Ethnic minority last names affect your application and interview Forum

[Genius]

With all due respect, I think this may be a victim mentality.

Law firms are businesses after all. The executives that the law firm works for are mostly white. Call it a glass ceiling, call it a macro societal problem but it's just this way and how things work currently. Until we get more ethnic minority leaders to raise to the top, clients will want to work with who they're comfortable with. Honestly I also think that many ethnic minority students are just plain awkward; I'm at T14 and I've seen my asian peers slowly locking themselves up with just being friends with asians. They don't come to our parties, they consciously see us as different. They're the one that approach life with them vs. us mentality. Yeah, Asians may be smart and know how to crunch exams (it's well known that apalsa outlines are one of the best) but many just don't do well during interviews and aside from few who are decent and fun, I wouldn't want to work with them past 2am. People don't want to work with awkward people.

Not to mention that White males also have to deal with the stereotype that we're loud, assertive, less smart, and a d-bag. Look we can table this discussion because it's obviously a complex issue but this reminded me of something that I noticed in undergrad and at a law school. Why do asians stick with just asians?

What you just described is called racism you moron.

[Hikikomorist]

*sigh*

[dabigchina]

With all due respect, I think this may be a victim mentality.

Law firms are businesses after all. The executives that the law firm works for are mostly white. Call it a glass ceiling, call it a macro societal problem but it's just this way and how things work currently. Until we get more ethnic minority leaders to raise to the top, clients will want to work with who they're comfortable with. Honestly I also think that many ethnic minority students are just plain awkward; I'm at T14 and I've seen my asian peers slowly locking themselves up with just being friends with asians. They don't come to our parties, they consciously see us as different. They're the one that approach life with them vs. us mentality. Yeah, Asians may be smart and know how to crunch exams (it's well known that apalsa outlines are one of the best) but many just don't do well during interviews and aside from few who are decent and fun, I wouldn't want to work with them past 2am. People don't want to work with awkward people.

Not to mention that White males also have to deal with the stereotype that we're loud, assertive, less smart, and a d-bag. Look we can table this discussion because it's obviously a complex issue but this reminded me of something that I noticed in undergrad and at a law school. Why do asians stick with just asians?

What you just described is called racism you moron.

i think we established that this anon is actually asian and was being sarcastic.

[Phil Brooks]

Racism is about systems, not individual beliefs. Prejudice is about individual beliefs. There's anti-white prejudice. There isn't anti-white racism, because there simply hasn't ever been systematic use of law/economics/force/etc to enforce anti-white prejudice. Individuals can be racist, or they can be anti-white, but they're not really the same thing. It's not a ludicrous argument, it's a pretty common way to talk about the different situations.

Very nuanced, academic point that is absolutely counter-productive in everyday situations and in politics because after people hear "There is no such thing as racism against white people" they stop listening.

Kind of the same way people stopped listening after they heard Trump say "Mexican rapists," even though technically he was talking about a policy by the government of Mexico (NY Times in 2005 revealed evidence of this policy: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/world ... .html?_r=0).

If you're going to advance a controversial proposition under the guise of making a very subtle, technical argument, then you better give the same benefit of the doubt to people who do the same thing on the other side.

[nevdash]

Racism is about systems, not individual beliefs. Prejudice is about individual beliefs. There's anti-white prejudice. There isn't anti-white racism, because there simply hasn't ever been systematic use of law/economics/force/etc to enforce anti-white prejudice. Individuals can be racist, or they can be anti-white, but they're not really the same thing. It's not a ludicrous argument, it's a pretty common way to talk about the different situations.

I hate to disagree with you, but imma have to. Every single time a "diverse" kid takes a spot at an elite school, regardless how high their qualifications, the system is showing systematic racism against our white boys. This is war and we must do something about it.

Your last sentence makes me wonder if you're being sarcastic or not, but Nony, assuming this post is serious, what's your response? How is affirmative action not systematized discrimination under the law based on race that disproportionately affects white people in a negative way? Regardless of whether you think AA is a good thing and regardless of whether you think it's legally justified, it seems to be an instance of anti-white racism under your definition.

[zot1]

Racism is about systems, not individual beliefs. Prejudice is about individual beliefs. There's anti-white prejudice. There isn't anti-white racism, because there simply hasn't ever been systematic use of law/economics/force/etc to enforce anti-white prejudice. Individuals can be racist, or they can be anti-white, but they're not really the same thing. It's not a ludicrous argument, it's a pretty common way to talk about the different situations.

I hate to disagree with you, but imma have to. Every single time a "diverse" kid takes a spot at an elite school, regardless how high their qualifications, the system is showing systematic racism against our white boys. This is war and we must do something about it.

Your last sentence makes me wonder if you're being sarcastic or not, but Nony, assuming this post is serious, what's your response? How is affirmative action not systematized discrimination under the law based on race that disproportionately affects white people in a negative way? Regardless of whether you think AA is a good thing, it seems to be an instance of anti-white racism under your definition.

Lol Nev no.

[nevdash]

Racism is about systems, not individual beliefs. Prejudice is about individual beliefs. There's anti-white prejudice. There isn't anti-white racism, because there simply hasn't ever been systematic use of law/economics/force/etc to enforce anti-white prejudice. Individuals can be racist, or they can be anti-white, but they're not really the same thing. It's not a ludicrous argument, it's a pretty common way to talk about the different situations.

I hate to disagree with you, but imma have to. Every single time a "diverse" kid takes a spot at an elite school, regardless how high their qualifications, the system is showing systematic racism against our white boys. This is war and we must do something about it.

Your last sentence makes me wonder if you're being sarcastic or not, but Nony, assuming this post is serious, what's your response? How is affirmative action not systematized discrimination under the law based on race that disproportionately affects white people in a negative way? Regardless of whether you think AA is a good thing, it seems to be an instance of anti-white racism under your definition.

Lol Nev no.

I would appreciate a substantive response.

[zot1]

Racism is about systems, not individual beliefs. Prejudice is about individual beliefs. There's anti-white prejudice. There isn't anti-white racism, because there simply hasn't ever been systematic use of law/economics/force/etc to enforce anti-white prejudice. Individuals can be racist, or they can be anti-white, but they're not really the same thing. It's not a ludicrous argument, it's a pretty common way to talk about the different situations.

I hate to disagree with you, but imma have to. Every single time a "diverse" kid takes a spot at an elite school, regardless how high their qualifications, the system is showing systematic racism against our white boys. This is war and we must do something about it.

Your last sentence makes me wonder if you're being sarcastic or not, but Nony, assuming this post is serious, what's your response? How is affirmative action not systematized discrimination under the law based on race that disproportionately affects white people in a negative way? Regardless of whether you think AA is a good thing, it seems to be an instance of anti-white racism under your definition.

Lol Nev no.

I would appreciate a substantive response.

To me you only said you were wondering if I was serious. My answer is no. I ain't Nony.

But if you want my answer to other questions, classrooms benefit from a diverse environment. Most kids admitted under AA are talented kids who didn't have access to tools to get better grades (for example, taking AP classes to increase GPA). The idea that AA is racist against whites is ridiculous because it's not about saying I can't pick you if ain't white. Rather, it's about trying to find candidates with potential that will add something to the campus environment who maybe didn't have access to an sat class to improve scores.

I would write a longer, more thought out answer but I'm on a short break and on my phone. Sorry.

[nevdash]

Racism is about systems, not individual beliefs. Prejudice is about individual beliefs. There's anti-white prejudice. There isn't anti-white racism, because there simply hasn't ever been systematic use of law/economics/force/etc to enforce anti-white prejudice. Individuals can be racist, or they can be anti-white, but they're not really the same thing. It's not a ludicrous argument, it's a pretty common way to talk about the different situations.

I hate to disagree with you, but imma have to. Every single time a "diverse" kid takes a spot at an elite school, regardless how high their qualifications, the system is showing systematic racism against our white boys. This is war and we must do something about it.

Your last sentence makes me wonder if you're being sarcastic or not, but Nony, assuming this post is serious, what's your response? How is affirmative action not systematized discrimination under the law based on race that disproportionately affects white people in a negative way? Regardless of whether you think AA is a good thing, it seems to be an instance of anti-white racism under your definition.

Lol Nev no.

I would appreciate a substantive response.

To me you only said you were wondering if I was serious. My answer is no. I ain't Nony.

But if you want my answer to other questions, classrooms benefit from a diverse environment. Most kids admitted under AA are talented kids who didn't have access to tools to get better grades (for example, taking AP classes to increase GPA). The idea that AA is racist against whites is ridiculous because it's not about saying I can't pick you if ain't white. Rather, it's about trying to find candidates with potential that will add something to the campus environment who maybe didn't have access to an sat class to improve scores.

I would write a longer, more thought out answer but I'm on a short break and on my phone. Sorry.

Ah, got it.

I definitely understand the rationale behind AA, but my point is that it achieves its purported benefit by discriminating on the basis of race in a way that, at least in the hiring/admission process (as opposed to the classroom environment after the students are admitted or the office environment after the employees are hired), disadvantages white individuals. My comment was supposed to be entirely a comment about Nony's definition of racism, not about the merits of AA. Under her definition, I don't see how AA isn't racist (even if you think it's morally/legally/politically justified racism).

[zot1]

I'm sure there's plenty of literature out there by people who've actually spent time studying the subject matter. But to get you started: http://www.agjohnson.us/glad/is-affirma ... on-racist/

I'll add that the easiest way to put down people who are different is by saying they are taking away something from you (see immigration). But in reality, the issue tends to be more complicated than that.

[Genius]

Racism is about systems, not individual beliefs. Prejudice is about individual beliefs. There's anti-white prejudice. There isn't anti-white racism, because there simply hasn't ever been systematic use of law/economics/force/etc to enforce anti-white prejudice. Individuals can be racist, or they can be anti-white, but they're not really the same thing. It's not a ludicrous argument, it's a pretty common way to talk about the different situations.

I hate to disagree with you, but imma have to. Every single time a "diverse" kid takes a spot at an elite school, regardless how high their qualifications, the system is showing systematic racism against our white boys. This is war and we must do something about it.

Your last sentence makes me wonder if you're being sarcastic or not, but Nony, assuming this post is serious, what's your response? How is affirmative action not systematized discrimination under the law based on race that disproportionately affects white people in a negative way? Regardless of whether you think AA is a good thing and regardless of whether you think it's legally justified, it seems to be an instance of anti-white racism under your definition.

Please ban for blatant AA trolling.

[elendinel]

I think I read studies that also show that white women win the most from AA, just to further throw a wrench into the idea that AA allows racial minorities to take spots from white applicants (true quotas are illegal IIRC, so I'm really curious about that argument). People forget it's not just black people who benefit from AA, even if they are the reason why it was created.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I get that this wasn't your intent with the question, nevdash, but I think answering gets too close to a debate about the merits of AA (mostly because I wouldn't say that it disadvantages whites), which isn't something we can get into here.

It's probably closest to the kind of structural thing I was talking about, though.