1L SA do grades still matter

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1L SA do grades still matter

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Was lucky enough to land a SA as a 1L. I'm at t14 with a 3.6 and it is a V10 firm. Wanted to know how much my grades matter at this point if I can produce a good work product on the job? Also if my grades were to drop a little bit at i at risk of a no offer?

RaceJudicata

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby RaceJudicata » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:30 pm

In reality, probably not. But you have completed one semester of law school. If you let your grades go to shit, you are effectively hitching your wagon to this firm. Why not do well and leave the door open for 2L OCI, clerk ships, lateral opportunities, etc.

Ignoring grades because you have a 1L SA and one semester of grades seems incredibly short sighted.

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby Npret » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Was lucky enough to land a SA as a 1L. I'm at t14 with a 3.6 and it is a V10 firm. Wanted to know how much my grades matter at this point if I can produce a good work product on the job? Also if my grades were to drop a little bit at i at risk of a no offer?


What is a little bit? Why don't you care about getting good grades?

You can't assume that your work product will save you as you have done no work.

You have a 1L SA. You do not have a job.

If this firm doesn't work out for whatever reason, you will need credentials to find another job.

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:34 pm

If you like life at a V10, it should make you want to work harder & smarter to preserve that option; alternatively, if you don't care for life at a V10, then that should motivate you to do better in law school in order to create more options.

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:35 pm

OP, I've been struggling with the same questions.

T6, got a 1L SA offer from a V10 firm and wondering to what extent I have to maintain my grades to get an offer to return as a 2L SA.

For those suggesting we keep working hard, well yes that's obvious. I think what we're asking is how strict/demanding are these V10 firms about seeing similar grades for the latter half of 1L.

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby Npret » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP, I've been struggling with the same questions.

T6, got a 1L SA offer from a V10 firm and wondering to what extent I have to maintain my grades to get an offer to return as a 2L SA.

For those suggesting we keep working hard, well yes that's obvious. I think what we're asking is how strict/demanding are these V10 firms about seeing similar grades for the latter half of 1L.


I don't understand the question. Is it anxiety related that you will lose your chance at a job if you don't keep the same grades?

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby RaceJudicata » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:31 pm

Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP, I've been struggling with the same questions.

T6, got a 1L SA offer from a V10 firm and wondering to what extent I have to maintain my grades to get an offer to return as a 2L SA.

For those suggesting we keep working hard, well yes that's obvious. I think what we're asking is how strict/demanding are these V10 firms about seeing similar grades for the latter half of 1L.


I don't understand the question. Is it anxiety related that you will lose your chance at a job if you don't keep the same grades?


My reading of OP was that s/he wanted to slack off and just stick with V!0, but second Anon i get the feeling is just nervous that s/he will fuck up. The answer to both is: Do your best - you likely will not do poorly enough to lose your position. That said, the incentives are all there to maintain/improve your grades to keep all doors open.

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby UVA2B » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP, I've been struggling with the same questions.

T6, got a 1L SA offer from a V10 firm and wondering to what extent I have to maintain my grades to get an offer to return as a 2L SA.

For those suggesting we keep working hard, well yes that's obvious. I think what we're asking is how strict/demanding are these V10 firms about seeing similar grades for the latter half of 1L.


I could be off on this, but even if you don't get an offer for the V10 you're at, are you foreclosing prime employment by a slightly less impressive GPA? 1L SA is rarely guaranteed 2L SA, much less post graduate employment, so what's your question? You're above average at a T6, and you'll do OCI for Vwhatever firms in most of the major markets. If you nailed interviews enough to get a 1L SA, you'll be ready for nailing 2L SA, which will much more reliably lead to employment.

Don't read into these things more than they deserve.

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:59 pm

Also, you might not actually like this firm, and want to explore other options.

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:08 am

UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP, I've been struggling with the same questions.

T6, got a 1L SA offer from a V10 firm and wondering to what extent I have to maintain my grades to get an offer to return as a 2L SA.

For those suggesting we keep working hard, well yes that's obvious. I think what we're asking is how strict/demanding are these V10 firms about seeing similar grades for the latter half of 1L.


I could be off on this, but even if you don't get an offer for the V10 you're at, are you foreclosing prime employment by a slightly less impressive GPA? 1L SA is rarely guaranteed 2L SA, much less post graduate employment, so what's your question? You're above average at a T6, and you'll do OCI for Vwhatever firms in most of the major markets. If you nailed interviews enough to get a 1L SA, you'll be ready for nailing 2L SA, which will much more reliably lead to employment.

Don't read into these things more than they deserve.


Is the bolded true? 2Ls and 3Ls at my school told me you're pretty much set/done if you get 1L SA. Or maybe it depends on the firm?

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby UVA2B » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP, I've been struggling with the same questions.

T6, got a 1L SA offer from a V10 firm and wondering to what extent I have to maintain my grades to get an offer to return as a 2L SA.

For those suggesting we keep working hard, well yes that's obvious. I think what we're asking is how strict/demanding are these V10 firms about seeing similar grades for the latter half of 1L.


I could be off on this, but even if you don't get an offer for the V10 you're at, are you foreclosing prime employment by a slightly less impressive GPA? 1L SA is rarely guaranteed 2L SA, much less post graduate employment, so what's your question? You're above average at a T6, and you'll do OCI for Vwhatever firms in most of the major markets. If you nailed interviews enough to get a 1L SA, you'll be ready for nailing 2L SA, which will much more reliably lead to employment.

Don't read into these things more than they deserve.


Is the bolded true? 2Ls and 3Ls at my school told me you're pretty much set/done if you get 1L SA. Or maybe it depends on the firm?


I won't speak for specific firms (I'm a 1L not speaking from experience), but everything I've understood to this point is 1L SA is basically a bonus for high achieving 1Ls. They aren't strictly looking for long term employees. They would prefer 1L SA=>2L SA=>junior associate, but they don't count on it. More often they want to leave a positive impression on candidates they'll want for 2L SA. In the end, summer associate is a recruiting tool firms use for people they hope to hire because they carry the requisite pedigree for billing.

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:07 am

UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP, I've been struggling with the same questions.

T6, got a 1L SA offer from a V10 firm and wondering to what extent I have to maintain my grades to get an offer to return as a 2L SA.

For those suggesting we keep working hard, well yes that's obvious. I think what we're asking is how strict/demanding are these V10 firms about seeing similar grades for the latter half of 1L.


I could be off on this, but even if you don't get an offer for the V10 you're at, are you foreclosing prime employment by a slightly less impressive GPA? 1L SA is rarely guaranteed 2L SA, much less post graduate employment, so what's your question? You're above average at a T6, and you'll do OCI for Vwhatever firms in most of the major markets. If you nailed interviews enough to get a 1L SA, you'll be ready for nailing 2L SA, which will much more reliably lead to employment.

Don't read into these things more than they deserve.


Is the bolded true? 2Ls and 3Ls at my school told me you're pretty much set/done if you get 1L SA. Or maybe it depends on the firm?


I won't speak for specific firms (I'm a 1L not speaking from experience), but everything I've understood to this point is 1L SA is basically a bonus for high achieving 1Ls. They aren't strictly looking for long term employees. They would prefer 1L SA=>2L SA=>junior associate, but they don't count on it. More often they want to leave a positive impression on candidates they'll want for 2L SA. In the end, summer associate is a recruiting tool firms use for people they hope to hire because they carry the requisite pedigree for billing.


Definitely seems to depend on the firm; I recall a 1L callback where they specifically told me they hire 1Ls with the intent to make them partners. Mere puffery? Probably. Insight nonetheless.

But anyways, I don't think it's a good idea to get complacent so early in your legal career; at the end of the day you may find the path you're now on slowly disintegrating for whatever reason and in that case you'll be kicking yourself for letting your grades slip. Why take the chance, ya know?

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby Npret » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP, I've been struggling with the same questions.

T6, got a 1L SA offer from a V10 firm and wondering to what extent I have to maintain my grades to get an offer to return as a 2L SA.

For those suggesting we keep working hard, well yes that's obvious. I think what we're asking is how strict/demanding are these V10 firms about seeing similar grades for the latter half of 1L.


I could be off on this, but even if you don't get an offer for the V10 you're at, are you foreclosing prime employment by a slightly less impressive GPA? 1L SA is rarely guaranteed 2L SA, much less post graduate employment, so what's your question? You're above average at a T6, and you'll do OCI for Vwhatever firms in most of the major markets. If you nailed interviews enough to get a 1L SA, you'll be ready for nailing 2L SA, which will much more reliably lead to employment.

Don't read into these things more than they deserve.


Is the bolded true? 2Ls and 3Ls at my school told me you're pretty much set/done if you get 1L SA. Or maybe it depends on the firm?


People can be no offered. It happens. Grades are an easy excuse to no offer someone for whatever actual issue: fit, work product, financials of the firm or practice group.

Don't assume a job you don't have. A summer job is still an interview process. Agree with maintaining grades to keep your career options open. Consider that a person wanting to do the "minimum" ( not saying anon is asking that exactly) may be a terrible fit for big law and may want to have credentials for other options.

You can check on the number of 1Ls given offers on NALP. I recall Southern firms in particular not hiring all 1Ls.

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UVA2B

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Re: 1L SA do grades still matter

Postby UVA2B » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP, I've been struggling with the same questions.

T6, got a 1L SA offer from a V10 firm and wondering to what extent I have to maintain my grades to get an offer to return as a 2L SA.

For those suggesting we keep working hard, well yes that's obvious. I think what we're asking is how strict/demanding are these V10 firms about seeing similar grades for the latter half of 1L.


I could be off on this, but even if you don't get an offer for the V10 you're at, are you foreclosing prime employment by a slightly less impressive GPA? 1L SA is rarely guaranteed 2L SA, much less post graduate employment, so what's your question? You're above average at a T6, and you'll do OCI for Vwhatever firms in most of the major markets. If you nailed interviews enough to get a 1L SA, you'll be ready for nailing 2L SA, which will much more reliably lead to employment.

Don't read into these things more than they deserve.


Is the bolded true? 2Ls and 3Ls at my school told me you're pretty much set/done if you get 1L SA. Or maybe it depends on the firm?


I won't speak for specific firms (I'm a 1L not speaking from experience), but everything I've understood to this point is 1L SA is basically a bonus for high achieving 1Ls. They aren't strictly looking for long term employees. They would prefer 1L SA=>2L SA=>junior associate, but they don't count on it. More often they want to leave a positive impression on candidates they'll want for 2L SA. In the end, summer associate is a recruiting tool firms use for people they hope to hire because they carry the requisite pedigree for billing.


Definitely seems to depend on the firm; I recall a 1L callback where they specifically told me they hire 1Ls with the intent to make them partners. Mere puffery? Probably. Insight nonetheless.

But anyways, I don't think it's a good idea to get complacent so early in your legal career; at the end of the day you may find the path you're now on slowly disintegrating for whatever reason and in that case you'll be kicking yourself for letting your grades slip. Why take the chance, ya know?


Absolutely, I never meant to imply it's the time to slack off. A 1L who was fortunate enough to land a SA gig isn't "out of the woods" and can simply cruise. I was working under the assumption that someone who did well first semester will continue working the way they did, hopefully leading to continued success. But it's also important for 1Ls in general to check their neuroses at the door when it comes to the 1L SA because it's not at all dispositive of getting/losing a job. What that 1L should be concerned with is getting good experience, working hard and remaining enthusiastic, and letting the chips fall where they may. If the firm really likes you and values your contribution, they'll give you an offer for 2L SA. If they decide to no offer you for whatever reason, you're still in a great position to land a 2L SA because you have substantive experience at a firm to talk about when OCI rolls around. I doubt many (any?) firms at OCI would see a 1L SA and question why you weren't given an offer at your 1L firm. They'd more likely assume you got an offer, but you're still exploring the waters elsewhere.

1L SA you love=>2L SA=>post grad employment sounds ideal because it means you really lucked out in fit/culture, but while it's not time to get complacent, it's also not time to let your nerves get the best of you and think that a slight grade drop will kill your future employment. Because I doubt going from 3.5-3.4 at a T6 (for example) will make an employer who otherwise really liked you and your work product think, "welp, that's it for Susie. They're done here if they can't stay ahead of their peers." It might happen, but it'd be foolish to assume that'll be the case.



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