AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:53 am

What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks! :D

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby dabigchina » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks! :D

not op, but you can get sc from Columbia with a 3.6. lower t14 needs like a 3.7.

OP: where do you work now?

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:22 am

dabigchina wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks! :D

not op, but you can get sc from Columbia with a 3.6. lower t14 needs like a 3.7.

OP: where do you work now?

Thanks. What about Skadden and DPW if you don't mind sharing.

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby dabigchina » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks! :D

not op, but you can get sc from Columbia with a 3.6. lower t14 needs like a 3.7.

OP: where do you work now?

Thanks. What about Skadden and DPW if you don't mind sharing.

skadden is less grade sensitive. I think 3.5 would put u in a good spot for them if you aren't a terrible interviewer.

I think dpw is around there but they r very fit sensitive.

eth1988

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby eth1988 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks! :D


3.8. As someone mentioned before, you can get S&C with 3.6.

dabigchina wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks! :D

not op, but you can get sc from Columbia with a 3.6. lower t14 needs like a 3.7.

OP: where do you work now?


In-house at investment bank (e.g. JPM/Goldman/Morgan Stanley). Have better control over my work schedule now, though definitely miss many aspects of practicing law at S&C.

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:37 pm

eth1988 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks! :D


3.8. As someone mentioned before, you can get S&C with 3.6.

dabigchina wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks! :D

not op, but you can get sc from Columbia with a 3.6. lower t14 needs like a 3.7.

OP: where do you work now?


In-house at investment bank (e.g. JPM/Goldman/Morgan Stanley). Have better control over my work schedule now, though definitely miss many aspects of practicing law at S&C.

As a lawyer or as a banker? How's the money?

Also, that's a great GPA. I'm surprised you turned down/didn't get Wachtell. Any reason why?

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby eth1988 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
eth1988 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks! :D


3.8. As someone mentioned before, you can get S&C with 3.6.

dabigchina wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What were your grades going into 2L OCI if you don't mind me asking. Thanks! :D

not op, but you can get sc from Columbia with a 3.6. lower t14 needs like a 3.7.

OP: where do you work now?


In-house at investment bank (e.g. JPM/Goldman/Morgan Stanley). Have better control over my work schedule now, though definitely miss many aspects of practicing law at S&C.

As a lawyer or as a banker? How's the money?

Also, that's a great GPA. I'm surprised you turned down/didn't get Wachtell. Any reason why?


As a lawyer. Took a slight pay cut compared to the new scale. When I interviewed for banking positions, found out that comps (including bonus) ranged from mid-$300s at the bulge bracket banks to mid-$400 at the elite boutiques for 3rd year investment banking associates. Explored opportunities in banking but stayed a lawyer because I liked practicing law and it was really difficult to get a banking job as a mid-level lawyer due to lack of overlap in skills and frosty hiring market for bankers (easier to lateral to Wachtell than to get a banking position at a top bulge bracket bank/elite boutique, according to a S&C guy who lateraled to Wachtell).

Didn't get Wachtell. Could have been because I got burned out during interviews. Was naive enough to work at 1L SA up to the Friday before the interviews. Not really sure.

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:44 am

eth1988 wrote:
As a lawyer. Took a slight pay cut compared to the new scale. When I interviewed for banking positions, found out that comps (including bonus) ranged from mid-$300s at the bulge bracket banks to mid-$400 at the elite boutiques for 3rd year investment banking associates. Explored opportunities in banking but stayed a lawyer because I liked practicing law and it was really difficult to get a banking job as a mid-level lawyer due to lack of overlap in skills and frosty hiring market for bankers (easier to lateral to Wachtell than to get a banking position at a top bulge bracket bank/elite boutique, according to a S&C guy who lateraled to Wachtell).

Didn't get Wachtell. Could have been because I got burned out during interviews. Was naive enough to work at 1L SA up to the Friday before the interviews. Not really sure.

Kind of surprised about the cool hiring market. Was this a while ago or very recently?

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby eth1988 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
eth1988 wrote:
As a lawyer. Took a slight pay cut compared to the new scale. When I interviewed for banking positions, found out that comps (including bonus) ranged from mid-$300s at the bulge bracket banks to mid-$400 at the elite boutiques for 3rd year investment banking associates. Explored opportunities in banking but stayed a lawyer because I liked practicing law and it was really difficult to get a banking job as a mid-level lawyer due to lack of overlap in skills and frosty hiring market for bankers (easier to lateral to Wachtell than to get a banking position at a top bulge bracket bank/elite boutique, according to a S&C guy who lateraled to Wachtell).

Didn't get Wachtell. Could have been because I got burned out during interviews. Was naive enough to work at 1L SA up to the Friday before the interviews. Not really sure.

Kind of surprised about the cool hiring market. Was this a while ago or very recently?


It was last year. There are more qualified people with banking skills than banking jobs because a few of the bulge bracket banks haven't been doing well. Not sure of the state of the market recently.

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby lawlorbust » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:36 am

eth1988 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
eth1988 wrote:
As a lawyer. Took a slight pay cut compared to the new scale. When I interviewed for banking positions, found out that comps (including bonus) ranged from mid-$300s at the bulge bracket banks to mid-$400 at the elite boutiques for 3rd year investment banking associates. Explored opportunities in banking but stayed a lawyer because I liked practicing law and it was really difficult to get a banking job as a mid-level lawyer due to lack of overlap in skills and frosty hiring market for bankers (easier to lateral to Wachtell than to get a banking position at a top bulge bracket bank/elite boutique, according to a S&C guy who lateraled to Wachtell).

Didn't get Wachtell. Could have been because I got burned out during interviews. Was naive enough to work at 1L SA up to the Friday before the interviews. Not really sure.

Kind of surprised about the cool hiring market. Was this a while ago or very recently?


It was last year. There are more qualified people with banking skills than banking jobs because a few of the bulge bracket banks haven't been doing well. Not sure of the state of the market recently.


C'mon. Which investment banks take biglaw laterals and give them three years of seniority?

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby PeanutsNJam » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:37 pm

Someone from Wustl with a gpa less than 3.9 got S&C. (All I know is outside top 5%, which was like 3.89 or something.)

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:45 pm

I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:51 pm

Would you mind sharing what a "small payout" means in general terms? Also, would you mind sharing how your compensation is structured and how much it increases on a yearly basis? Would love to get a better feel on how much in-house lawyers make at investment banks.

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby lawlorbust » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.


Doesn't WLRK only do OCI at half the T-14?

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby RaceJudicata » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:09 pm

lawlorbust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.


Doesn't WLRK only do OCI at half the T-14?


Yep - per their site:

University of Pennsylvania Law School
Columbia Law School
Yale Law School
Harvard Law School
NYU Law School
Stanford Law School
University of Chicago Law School

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby eth1988 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:52 pm

lawlorbust wrote:
eth1988 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
eth1988 wrote:
As a lawyer. Took a slight pay cut compared to the new scale. When I interviewed for banking positions, found out that comps (including bonus) ranged from mid-$300s at the bulge bracket banks to mid-$400 at the elite boutiques for 3rd year investment banking associates. Explored opportunities in banking but stayed a lawyer because I liked practicing law and it was really difficult to get a banking job as a mid-level lawyer due to lack of overlap in skills and frosty hiring market for bankers (easier to lateral to Wachtell than to get a banking position at a top bulge bracket bank/elite boutique, according to a S&C guy who lateraled to Wachtell).

Didn't get Wachtell. Could have been because I got burned out during interviews. Was naive enough to work at 1L SA up to the Friday before the interviews. Not really sure.

Kind of surprised about the cool hiring market. Was this a while ago or very recently?


It was last year. There are more qualified people with banking skills than banking jobs because a few of the bulge bracket banks haven't been doing well. Not sure of the state of the market recently.


C'mon. Which investment banks take biglaw laterals and give them three years of seniority?


None, as far as I know. Though given the right prior WE before law school, banks will only roll you back one year instead of making you start as a first year. Thus, after working in BigLaw for 3 years (mid-level lawyer), you might start as a third-year associate (again) in IB. I don't disagree that these positions are very competitive to actually get (probably fewer than 5 non-partner level lawyers transition to banking at Goldman/Morgan Stanley/PJT/Evercore/JPM/etc. each year). Making such a transition really set you up to take advantage of the evolving capital markets/finance landscape better than if you only had banking or law experience. If law school wasn't so prohibitively expensive (hard to justify even 3-year JD/MBA programs considering opportunity costs), I'm sure bankers would want to get more of a legal experience as well (at least that's what bankers told me).

Anonymous User wrote:I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.


Agree. I went to Ivy UG, so elite UG isn't sufficient. I think in general you have to bring your A-game to interviews and have prior finance/business/accounting experience to get an offer from Wachtell.

Anonymous User wrote:Would you mind sharing what a "small payout" means in general terms? Also, would you mind sharing how your compensation is structured and how much it increases on a yearly basis? Would love to get a better feel on how much in-house lawyers make at investment banks.


Happy to provide details on comps through PM.

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:08 pm

Could you PM me regarding what your current comp/comp breakdown looks like?

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:36 pm

Does S&C consider 3Ls without a 2L Biglaw SA, at all?

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby dabigchina » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:36 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:
lawlorbust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.


Doesn't WLRK only do OCI at half the T-14?


Yep - per their site:

University of Pennsylvania Law School
Columbia Law School
Yale Law School
Harvard Law School
NYU Law School
Stanford Law School
University of Chicago Law School

I'm guessing "lower T14" means CCNP

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:11 pm

dabigchina wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
lawlorbust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.


Doesn't WLRK only do OCI at half the T-14?


Yep - per their site:

University of Pennsylvania Law School
Columbia Law School
Yale Law School
Harvard Law School
NYU Law School
Stanford Law School
University of Chicago Law School

I'm guessing "lower T14" means CCNP


No it didn't--and I don't think that's how it's used.

Those are the schools where Wachtell holds OCI slots. They will invite top candidates from lower T14 schools to interview.

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
lawlorbust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I knew several folks at lower T14 with 3.8+ who didn't get Wachtell offers. The ones who do generally have some sort of X factor besides grades such as relevant work experience, elite undergrad, academic publication etc.

I think it's hard for an average Joe from BigStateU to get a Wachtell offer, even with kickass grades. My screener asked me what I did my honors thesis on and looked at me askance when I told him I didn't do one. It's entirely possible I just blew the interview, but many LR folks I know had similar experiences with Wachtell.


Doesn't WLRK only do OCI at half the T-14?


Yep - per their site:

University of Pennsylvania Law School
Columbia Law School
Yale Law School
Harvard Law School
NYU Law School
Stanford Law School
University of Chicago Law School

I'm guessing "lower T14" means CCNP


No it didn't--and I don't think that's how it's used.

Those are the schools where Wachtell holds OCI slots. They will invite top candidates from lower T14 schools to interview.


Uh i'm anon from before and that's exactly what I meant. I forgot people on this site insist on many delineations within the T14, such that CCNP could never be part of the plebeian "lower T14". I'll make sure to be more careful in the future.

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:28 pm

Hard to say what makes wachtell tick. I had close to a 3.9 at CLS and also top 5 undergrad with a real major and didn't get a callback (but did get callbacks at more selective firms).

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby dabigchina » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Uh i'm anon from before and that's exactly what I meant. I forgot people on this site insist on many delineations within the T14, such that CCNP could never be part of the plebeian "lower T14". I'll make sure to be more careful in the future.



Yes, how dare you lump CCN with those peasants from MVP. We don't pay way too much for rent and tuition to be subjected to such indignities.

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby PeanutsNJam » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hard to say what makes wachtell tick. I had close to a 3.9 at CLS and also top 5 undergrad with a real major and didn't get a callback (but did get callbacks at more selective firms).


Are Susman and Keker really "more selective"? The only firms more selective that I can think of are lit boutiques like the aforementioned, and they respond well to Law Review/clerkships, whereas I suppose those things don't pull as much weight with the big W.

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Re: AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:11 am

Dear OP,

How many business cards does it take to soften the blow of thinking that you busted your ass at CLS to nab Kent so you could have the privilege of billing 2300 hours only to make the same as the Paul Hastings 1950 dudes who coasted to median at Cornell?

Sincerely,
Eager Beaver



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