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Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:56 pm

*
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

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lymenheimer

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Re: C&F - unreported undergrad grades

Postby lymenheimer » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:31 pm

It was never reported, or you never reported it?

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rpupkin

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Re: C&F - unreported undergrad grades

Postby rpupkin » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:36 pm

The worst that can happen is that your law school expels you. But that's not likely. In any event, you should probably contact an attorney who specializes in C&F matters. It looks like you mis-reported/concealed your academic record; that's a major C&F problem.

ETA: I just want to clarify that you're not doomed. If, for example, you came forward yourself with the missing transcripts (i.e., you weren't caught by someone else), that would be a major mitigating factor. People overcome significant C&F issues all the time. But the point is that you need to take this seriously. I wouldn't wait to contact an attorney.
Last edited by rpupkin on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: C&F - unreported undergrad grades

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:44 pm

Problem is that even if you were boneheaded that chances of making such mistake are slim so you'll have the high burden of proving ur c&f... Contact an attorney

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Re: C&F - unreported undergrad grades

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:51 pm

OP here - I want to clarify that I am a 2L and haven't even begun applying to the bar or anything yet. I was not caught but have voluntarily come foreword.

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rpupkin

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Re: C&F - unreported undergrad grades

Postby rpupkin » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here - I want to clarify that I am a 2L and haven't even begun applying to the bar or anything yet. I was not caught but have voluntarily come foreword.

Understood. You should still contact a C&F attorney immediately.

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rcharter1978

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Re: C&F - unreported undergrad grades

Postby rcharter1978 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:58 pm

Yes, the worst that can happen is that your law school expels you. As someone above said, thats highly unlikely. You'll have to amend your application. If you haven't done so, go talk to your Dean of Students. If you're doing well its unlikely they will do anything more than submit the amended grades to your file.

I actually think the biggest problem would be with the scholarship, if you got the scholarship on the basis of not having Fs they may want to pull the scholarship. However if you've been able to maintain the grades to keep the scholarship, I guess you should be able to argue to keep it.

I'm not sure about your state, but I don't see why you would have a problem with your future C&F since you came forward and the school didn't have a problem with it. You'll have to be candid about the fact that you were subject to academic discipline.

I wouldn't think you would really need to contact an attorney until you have the discussion with the Dean of Students office.

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Re: C&F - unreported undergrad grades

Postby rpupkin » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:11 am

rcharter1978 wrote:Yes, the worst that can happen is that your law school expels you. As someone above said, thats highly unlikely. You'll have to amend your application. If you haven't done so, go talk to your Dean of Students. If you're doing well its unlikely they will do anything more than submit the amended grades to your file.

I'm not sure about your state, but I don't see why you would have a problem with your future C&F since you came forward and the school didn't have a problem with it.

Wait, how do you know that OP's school doesn't have a problem with the failure to disclose a year's worth of undergraduate grades? It seems that your advice--"there is no need for an attorney at his point"--is based on an important but unfounded assumption.

The reason the OP should contact a C&F attorney is that the attorney can advise him on what the C&F examiners in his state are going to care about. Also, the attorney can advise the OP what to say and not to say (and what to write and not to write) about this matter. No, the OP doesn't necessarily need to bring an attorney with him when meeting with the dean of students, but, if I were OP, I would at least want a C&F attorney's advice before proceeding.

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Re: C&F - unreported undergrad grades

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:17 am

OP here - I should note that I have already told the school that a portion of my grades were not reported. They just don't know the grades yet because I'm waiting on LSAC to update things.

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Re: C&F - unreported undergrad grades

Postby rpupkin » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here - I should note that I have already told the school that a portion of my grades were not reported. They just don't know the grades yet because I'm waiting on LSAC to update things.

Talk. To. An. Attorney. You're already doing stuff that could compound your problems. So you told the school that "a portion of my grades were not reported," without telling them about the contents of your missing transcript? So the school is going to find out you got a bunch of Fs when the LSAC report shows up?

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Re: C&F - unreported undergrad grades

Postby runinthefront » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:31 am

You absolutely need to talk to a C&F attorney in the jurisdiction you plan to sit for the bar in. This is a no-brainer; I can't believe there's even any pushback from rpupkin's post.

The "multiple Fs" will raise red flags, and you should talk to a C&F attorney regardless of what your school decides to do. You don't want to play with your career.
Last edited by runinthefront on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: C&F - unreported undergrad grades

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:37 am

Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll look up an attorney tomorrow

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rcharter1978

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Re: C&F - unreported undergrad grades

Postby rcharter1978 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:04 am

rpupkin wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:Yes, the worst that can happen is that your law school expels you. As someone above said, thats highly unlikely. You'll have to amend your application. If you haven't done so, go talk to your Dean of Students. If you're doing well its unlikely they will do anything more than submit the amended grades to your file.

I'm not sure about your state, but I don't see why you would have a problem with your future C&F since you came forward and the school didn't have a problem with it.

Wait, how do you know that OP's school doesn't have a problem with the failure to disclose a year's worth of undergraduate grades? It seems that your advice--"there is no need for an attorney at his point"--is based on an important but unfounded assumption.

The reason the OP should contact a C&F attorney is that the attorney can advise him on what the C&F examiners in his state are going to care about. Also, the attorney can advise the OP what to say and not to say (and what to write and not to write) about this matter. No, the OP doesn't necessarily need to bring an attorney with him when meeting with the dean of students, but, if I were OP, I would at least want a C&F attorney's advice before proceeding.


OP wont know until they have the discussion with DOS if the school will take issue with the disclosure. In the event that the school does not take issue with the disclosure, than it is unlikely that the C&F committee will.

From my understanding the C&F committee is looking for discrepancies between your law school application and your C&F application. If there is no real discrepancy, the C&F examiner may not have any problem whatsoever. And if OP submits the amendment, and the school accepts it, there essentially is no difference between the law school application and the C&F application. And therefore, no real discrepancy. Essentially, from what I understand, they want to know that you weren't purposefully covering stuff up to get into law school...but if the law school accepts the amendment and doesn't take any action against you, it starts to look like the F's wouldn't have mattered much or else they would kick you out. And that the reason that you didn't disclose was also good enough for the school to not think you were trying to hide anything from them.


As for a conversation with the DOS, its going to be what its going to be. I think the conversation with the DOS should happen first, and then OP should decide from there if he needs to contact an attorney. I'm sure OP has a good explanation as to why the he is disclosing now, whether he simply forgot about some crappy grades he got at a JC a million years ago, and a million years before he went to his graduating institution, whether it was a simple oversight in filling out the application, etc, etc.

But I suppose a C&F attorney could advise on what a good enough reason is? Although the reason is the reason, so I don't know. However it may just put OP's mind at ease to talk to the C&F attorney. And that alone may be worth the initial call, especially if it can somehow help to save OP's scholarship.

E: The more I think about it, I think the scholarship is going to be the biggest hurdle to jump...and in that respect I could understand getting a C&F attorney. Because, if its just a matter of whether or not you purposefully misled to gain acceptance...that can be somewhat cleared up by the fact that the school isn't kicking you out. However, I could see the school yanking the scholarship....in which case, it does look like OP purposefully hid the F's to get scholarship money, which would be a pretty big issue.

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Re: .

Postby lymenheimer » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:56 am

Rcharter: "if the police are fine with you killing your best friend, then they're fine with it. You don't need to get an attorney until after you've spoken with the police and told them what happened."

:roll:

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Re: .

Postby rcharter1978 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:22 am

lymenheimer wrote:Rcharter: "if the police are fine with you killing your best friend, then they're fine with it. You don't need to get an attorney until after you've spoken with the police and told them what happened."

:roll:


Well, if the police have a history of being cool with bfficide than you may not need the attorney.

The grade situation happened, and its going to be resolved. The question right now is what the school is going to do about it. That is probably going to be dependent on the explanation. There are pretty much two roads the explanation can go down: 1) mistake or 2) not mistake

Answer 1 probably won't get OP kicked out, though he may lose his scholarship because his grades were probably a consideration. Once you're in, and you're doing well, and it looks like you're probably going to pass the bar, I don't think a school is motivated to expel a student for a mistake. Bar stats and employment figures are going to be the only set of numbers the school is going to care about after a student is admitted.

So, unless you're going to go into the DOS office and tell them that you purposefully hid your grades, they don't have much incentive to expel you. They will accept killing your best friend, as long as it was a mistake.

OP has to disclose to the DOS and explain why it happened. And there are only two versions of the story, one of which is better. I don't see why an attorney needs to tell you that. If it was an mistake, go to the DOS and feel them out about it. I don't know if an attorney can come up with a third explanation. If OP gets pushback on saying it was a mistake, than yeah..but I don't see how an attorney before the conversation is going to come up with something other than mistake. No matter who you consult, the story to the DOS office can still only be mistake or not mistake.

HOWEVER, this isn't just a matter of staying in school....the bigger issue, to me, is the scholarship. If the school doesn't expel OP and simply files the revised grades and puts a note in the file, then there is no difference between the law school app and the C&F. And arguably, the F's wouldn't have had an impact on his admission since the school didn't kick him out. But, I think the scholarship is different in that if the school does pull the scholarship and it was based on undergraduate grades then it will show that the F's would have had an adverse impact on OP's scholarship money had he reported them. And then it looks a lot less like harmless error.

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Re: .

Postby lymenheimer » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:54 am

rcharter1978 wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:Rcharter: "if the police are fine with you killing your best friend, then they're fine with it. You don't need to get an attorney until after you've spoken with the police and told them what happened."

:roll:


Well, if the police have a history of being cool with bfficide than you may not need the attorney.

The grade situation happened, and its going to be resolved. The question right now is what the school is going to do about it. That is probably going to be dependent on the explanation. There are pretty much two roads the explanation can go down: 1) mistake or 2) not mistake

Answer 1 probably won't get OP kicked out, though he may lose his scholarship because his grades were probably a consideration. Once you're in, and you're doing well, and it looks like you're probably going to pass the bar, I don't think a school is motivated to expel a student for a mistake. Bar stats and employment figures are going to be the only set of numbers the school is going to care about after a student is admitted.

So, unless you're going to go into the DOS office and tell them that you purposefully hid your grades, they don't have much incentive to expel you. They will accept killing your best friend, as long as it was a mistake.

OP has to disclose to the DOS and explain why it happened. And there are only two versions of the story, one of which is better. I don't see why an attorney needs to tell you that. If it was an mistake, go to the DOS and feel them out about it. I don't know if an attorney can come up with a third explanation. If OP gets pushback on saying it was a mistake, than yeah..but I don't see how an attorney before the conversation is going to come up with something other than mistake. No matter who you consult, the story to the DOS office can still only be mistake or not mistake.

HOWEVER, this isn't just a matter of staying in school....the bigger issue, to me, is the scholarship. If the school doesn't expel OP and simply files the revised grades and puts a note in the file, then there is no difference between the law school app and the C&F. And arguably, the F's wouldn't have had an impact on his admission since the school didn't kick him out. But, I think the scholarship is different in that if the school does pull the scholarship and it was based on undergraduate grades then it will show that the F's would have had an adverse impact on OP's scholarship money had he reported them. And then it looks a lot less like harmless error.


qfp.



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