Fired from Big Law today

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sparty99

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby sparty99 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:39 pm

whattodowithmylife wrote:
johndhi wrote:Sorry to hear that. From your post, you're clearly a good writer, so don't feel down on your law skills. Law skills are barely a thing, anyhow.

I recommend downloading an app called Insight Timer (it's a guided meditation thing) and listening to one called Accepting Change by Sarah Blondin ("Live Awake"). That really helps me feel better when I feel like I'm floating in a vacuum and scared of the future.

You've probably heard it before and won't listen until you know it's true, but these moments are when we really grow.


I haven't heard of these apps actually, but will download now! Even though I am an atheist, right now I am totally needing spiritual guidance and even considered visiting a Unitarian church....

Also, thanks so much for the compliment on writing - that is so meaningful to me.


Joel Osteen has some pretty good sermons. A great public speaker.

barcoach

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby barcoach » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:59 pm

Re: Fired from Big Law today!

Focus on the positive and remind yourself of what you have to offer. From what you shared it sounds like it was not a good fit for you and learning that early on is a blessing. Now you can move on to what is right for you!

Try to negotiate a 6 month transition time and continue to work as best you can. Leave knowing your integrity and work ethic is strong. No matter what the firm "did to you" it does not matter. You have the ability to move on to another position that is satisfying to you.

Doors to new and better opportunities will open walk in and take a chance.

Yes you can and you will survive this and become stronger and better in your new adventure!

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oil

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby oil » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:04 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Joel Osteen has some pretty good sermons. A great public speaker.


We're not trying to ruin the man's life here.

Genius

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby Genius » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:16 pm

sparty99 wrote:
whattodowithmylife wrote:
johndhi wrote:Sorry to hear that. From your post, you're clearly a good writer, so don't feel down on your law skills. Law skills are barely a thing, anyhow.

I recommend downloading an app called Insight Timer (it's a guided meditation thing) and listening to one called Accepting Change by Sarah Blondin ("Live Awake"). That really helps me feel better when I feel like I'm floating in a vacuum and scared of the future.

You've probably heard it before and won't listen until you know it's true, but these moments are when we really grow.


I haven't heard of these apps actually, but will download now! Even though I am an atheist, right now I am totally needing spiritual guidance and even considered visiting a Unitarian church....

Also, thanks so much for the compliment on writing - that is so meaningful to me.


Joel Osteen has some pretty good sermons. A great public speaker.


Agreed. Joel Osteen is legit. He is far from a the Xtian wackos on evangelical shows.

OP, please stay away from cults at this sensitive time in ur life. No UFO plz.

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:21 pm

Really though... a V10 firing junior associates is sort of newsworthy. If I was getting fired, I would negotiate my severance with any leverage I could get my hands on... including, going to the press. Why not press where law firms are most vulnerable? But maybe I am just more shameless than others.

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Devlin

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby Devlin » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Really though... a V10 firing junior associates is sort of newsworthy. If I was getting fired, I would negotiate my severance with any leverage I could get my hands on... including, going to the press. Why not press where law firms are most vulnerable? But maybe I am just more shameless than others.

This advice is worse than listening to Joel Osteen.

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nealric

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby nealric » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:31 pm

Genius wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
whattodowithmylife wrote:
johndhi wrote:Sorry to hear that. From your post, you're clearly a good writer, so don't feel down on your law skills. Law skills are barely a thing, anyhow.

I recommend downloading an app called Insight Timer (it's a guided meditation thing) and listening to one called Accepting Change by Sarah Blondin ("Live Awake"). That really helps me feel better when I feel like I'm floating in a vacuum and scared of the future.

You've probably heard it before and won't listen until you know it's true, but these moments are when we really grow.


I haven't heard of these apps actually, but will download now! Even though I am an atheist, right now I am totally needing spiritual guidance and even considered visiting a Unitarian church....

Also, thanks so much for the compliment on writing - that is so meaningful to me.


Joel Osteen has some pretty good sermons. A great public speaker.


Agreed. Joel Osteen is legit. He is far from a the Xtian wackos on evangelical shows.

OP, please stay away from cults at this sensitive time in ur life. No UFO plz.


If one isn't already familiar with Christian theology, I wouldn't suggest Osteen as an introduction. He gets a lot of criticism from mainstream Christian theologians for indulging in prosperity gospel-type preaching (essentially, God wants you to be rich, faith leads to worldly success). I can see the appeal to someone who has had a career setback, but I don't see him as a great guide to a spiritual re-awakening.

RaceJudicata

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby RaceJudicata » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:39 pm

Devlin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really though... a V10 firing junior associates is sort of newsworthy. If I was getting fired, I would negotiate my severance with any leverage I could get my hands on... including, going to the press. Why not press where law firms are most vulnerable? But maybe I am just more shameless than others.

This advice is worse than listening to Joel Osteen.


Also, a very brave use of anon. Thankfully, OP seems quite smart and probably won't do this.

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MKC

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby MKC » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:40 pm

gaddockteeg wrote:The most shocking part of this to me is that this is a top10 firm and you didn't make any mistakes. I was considering leaving my current firm, but now I'm terrified of doing so.


Not to be a dick here, but this:

whattodowithmylife wrote:I billed probably 1500 hours last year, plus a ton of pro bono for the fun of it and to pad my hours. (Love pro bono. Guess Big Law was the wrong decision.)


seems like a mistake.
Last edited by MKC on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dailygrind

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby dailygrind » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:48 pm

If he was billing 1500 hours, I think the pro bono wasn't exactly hurting his performance on his other deals.

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MKC

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby MKC » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:59 pm

dailygrind wrote:If he was billing 1500 hours, I think the pro bono wasn't exactly hurting his performance on his other deals.


I just meant his apparent enthusiasm for pro bono (and thus non-billable) work.
Last edited by MKC on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LaLiLuLeLo

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:06 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
dailygrind wrote:If he was billing 1500 hours, I think the pro bono wasn't exactly hurting his performance on his other deals.


I just meant his apparent enthusiasm for pro bono (and thus non-billable) work.


I don't really see your point. According to OP the work wasn't there. OP did pro bono to fill the gap. And who doesn't enjoy pro bono work? It's likely the amount of pro bono or any "enthusiasm" was a nonfactor.

run26.2

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby run26.2 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:08 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
dailygrind wrote:If he was billing 1500 hours, I think the pro bono wasn't exactly hurting his performance on his other deals.


I just meant his apparent enthusiasm for pro bono (and thus non-billable) work.

How impactful this would be on one's longevity at the firm would depend on the firm and office.

Genius

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby Genius » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:24 pm

nealric wrote:
Genius wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
whattodowithmylife wrote:
johndhi wrote:Sorry to hear that. From your post, you're clearly a good writer, so don't feel down on your law skills. Law skills are barely a thing, anyhow.

I recommend downloading an app called Insight Timer (it's a guided meditation thing) and listening to one called Accepting Change by Sarah Blondin ("Live Awake"). That really helps me feel better when I feel like I'm floating in a vacuum and scared of the future.

You've probably heard it before and won't listen until you know it's true, but these moments are when we really grow.


I haven't heard of these apps actually, but will download now! Even though I am an atheist, right now I am totally needing spiritual guidance and even considered visiting a Unitarian church....

Also, thanks so much for the compliment on writing - that is so meaningful to me.


Joel Osteen has some pretty good sermons. A great public speaker.


Agreed. Joel Osteen is legit. He is far from a the Xtian wackos on evangelical shows.

OP, please stay away from cults at this sensitive time in ur life. No UFO plz.


If one isn't already familiar with Christian theology, I wouldn't suggest Osteen as an introduction. He gets a lot of criticism from mainstream Christian theologians for indulging in prosperity gospel-type preaching (essentially, God wants you to be rich, faith leads to worldly success). I can see the appeal to someone who has had a career setback, but I don't see him as a great guide to a spiritual re-awakening.


I stand corrected. I remembered Osteen when I was in high school but I also remembered later on that he was no different than profit motivated televangelist.

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dailygrind

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby dailygrind » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:56 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
dailygrind wrote:If he was billing 1500 hours, I think the pro bono wasn't exactly hurting his performance on his other deals.


I just meant his apparent enthusiasm for pro bono (and thus non-billable) work.


I don't really see your point. According to OP the work wasn't there. OP did pro bono to fill the gap. And who doesn't enjoy pro bono work? It's likely the amount of pro bono or any "enthusiasm" was a nonfactor.


Pro bono is great. I get like 5 times as much freedom to run the deal however I want on pro bono projects. They're way more interesting than my normal deals. And, you know, my pro bono clients actually do things that I can feel good about.

whattodowithmylife

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby whattodowithmylife » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:04 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
dailygrind wrote:If he was billing 1500 hours, I think the pro bono wasn't exactly hurting his performance on his other deals.


I just meant his apparent enthusiasm for pro bono (and thus non-billable) work.


I don't really see your point. According to OP the work wasn't there. OP did pro bono to fill the gap. And who doesn't enjoy pro bono work? It's likely the amount of pro bono or any "enthusiasm" was a nonfactor.


Yes- this is correct. To clarify, I only started doing pro bono after a year had passed and the workpace was stillslow. I wanted to feel like a productive human being again. I'm not exactly a gung-ho public interest person, to be honest.

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:24 pm

whattodowithmylife wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
dailygrind wrote:If he was billing 1500 hours, I think the pro bono wasn't exactly hurting his performance on his other deals.


I just meant his apparent enthusiasm for pro bono (and thus non-billable) work.


I don't really see your point. According to OP the work wasn't there. OP did pro bono to fill the gap. And who doesn't enjoy pro bono work? It's likely the amount of pro bono or any "enthusiasm" was a nonfactor.


Yes- this is correct. To clarify, I only started doing pro bono after a year had passed and the workpace was stillslow. I wanted to feel like a productive human being again. I'm not exactly a gung-ho public interest person, to be honest.

This is normally fine. If they wanted you doing more billable work they should give it to you.

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smokeylarue

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby smokeylarue » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:52 pm

Sounds like there simply was not enough work, don't feel too bad. I feel like being slow is actually not that uncommon in satellite small offices no matter how large the firm is nationally. Not saying it'll be a cake walk but I would guess you'll have no problem finding something within 3 months especially with that firm name on your resume.

gaddockteeg

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby gaddockteeg » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:53 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
gaddockteeg wrote:The most shocking part of this to me is that this is a top10 firm and you didn't make any mistakes. I was considering leaving my current firm, but now I'm terrified of doing so.


Not to be a dick here, but this:

whattodowithmylife wrote:I billed probably 1500 hours last year, plus a ton of pro bono for the fun of it and to pad my hours. (Love pro bono. Guess Big Law was the wrong decision.)


seems like a mistake.


Fair enough, but 1500 hours doesn't sound like their fault. And if they were slow, why not do pro bono?

I think I can understand a lower firm having trouble with 1500 hours, but a top10 is what gets me. I always assumed top10 firms did not care as much about junior associate profitability (if it meant good publicity) because they were financially stable enough. For instance, I know a number of people at Skadden who billed over 1000 pro bono hours as a junior and got a freaking awards for it. My own firm (PPP over 2.5mm) is also incredibly generous with pro bono: unlimited pro bono. I know a nonequity partner at my firm who billed something like 30% of their entire time on pro bono last year.

bb678945

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby bb678945 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:10 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:
Devlin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really though... a V10 firing junior associates is sort of newsworthy. If I was getting fired, I would negotiate my severance with any leverage I could get my hands on... including, going to the press. Why not press where law firms are most vulnerable? But maybe I am just more shameless than others.

This advice is worse than listening to Joel Osteen.


Also, a very brave use of anon. Thankfully, OP seems quite smart and probably won't do this.


But seriously, how else would one negotiate more time, say from 1 month to 3 or 4?

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Pokemon

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby Pokemon » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:14 pm

bb678945 wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
Devlin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really though... a V10 firing junior associates is sort of newsworthy. If I was getting fired, I would negotiate my severance with any leverage I could get my hands on... including, going to the press. Why not press where law firms are most vulnerable? But maybe I am just more shameless than others.

This advice is worse than listening to Joel Osteen.


Also, a very brave use of anon. Thankfully, OP seems quite smart and probably won't do this.


But seriously, how else would one negotiate more time, say from 1 month to 3 or 4?


I mean in most jobs you do not get any time. And yes you can go public and embarrass firm but that also hurts you much more than it hurts the firm since no firm will touch you with a ten foot pole.

bb678945

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby bb678945 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:46 pm

Pokemon wrote:
bb678945 wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
Devlin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really though... a V10 firing junior associates is sort of newsworthy. If I was getting fired, I would negotiate my severance with any leverage I could get my hands on... including, going to the press. Why not press where law firms are most vulnerable? But maybe I am just more shameless than others.

This advice is worse than listening to Joel Osteen.


Also, a very brave use of anon. Thankfully, OP seems quite smart and probably won't do this.


But seriously, how else would one negotiate more time, say from 1 month to 3 or 4?


I mean in most jobs you do not get any time. And yes you can go public and embarrass firm but that also hurts you much more than it hurts the firm since no firm will touch you with a ten foot pole.


I'm not so sure about that. There's plenty of things you can leak to the media as an anonymous source. Seems like a few months of severance is peanuts compared to the potential damage of news re [insert shady thing firm did].

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:50 pm

bb678945 wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
Devlin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really though... a V10 firing junior associates is sort of newsworthy. If I was getting fired, I would negotiate my severance with any leverage I could get my hands on... including, going to the press. Why not press where law firms are most vulnerable? But maybe I am just more shameless than others.

This advice is worse than listening to Joel Osteen.


Also, a very brave use of anon. Thankfully, OP seems quite smart and probably won't do this.


But seriously, how else would one negotiate more time, say from 1 month to 3 or 4?


I don't think the right term here is "negotiate". As a junior, you have almost no leverage. The best you could do is to ask politely and continue to give reasonable effort to any matters you are on. Just be professional. Any attempt to out or shame the firm just seems utterly stupid. Firms exist to make money and sometimes have to let people go. Do not take it personally. In any event, look at Latham. They got tons of bad press but I bet they don't have any trouble filling their associate ranks or doubt they lost any clients.

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bb678945 wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
Devlin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really though... a V10 firing junior associates is sort of newsworthy. If I was getting fired, I would negotiate my severance with any leverage I could get my hands on... including, going to the press. Why not press where law firms are most vulnerable? But maybe I am just more shameless than others.

This advice is worse than listening to Joel Osteen.


Also, a very brave use of anon. Thankfully, OP seems quite smart and probably won't do this.


But seriously, how else would one negotiate more time, say from 1 month to 3 or 4?


I don't think the right term here is "negotiate". As a junior, you have almost no leverage. The best you could do is to ask politely and continue to give reasonable effort to any matters you are on. Just be professional. Any attempt to out or shame the firm just seems utterly stupid. Firms exist to make money and sometimes have to let people go. Do not take it personally. In any event, look at Latham. They got tons of bad press but I bet they don't have any trouble filling their associate ranks or doubt they lost any clients.


Just google, "how to negotiate severance." I was laid off once (non-legal) and asked for two additional weeks of severance, so it does work. Also, as someone said previously, do not take any VACATION DAYS. You will need those vacation days so the firm can pay it out to you. And don't get greedy on the negotiation. Severance is not a right. Usually a company will give one or two weeks for every year of service. Thus, think about whether asking for four months is appropriate when three might be more palatable to your employer.

Npret

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Re: Fired from Big Law today

Postby Npret » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:05 am

bb678945 wrote:
Pokemon wrote:
bb678945 wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
Devlin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really though... a V10 firing junior associates is sort of newsworthy. If I was getting fired, I would negotiate my severance with any leverage I could get my hands on... including, going to the press. Why not press where law firms are most vulnerable? But maybe I am just more shameless than others.

This advice is worse than listening to Joel Osteen.


Also, a very brave use of anon. Thankfully, OP seems quite smart and probably won't do this.


But seriously, how else would one negotiate more time, say from 1 month to 3 or 4?


I mean in most jobs you do not get any time. And yes you can go public and embarrass firm but that also hurts you much more than it hurts the firm since no firm will touch you with a ten foot pole.


I'm not so sure about that. There's plenty of things you can leak to the media as an anonymous source. Seems like a few months of severance is peanuts compared to the potential damage of news re [insert shady thing firm did].

Have you ever looked for a job? OP needs solid references from the firm. Also, anyone hiring OP would be smart enough to suspect the source of a leak.?
OP needs to do a good job, be professional, keep them generally informed of how things are going and then be in a good spot to look ask for more time if needed.

Also, OP this isn't time for a spiritual quest. Get counseling and advice as you need it and stay supported but don't lose focus. You need another job, maybe you will change career paths, but try to keep focused and moving forward with your career.



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