now find themselves in the position to offer stipends at least. Another tactic that I've seen used successfully is to apply to temp paralegal jobs and parlay that into a legal internship.

Yes, it would be absolutely horrible for you not to get a legal job your first summer. I'm involved with hiring/interviewing interns and new attorneys for a government agency and I've never considered hiring a 2L for an internship or a 3L for our Honors Program that didn't have substantive legal experience for the first summer. The vast majority of your classmates will have done legal work over this summer, so it will be even harder for you to stand out in your job hunt later on.

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Re: Paying jobs for 1L?

Postby zot1 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:05 am

linquest wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Now, I'm assuming 1L firm jobs are out of the picture. Where else can I make money? Should I mass mail smaller firms? Should I get in contact with alumni who work in-house at corporations? I would really appreciate any help.

And would it really be horrible not to have a legal job this summer? Like if I worked as a temp office assistant somewhere, would it hurt me during OCI? I could maybe volunteer at a legal non-profit on the side.


You're not out of options yet, but you do need to continue applying. BigLaw firm jobs are out, but smaller firms and other types of organizations are not. Some smaller firms may just be finding room in their budgets now to hire for the summer. Contacting in-house alumni is also a good idea. Also, a lot of non-profits are just now getting funding. ACLU and other civil rights groups have received a flood of donations thanks to Trump so may now find themselves in the position to offer stipends at least. Another tactic that I've seen used successfully is to apply to temp paralegal jobs and parlay that into a legal internship.

Yes, it would be absolutely horrible for you not to get a legal job your first summer. I'm involved with hiring/interviewing interns and new attorneys for a government agency and I've never considered hiring a 2L for an internship or a 3L for our Honors Program that didn't have substantive legal experience for the first summer. The vast majority of your classmates will have done legal work over this summer, so it will be even harder for you to stand out in your job hunt later on.


Same here. I imagine biglaw folks would feel the same way. Unless your non-legal experience was something ridiculously awesome. Working a Starbucks for the summer won't be it.



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