Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

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Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:45 pm

Background: V50 Major market Transactional 2nd year. I had a really rough start to Biglaw, I came in trying to slack, got chewed up, assigned to awful partners, awful deals, or no deals at all, dealt with soooo much politics and ultimately got asked to leave.

Because of the above I feel like I barely learned from Biglaw and don't necessarily know how much I hate Biglaw vs. the hate I had for my experience (since my experience was based on being stuck with people who wanted to kick me out, give me the worst deals, and I was constantly concerned about being fired)

Considering 2 options.

1. V100's HQ's in smaller market - known to be best in that market and to work one really hard - I will not slack there, learn from previous mistakes
2. In-house gig that is quasi legal - quasi business but pays the same amount as option 1 (150ish - 180) but like 9-6pm

Goals: 5-10 years from now I want to be making 200k+ - maybe that is unrealistic, but hey, that's the goal, willing to work as hard as I need to to accomplish that goal, though I would prefer not to spend my entire life working 10am -11pm. I don't know if I prefer business work or law work, I just want to make a good living to support my family.

Question: Will staying 2 more years at Biglaw increase my marketability, and pay over the rest of my career or am I not going to get anything better than option 2 anyhow. I am worried if I choose option 2, my pay will never/ slowly increase and forever my marketability and career growth will be stunted and that putting in 2 more years in BigLaw will suck but pay dividends over the rest of my career.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:06 pm

I mean, to me its no question. If the In-house role is really 9-6 and pays well into six-figures like that, I would take that any day over a law firm.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I mean, to me its no question. If the In-house role is really 9-6 and pays well into six-figures like that, I would take that any day over a law firm.


OP here: you wouldn't be concerned it will be short term awesomeness trade for long-term less compensation and marketability. Essentially trading a few nice years for the next 30 years of less career opportunities ?

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:43 pm

In house would be no brainer to me. I don't particularly like legal work though. A big reason why biglaw sucks IMO is the amount of grunt work that lawyers have to do...being a business person would probably be much better because you wouldn't have to deal with constant paper grinding.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I mean, to me its no question. If the In-house role is really 9-6 and pays well into six-figures like that, I would take that any day over a law firm.


OP here: you wouldn't be concerned it will be short term awesomeness trade for long-term less compensation and marketability. Essentially trading a few nice years for the next 30 years of less career opportunities ?


You're a self admitted slacker but you're concerned about limited career options that can net you $200k+? Come on, man.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I mean, to me its no question. If the In-house role is really 9-6 and pays well into six-figures like that, I would take that any day over a law firm.


OP here: you wouldn't be concerned it will be short term awesomeness trade for long-term less compensation and marketability. Essentially trading a few nice years for the next 30 years of less career opportunities ?


Not at all, and honestly, if in house sucks, you can likely get out and back to a firm with in a year. I went in-house in a quasi business/legal role and it was terrible both hours wise and people wise, so i was gone within 6 months and back to a firm. If I found an actual 9-6 in-house gig that was paying me big law salary, I would take it and never look back.

Also, the more senior I get (4th year now), the more trapped I actually feel and it gets harder to really differentiate yourself. In-house are not easy to get even with 4 years experience. If I found a job that was semi-enjoyable, 9-6 and paid me that well, I would be gone in a heartbeat. Also, when you have time to actually enjoy life you can figure out if any of this is actually for you, or if you were meant to try something else in your career.

That is just my take though. Plus, if you want to end up in-house anyways, why not just make the jump now and save yourself two years of stress and mental health checks.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:21 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I mean, to me its no question. If the In-house role is really 9-6 and pays well into six-figures like that, I would take that any day over a law firm.


OP here: you wouldn't be concerned it will be short term awesomeness trade for long-term less compensation and marketability. Essentially trading a few nice years for the next 30 years of less career opportunities ?


You're a self admitted slacker but you're concerned about limited career options that can net you $200k+? Come on, man.


Op: 1. Fair enough 2. I slackED, doesn't mean I have never or cannot work hard. I am willing to work as hard as neccesary to accomplish my goals, I miscaulcated the work ethic I needed for biglaw and will not make that mistake again. 3. My goals may be unlikely given I like to slack, but I can still aim for them and trying to gather information about how to best aim for them

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:24 pm

OP, got a question. Why did you come in trying to slack off? Do you have no debt? Only asking because most people I know are so scared and crazy, they are willing to literally do anything their first two years. How did you manage to slack off? Asking, because I want to slack off as well.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I mean, to me its no question. If the In-house role is really 9-6 and pays well into six-figures like that, I would take that any day over a law firm.


OP here: you wouldn't be concerned it will be short term awesomeness trade for long-term less compensation and marketability. Essentially trading a few nice years for the next 30 years of less career opportunities ?



That is just my take though. Plus, if you want to end up in-house anyways, why not just make the jump now and save yourself two years of stress and mental health checks.


That's the essence of my question. Will 2 more years in biglaw help at all in the later game, maybe I'll get better opportunities because of it, higher pay, or have more options if I decide to leave the company? Or maybe after 2 more years of biglaw I'll have worse options than the In-house gig I have right now? It's hard to imagine that 2 more years of biglaw will HURT my exit options

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP, got a question. Why did you come in trying to slack off? Do you have no debt? Only asking because most people I know are so scared and crazy, they are willing to literally do anything their first two years. How did you manage to slack off? Asking, because I want to slack off as well.


I thought juniors were immune to getting fired. I handed in work without double checking, and just did shit quality work. It instantly hurt my reputation and it was nearly impossible to recover after that.

My advice, If you wanna slack treat it like law school. Work your ass off the first year, thus developing a great reputation and that'll cover you for a while when you start slacking your 2nd and 3rd year

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby smokeylarue » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:46 pm

The in-house option sounds like the type of position and salary 5th and 6th year associates are fighting over. Take it and run, would be curious to find out how you got it too with only 2 years experience at a law firm! Congrats.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I mean, to me its no question. If the In-house role is really 9-6 and pays well into six-figures like that, I would take that any day over a law firm.


OP here: you wouldn't be concerned it will be short term awesomeness trade for long-term less compensation and marketability. Essentially trading a few nice years for the next 30 years of less career opportunities ?


You're a self admitted slacker but you're concerned about limited career options that can net you $200k+? Come on, man.


Op: 1. Fair enough 2. I slackED, doesn't mean I have never or cannot work hard. I am willing to work as hard as neccesary to accomplish my goals, I miscaulcated the work ethic I needed for biglaw and will not make that mistake again. 3. My goals may be unlikely given I like to slack, but I can still aim for them and trying to gather information about how to best aim for them

No offense, but you are obviously not willing to work as hard as necessary to accomplish the goal of making $200k because you didn't work hard enough to keep a job that would definitely pay you that within three years.

No shame in that, but be honest with yourself here.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:50 pm

Anyway, what is so great about $200k instead of the $150k to $180k that you'll be making at the other job? It's a dumb aspiration. Again, no offense.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:57 pm

.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:00 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Anyway, what is so great about $200k instead of the $150k to $180k that you'll be making at the other job? It's a dumb aspiration. Again, no offense.


Again, I prefer not to get distracted by the numbers and prefer actual advice. However, I was raised on an equivalent of a 250-300 household. All that money was spent on me and my siblings and my parents didn't have much left over. Yes I was privledged. No, please don't turn this into an argument about how much money is needed. Yes, I want to be able to provide my kids similar opportunities

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:Anyway, what is so great about $200k instead of the $150k to $180k that you'll be making at the other job? It's a dumb aspiration. Again, no offense.


Again, I prefer not to get distracted by the numbers and prefer actual advice. However, I was raised on an equivalent of a 250-300 household. All that money was spent on me and my siblings and my parents didn't have much left over. Yes I was privledged. No, please don't turn this into an argument about how much money is needed. Yes, I want to be able to provide my kids similar opportunities

That makes more sense. Anyway, my advice, though maybe it was somewhat indirect before, remains to take the in-house job. However that is based on my assessment that making the kind of salary you're talking about is going to suck and jobs that pay a little less with a much better lifestyle are unicorns that should be seized at any opportunity. If your overwhelming priority is truly just to make a bit more money, then the firm is probably the better route to achieve that, but for 90% of people that is not a smart trade off.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:32 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:You're a self admitted slacker but you're concerned about limited career options that can net you $200k+? Come on, man.


No shame in that, but be honest with yourself here.



Again, I made a mistake. It won't happen again. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future performance and just because I did not work hard does not mean that I wont and does not mean that I am not willing to. Though, if you prefer, for the sake of argument can we just pretend that I am willing to so we can move on and I can hear some advice?

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:46 pm

I don't get it. If the in house gig is really 9-6 that pays in the mid 100s what is your concern here? That is more than enough to support your family. You already know how miserable biglaw can be. Do you think it really is worth it for additional 50k? No brainer here.

That being said, if your goal (as you stated) is just to make more money, then staying in biglaw is probably a better choice. But remember, even biglaw associates with 3 plus years of experience primarily exit into in-house positions that pay around mid 100s. So yeah, you may end up at in-house either way.

Edits: reread your posts.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Npret » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:59 pm

Just go I house and build a career instead of planning to change jobs in twoyears. Who knows what the fuck will happen between now and then.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:46 pm

Npret wrote:Just go I house and build a career instead of planning to change jobs in twoyears. Who knows what the fuck will happen between now and then.


OP here, problem is, who is to say I like the in-house career any better? It sounds good but I have no actual experience at the company... What will change in the next 2 years? well that is the essence of the question. I THINK a few things MAY change but would like to know if that is correct 1. I will be more marketable in case I wanna leave the company since 4 years of biglaw may allow me to learn more and be more impressive to future employers 2. I will be able to find a higher paying in-house gig. Will either of those happen??

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Npret » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Npret wrote:Just go I house and build a career instead of planning to change jobs in twoyears. Who knows what the fuck will happen between now and then.


OP here, problem is, who is to say I like the in-house career any better? It sounds good but I have no actual experience at the company... What will change in the next 2 years? well that is the essence of the question. I THINK a few things MAY change but would like to know if that is correct 1. I will be more marketable in case I wanna leave the company since 4 years of biglaw may allow me to learn more and be more impressive to future employers 2. I will be able to find a higher paying in-house gig. Will either of those happen??

I don't know the future. My point is it's better to just go to the job you want and build a real career. If you are planning on only staying two years in your next job and then have to job hunt again, go for the firm because it sounds like that what you want to do.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:38 pm

Planning on staying 2 years in big law is just a wash man. Longest amount of time i've spent at one firm has been 1.5 years with my first firm. On my third job and this is my second firm and I have barely made it 6 months before thinking I just can't do this shit. The job is just brutal and unless you are really willing to give up your life for two years, I would take the in-house job
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby nealric » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Npret wrote:Just go I house and build a career instead of planning to change jobs in twoyears. Who knows what the fuck will happen between now and then.


OP here, problem is, who is to say I like the in-house career any better? It sounds good but I have no actual experience at the company... What will change in the next 2 years? well that is the essence of the question. I THINK a few things MAY change but would like to know if that is correct 1. I will be more marketable in case I wanna leave the company since 4 years of biglaw may allow me to learn more and be more impressive to future employers 2. I will be able to find a higher paying in-house gig. Will either of those happen??


I went in-house after 3-years of biglaw. It would be tough to convince me to go back to biglaw. Doubful that a few more years of biglaw will substantially increase your salary. May depend a lot on the company, but mine has pay grades. Coming in as a more senior person may allow you to start with a higher title and grade, but if you are reasonably successful at the company you will end up at that same pay grade after the same number of years. Likely a different story if you were already a biglaw partner though if it means you are considered for very senior/executive type roles that aren't part of the regular payscale progression.

The main thing to be concerned about is to be sure you jive with the corporate culture, and feel like you can add value to the business. Is this a situation where they are going to expect you to run with deals by yourself, or will you be be under senior people who are expecting to guide and mentor you?

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:47 pm

OP here, forgot to mention, I don't wanna live in NYC for forever and worried moving geographically in house is a lot harder than switching biglaw offices. Is that a valid concern?

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Re: Is there any point on doing 2 more years of Biglaw - Considering lateraling in-house

Postby nealric » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here, forgot to mention, I don't wanna live in NYC for forever and worried moving geographically in house is a lot harder than switching biglaw offices. Is that a valid concern?


Most companies are going to have their lawyers mostly in the HQ office, with only a small number elsewhere (and usually related to a specific assignment). May depend on industry though. The attitude of most companies is that you will be expected to live where they want you.

Inter-office transfers within the same firm may depend a lot on the specific firm and the office you want, as well as how much they want to retain you.

I will say that once you have worked in house, it's easier to get another in house job. You make connections in the in-house world, especially in your industry.



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