AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate Forum

[Anonymous User]

What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks!

[dabigchina]

What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks!

not op, but you can get sc from Columbia with a 3.6. lower t14 needs like a 3.7.

OP: where do you work now?

[Anonymous User]

What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks!

not op, but you can get sc from Columbia with a 3.6. lower t14 needs like a 3.7.

OP: where do you work now?

Thanks. What about Skadden and DPW if you don't mind sharing.

[dabigchina]

What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks!

not op, but you can get sc from Columbia with a 3.6. lower t14 needs like a 3.7.

OP: where do you work now?

Thanks. What about Skadden and DPW if you don't mind sharing.

skadden is less grade sensitive. I think 3.5 would put u in a good spot for them if you aren't a terrible interviewer.

I think dpw is around there but they r very fit sensitive.

[eth1988]

What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks!

3.8. As someone mentioned before, you can get S&C with 3.6.

What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks!

not op, but you can get sc from Columbia with a 3.6. lower t14 needs like a 3.7.

OP: where do you work now?

In-house at investment bank (e.g. JPM/Goldman/Morgan Stanley). Have better control over my work schedule now, though definitely miss many aspects of practicing law at S&C.

[Anonymous User]

What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks!

3.8. As someone mentioned before, you can get S&C with 3.6.

What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks!

not op, but you can get sc from Columbia with a 3.6. lower t14 needs like a 3.7.

OP: where do you work now?

In-house at investment bank (e.g. JPM/Goldman/Morgan Stanley). Have better control over my work schedule now, though definitely miss many aspects of practicing law at S&C.

As a lawyer or as a banker? How's the money?

Also, that's a great GPA. I'm surprised you turned down/didn't get Wachtell. Any reason why?

[eth1988]

What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks!

3.8. As someone mentioned before, you can get S&C with 3.6.

What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks!

not op, but you can get sc from Columbia with a 3.6. lower t14 needs like a 3.7.

OP: where do you work now?

In-house at investment bank (e.g. JPM/Goldman/Morgan Stanley). Have better control over my work schedule now, though definitely miss many aspects of practicing law at S&C.

As a lawyer or as a banker? How's the money?

Also, that's a great GPA. I'm surprised you turned down/didn't get Wachtell. Any reason why?

As a lawyer. Took a slight pay cut compared to the new scale. When I interviewed for banking positions, found out that comps (including bonus) ranged from mid-$300s at the bulge bracket banks to mid-$400 at the elite boutiques for 3rd year investment banking associates. Explored opportunities in banking but stayed a lawyer because I liked practicing law and it was really difficult to get a banking job as a mid-level lawyer due to lack of overlap in skills and frosty hiring market for bankers (easier to lateral to Wachtell than to get a banking position at a top bulge bracket bank/elite boutique, according to a S&C guy who lateraled to Wachtell).

Didn't get Wachtell. Could have been because I got burned out during interviews. Was naive enough to work at 1L SA up to the Friday before the interviews. Not really sure.

[Anonymous User]

As a lawyer. Took a slight pay cut compared to the new scale. When I interviewed for banking positions, found out that comps (including bonus) ranged from mid-$300s at the bulge bracket banks to mid-$400 at the elite boutiques for 3rd year investment banking associates. Explored opportunities in banking but stayed a lawyer because I liked practicing law and it was really difficult to get a banking job as a mid-level lawyer due to lack of overlap in skills and frosty hiring market for bankers (easier to lateral to Wachtell than to get a banking position at a top bulge bracket bank/elite boutique, according to a S&C guy who lateraled to Wachtell).

Didn't get Wachtell. Could have been because I got burned out during interviews. Was naive enough to work at 1L SA up to the Friday before the interviews. Not really sure.

Kind of surprised about the cool hiring market. Was this a while ago or very recently?

[eth1988]

As a lawyer. Took a slight pay cut compared to the new scale. When I interviewed for banking positions, found out that comps (including bonus) ranged from mid-$300s at the bulge bracket banks to mid-$400 at the elite boutiques for 3rd year investment banking associates. Explored opportunities in banking but stayed a lawyer because I liked practicing law and it was really difficult to get a banking job as a mid-level lawyer due to lack of overlap in skills and frosty hiring market for bankers (easier to lateral to Wachtell than to get a banking position at a top bulge bracket bank/elite boutique, according to a S&C guy who lateraled to Wachtell).

Didn't get Wachtell. Could have been because I got burned out during interviews. Was naive enough to work at 1L SA up to the Friday before the interviews. Not really sure.

Kind of surprised about the cool hiring market. Was this a while ago or very recently?

It was last year. There are more qualified people with banking skills than banking jobs because a few of the bulge bracket banks haven't been doing well. Not sure of the state of the market recently.

[lawlorbust]

As a lawyer. Took a slight pay cut compared to the new scale. When I interviewed for banking positions, found out that comps (including bonus) ranged from mid-$300s at the bulge bracket banks to mid-$400 at the elite boutiques for 3rd year investment banking associates. Explored opportunities in banking but stayed a lawyer because I liked practicing law and it was really difficult to get a banking job as a mid-level lawyer due to lack of overlap in skills and frosty hiring market for bankers (easier to lateral to Wachtell than to get a banking position at a top bulge bracket bank/elite boutique, according to a S&C guy who lateraled to Wachtell).

Didn't get Wachtell. Could have been because I got burned out during interviews. Was naive enough to work at 1L SA up to the Friday before the interviews. Not really sure.

Kind of surprised about the cool hiring market. Was this a while ago or very recently?

It was last year. There are more qualified people with banking skills than banking jobs because a few of the bulge bracket banks haven't been doing well. Not sure of the state of the market recently.

C'mon. Which investment banks take biglaw laterals and give them three years of seniority?

[PeanutsNJam]

Someone from Wustl with a gpa less than 3.9 got S&C. (All I know is outside top 5%, which was like 3.89 or something.)

[Anonymous User]

I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.

[Anonymous User]

Would you mind sharing what a "small payout" means in general terms? Also, would you mind sharing how your compensation is structured and how much it increases on a yearly basis? Would love to get a better feel on how much in-house lawyers make at investment banks.

[lawlorbust]

I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.

Doesn't WLRK only do OCI at half the T-14?

[RaceJudicata]

I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.

Doesn't WLRK only do OCI at half the T-14?

Yep - per their site:

university of pennsylvania law school
Columbia Law School
Yale Law School
Harvard Law School
NYU Law School
Stanford Law School
University of Chicago Law School

[eth1988]

As a lawyer. Took a slight pay cut compared to the new scale. When I interviewed for banking positions, found out that comps (including bonus) ranged from mid-$300s at the bulge bracket banks to mid-$400 at the elite boutiques for 3rd year investment banking associates. Explored opportunities in banking but stayed a lawyer because I liked practicing law and it was really difficult to get a banking job as a mid-level lawyer due to lack of overlap in skills and frosty hiring market for bankers (easier to lateral to Wachtell than to get a banking position at a top bulge bracket bank/elite boutique, according to a S&C guy who lateraled to Wachtell).

Didn't get Wachtell. Could have been because I got burned out during interviews. Was naive enough to work at 1L SA up to the Friday before the interviews. Not really sure.

Kind of surprised about the cool hiring market. Was this a while ago or very recently?

It was last year. There are more qualified people with banking skills than banking jobs because a few of the bulge bracket banks haven't been doing well. Not sure of the state of the market recently.

C'mon. Which investment banks take biglaw laterals and give them three years of seniority?

None, as far as I know. Though given the right prior WE before law school, banks will only roll you back one year instead of making you start as a first year. Thus, after working in BigLaw for 3 years (mid-level lawyer), you might start as a third-year associate (again) in IB. I don't disagree that these positions are very competitive to actually get (probably fewer than 5 non-partner level lawyers transition to banking at Goldman/Morgan Stanley/PJT/Evercore/JPM/etc. each year). Making such a transition really set you up to take advantage of the evolving capital markets/finance landscape better than if you only had banking or law experience. If law school wasn't so prohibitively expensive (hard to justify even 3-year JD/MBA programs considering opportunity costs), I'm sure bankers would want to get more of a legal experience as well (at least that's what bankers told me).

I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.

Agree. I went to Ivy UG, so elite UG isn't sufficient. I think in general you have to bring your A-game to interviews and have prior finance/business/accounting experience to get an offer from Wachtell.

Would you mind sharing what a "small payout" means in general terms? Also, would you mind sharing how your compensation is structured and how much it increases on a yearly basis? Would love to get a better feel on how much in-house lawyers make at investment banks.

Happy to provide details on comps through PM.

[FascinatedWanderer]

Could you PM me regarding what your current comp/comp breakdown looks like?

[Anonymous User]

Does S&C consider 3Ls without a 2L Biglaw SA, at all?

[dabigchina]

I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.

Doesn't WLRK only do OCI at half the T-14?

Yep - per their site:

University of Pennsylvania Law School
Columbia Law School
Yale Law School
Harvard Law School
NYU Law School
Stanford Law School
University of Chicago Law School

I'm guessing "lower T14" means CCNP

[Anonymous User]

I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.

Doesn't WLRK only do OCI at half the T-14?

Yep - per their site:

University of Pennsylvania Law School
Columbia Law School
Yale Law School
Harvard Law School
NYU Law School
Stanford Law School
University of Chicago Law School

I'm guessing "lower T14" means CCNP

No it didn't--and I don't think that's how it's used.

Those are the schools where Wachtell holds OCI slots. They will invite top candidates from lower T14 schools to interview.

[Anonymous User]

I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.

Doesn't WLRK only do OCI at half the T-14?

Yep - per their site:

University of Pennsylvania Law School
Columbia Law School
Yale Law School
Harvard Law School
NYU Law School
Stanford Law School
University of Chicago Law School

I'm guessing "lower T14" means CCNP

No it didn't--and I don't think that's how it's used.

Those are the schools where Wachtell holds OCI slots. They will invite top candidates from lower T14 schools to interview.

Uh i'm anon from before and that's exactly what I meant. I forgot people on this site insist on many delineations within the T14, such that CCNP could never be part of the plebeian "lower T14". I'll make sure to be more careful in the future.

[Anonymous User]

Hard to say what makes wachtell tick. I had close to a 3.9 at CLS and also top 5 undergrad with a real major and didn't get a callback (but did get callbacks at more selective firms).

[dabigchina]

Uh i'm anon from before and that's exactly what I meant. I forgot people on this site insist on many delineations within the T14, such that CCNP could never be part of the plebeian "lower T14". I'll make sure to be more careful in the future.

Yes, how dare you lump CCN with those peasants from MVP. We don't pay way too much for rent and tuition to be subjected to such indignities.

[PeanutsNJam]

Hard to say what makes wachtell tick. I had close to a 3.9 at CLS and also top 5 undergrad with a real major and didn't get a callback (but did get callbacks at more selective firms).

Are Susman and Keker really "more selective"? The only firms more selective that I can think of are lit boutiques like the aforementioned, and they respond well to Law Review/clerkships, whereas I suppose those things don't pull as much weight with the big W.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Dear OP,

How many business cards does it take to soften the blow of thinking that you busted your ass at CLS to nab Kent so you could have the privilege of billing 2300 hours only to make the same as the Paul Hastings 1950 dudes who coasted to median at Cornell?

Sincerely,
Eager Beaver