Consultant taking questions

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:18 pm

Hi thanks for doing this.

I have two questions:

1.It seems like MBB recruiters are prestige snobs as much (if not worse) than Biglaw. I'm at a pretty good practice group but the firm does not carry the brand such as the V10 NY firms, but I would have a fair chance at lateraling into those firms if I wanted to. Would making that transition improve my chances with MBB? On a different note, would passing CFA level 1 exam help my chances?

2.What would be the best way to find out whether I would enjoy the work of consultants at MBB? Would preparation process for the case interviews be indicative?

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Green:

To your second: the answer is no, it's more holistic. This is good for JDs because they set the bar lower on case interviews than with MBAs. If it were blind, JDs wouldn't get jobs in consulting. We collectively suck at case interviews.


Thanksa lot for your time on this. To your above answer, I've actually just talked to another consultant and got the opposite response (for all M/B/B). I'm putting more weight on your answer though since I don't think those consultants were familiar with JD recruiting. But would you think that your answer holds the same if I am applying as an experienced lawyer, not straight for law school? While it is a nice gesture, I can't see why they would set the bar lower for ex-lawyers assuming that they believe the interview performance is the key indication of the candidate's potential.

Also, I'm currently at a V100 firm, probably a firm that MBB is not too familiar with. The practice group however is stellar (and I joined here knowing that I would get much accelerated experience than I would at top firms like v10; but I wouldn't expect MBB to know or care about this) and it would fairly be easy to lateral into a v10 firm if I wanted to. Solely to maximize my chances to get hired at MBB (otherwise I'm quite happy at where I'm at), would it make sense to lateral? I'm trying to compare the benefit going to a better firm for 4-5 months vs cost of dealing with "why lateral in the first place if you were going to leave in 4-5 months" questions from both the law firm and during my interview at MBB.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby curepure » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Green:

To your second: the answer is no, it's more holistic. This is good for JDs because they set the bar lower on case interviews than with MBAs. If it were blind, JDs wouldn't get jobs in consulting. We collectively suck at case interviews.


Thanksa lot for your time on this. To your above answer, I've actually just talked to another consultant and got the opposite response (for all M/B/B). I'm putting more weight on your answer though since I don't think those consultants were familiar with JD recruiting. But would you think that your answer holds the same if I am applying as an experienced lawyer, not straight for law school? While it is a nice gesture, I can't see why they would set the bar lower for ex-lawyers assuming that they believe the interview performance is the key indication of the candidate's potential.

Also, I'm currently at a V100 firm, probably a firm that MBB is not too familiar with. The practice group however is stellar (and I joined here knowing that I would get much accelerated experience than I would at top firms like v10; but I wouldn't expect MBB to know or care about this) and it would fairly be easy to lateral into a v10 firm if I wanted to. Solely to maximize my chances to get hired at MBB (otherwise I'm quite happy at where I'm at), would it make sense to lateral? I'm trying to compare the benefit going to a better firm for 4-5 months vs cost of dealing with "why lateral in the first place if you were going to leave in 4-5 months" questions from both the law firm and during my interview at MBB.


Dude, network to get an interview and ace the cases.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:33 pm

do any mbb consultants have knowledge as to their firm's hiring and start date logistics?

I'm currently in first year of biglaw and trying to plan an exit timeline. I realize that I am getting ahead of myself in terms of actually getting an mbb offer, but I think it'd be helpful to know: (a) how long you can push back a start date for? and (b) what start dates are typically available to hires?

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:27 am

Green

Anonymous User wrote:Hi thanks for doing this.

I have two questions:

1.It seems like MBB recruiters are prestige snobs as much (if not worse) than Biglaw. I'm at a pretty good practice group but the firm does not carry the brand such as the V10 NY firms, but I would have a fair chance at lateraling into those firms if I wanted to. Would making that transition improve my chances with MBB? On a different note, would passing CFA level 1 exam help my chances?

2.What would be the best way to find out whether I would enjoy the work of consultants at MBB? Would preparation process for the case interviews be indicative?

1. Possibly. If I were you I'd first try applying from where you are. The is an understanding that there are simply more top law firms than top consulting firms. Consider that the consultant headcount of any one of the MBB is comparable to the headcount of lawyers at all of the V10 combined, so even if consultants are prestige snobs they're not necessarily going to differentiate between the V10 and the V20 and so on in the same way lawyers will. Re CFA: I don't know the answer to that.

2. That's a good start, yes. I would also think about how you value and perceive two big things:
First, do you prefer a constant level of stress and work, or would you prefer bursts of high stress high workload? Consulting is more like the latter: 15 hour focused days MTW, then you drop everything on weekends and when your case rolls off you can go play golf until you're on a new case. Relatedly, you're only on one case at a time as a consultant, so your workload is managed by one person instead of several partners as at law firms.

Second, what type of work product excites you? If polishing a 50-page brief or perfecting the language and grammar of a lengthy contract and having your name on a written end product is inherently interesting to you, consulting is probably not for you. I'm not even totally sure that Microsoft Word is correctly installed on my computer, and if I can't communicate something in one Powerpoint slide my boss will seriously ask whether it's something we really need to be communicating. The mantra here is usually "iterate early and often" and "80/20," which literally means you're expected to expend only 20% of the effort that you could expend on writing/editing something before passing off the first full draft.

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Green:

To your second: the answer is no, it's more holistic. This is good for JDs because they set the bar lower on case interviews than with MBAs. If it were blind, JDs wouldn't get jobs in consulting. We collectively suck at case interviews.


Thanksa lot for your time on this. To your above answer, I've actually just talked to another consultant and got the opposite response (for all M/B/B). I'm putting more weight on your answer though since I don't think those consultants were familiar with JD recruiting. But would you think that your answer holds the same if I am applying as an experienced lawyer, not straight for law school? While it is a nice gesture, I can't see why they would set the bar lower for ex-lawyers assuming that they believe the interview performance is the key indication of the candidate's potential.

Also, I'm currently at a V100 firm, probably a firm that MBB is not too familiar with. The practice group however is stellar (and I joined here knowing that I would get much accelerated experience than I would at top firms like v10; but I wouldn't expect MBB to know or care about this) and it would fairly be easy to lateral into a v10 firm if I wanted to. Solely to maximize my chances to get hired at MBB (otherwise I'm quite happy at where I'm at), would it make sense to lateral? I'm trying to compare the benefit going to a better firm for 4-5 months vs cost of dealing with "why lateral in the first place if you were going to leave in 4-5 months" questions from both the law firm and during my interview at MBB.

At least at BCG, the case interview process for JDs definitely takes into account the fact that you're a JD and not an MBA.

As to your second paragraph, I would agree with the poster above. Apply to consulting now instead of trying to lateral to maximize your chances.

Anonymous User wrote:do any mbb consultants have knowledge as to their firm's hiring and start date logistics?

I'm currently in first year of biglaw and trying to plan an exit timeline. I realize that I am getting ahead of myself in terms of actually getting an mbb offer, but I think it'd be helpful to know: (a) how long you can push back a start date for? and (b) what start dates are typically available to hires?

This is hard to answer because a lot of logistics that I experienced are in place specifically to deal with fresh graduates. It's not odd to be hired for a start date a year out, but it's totally plausible that they fill short term gaps with industry/experienced hires with less notice and I've just never been exposed to that process. There are typically monthly start dates available, but for fresh JDs at BCG you may only get to choose between August and January.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:38 pm

Thanks for the responses. Super helpful!!

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:09 pm

What is the latest one could lateral into consulting or try to lateral and have a realistic shot?

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:46 pm

Thanks a lot OP and Green. This is incredibly helpful.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Green:

To your second: the answer is no, it's more holistic. This is good for JDs because they set the bar lower on case interviews than with MBAs. If it were blind, JDs wouldn't get jobs in consulting. We collectively suck at case interviews.


Thanksa lot for your time on this. To your above answer, I've actually just talked to another consultant and got the opposite response (for all M/B/B). I'm putting more weight on your answer though since I don't think those consultants were familiar with JD recruiting. But would you think that your answer holds the same if I am applying as an experienced lawyer, not straight for law school? While it is a nice gesture, I can't see why they would set the bar lower for ex-lawyers assuming that they believe the interview performance is the key indication of the candidate's potential.

Also, I'm currently at a V100 firm, probably a firm that MBB is not too familiar with. The practice group however is stellar (and I joined here knowing that I would get much accelerated experience than I would at top firms like v10; but I wouldn't expect MBB to know or care about this) and it would fairly be easy to lateral into a v10 firm if I wanted to. Solely to maximize my chances to get hired at MBB (otherwise I'm quite happy at where I'm at), would it make sense to lateral? I'm trying to compare the benefit going to a better firm for 4-5 months vs cost of dealing with "why lateral in the first place if you were going to leave in 4-5 months" questions from both the law firm and during my interview at MBB.


OP weighing in. I think Green's responses have been on the dot, but I disagree with him/her as well on the JD case study point. My firm does not lower the bar a bit whether you're an MBA/PHD/JD/MD/experienced hire, and you should practice cases with that in mind. They have no incentive to do so. The case interview process is learnable no matter what background you come from, it can be difficult but it is not rocket science, so if you're smart and put in the work you have a shot.

No, it doesn't make sense ot lateral for the sole purpose of getting into MBB. I don't think any consultant at MBB can name the V10, and aside from a couple of more household names like Skadden and Cravath probably can't name the V5. Those distinctions don't really matter as long as you have the pedigree (school/grades) and are at a large reputable firm. Also, for the simple reason that getting MBB is a long shot in the first place, I wouldn't base entire career moves off that long shot.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:46 pm

Hi OP and Green, M&A junior associate here just got invited to a second round at an MBB, heard there's going to be a written case. How do I prepare for that? Seems there's no casebooks/materials for me to practice at all.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi OP and Green, M&A junior associate here just got invited to a second round at an MBB, heard there's going to be a written case. How do I prepare for that? Seems there's no casebooks/materials for me to practice at all.


I can speak a bit to this (I'll assume it's for BCG). The idea is that you get a stack of exhibits; there'll be a broad prompt. You'll have some time to work out a "solution" with the information that you're given -- not all of which will be relevant -- in the form of a "deck" and a client presentation. The skills tested overlap somewhat, e.g., some math, problem diagnosis and solving. But more emphasis on you driving the process; interviewer's role is less to move the process along and reveal information (as in the normal case), and more to poke holes at and challenge your prepared presentation.

BCG written case is new but not super new, so I'd check other consulting-focused internet sources to see if there's discussion elsewhere too. Happy to talk more if you drop a userid I can PM.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby curepure » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi OP and Green, M&A junior associate here just got invited to a second round at an MBB, heard there's going to be a written case. How do I prepare for that? Seems there's no casebooks/materials for me to practice at all.


I can speak a bit to this (I'll assume it's for BCG). The idea is that you get a stack of exhibits; there'll be a broad prompt. You'll have some time to work out a "solution" with the information that you're given -- not all of which will be relevant -- in the form of a "deck" and a client presentation. The skills tested overlap somewhat, e.g., some math, problem diagnosis and solving. But more emphasis on you driving the process; interviewer's role is less to move the process along and reveal information (as in the normal case), and more to poke holes at and challenge your prepared presentation.

BCG written case is new but not super new, so I'd check other consulting-focused internet sources to see if there's discussion elsewhere too. Happy to talk more if you drop a userid I can PM.


Can you please PM me. Thanks!

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby elterrible78 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:48 am

Thanks to everyone answering questions in this thread. Could OP, Green, or anyone else who actually works/has worked at one of MBB PM me? Thanks in advance.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby mino » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:46 pm

This is super helpful! Thanks all for contributing. I'm a JD heading to MBB in the fall. I'm wondering if you could speak to whether exit opportunities are different for JD's than others at MBB. Do you see it as disadvantaging you versus MBAs going for similar positions post-MBB?

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:55 pm

Random question but I'm just super curious...

Why would anybody put themselves through law school and then go to consulting?? Seems like a bizarre path to consulting, when you can do it straight up out of college. Why kill yourself in law school and then do consulting? I don't understand...

Being a lawyer is probably more boring (if you do corporate) yes, but definitely a sexier line to drop than "I'm a consultant". Idk it's just crazy to me why anybody would want to be a consultant when you already went to law school and could be a lawyer

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Random question but I'm just super curious...

Why would anybody put themselves through law school and then go to consulting?? Seems like a bizarre path to consulting, when you can do it straight up out of college. Why kill yourself in law school and then do consulting? I don't understand...

Being a lawyer is probably more boring (if you do corporate) yes, but definitely a sexier line to drop than "I'm a consultant". Idk it's just crazy to me why anybody would want to be a consultant when you already went to law school and could be a lawyer


Because some people don't truly understand how soul-crushing it is to do mind-numbingly boring work day after day for more than the length of a summer program until they've actually had to do it. Just my guess.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Random question but I'm just super curious...

Why would anybody put themselves through law school and then go to consulting?? Seems like a bizarre path to consulting, when you can do it straight up out of college. Why kill yourself in law school and then do consulting? I don't understand...

Being a lawyer is probably more boring (if you do corporate) yes, but definitely a sexier line to drop than "I'm a consultant". Idk it's just crazy to me why anybody would want to be a consultant when you already went to law school and could be a lawyer


Because some people don't truly understand how soul-crushing it is to do mind-numbingly boring work day after day for more than the length of a summer program until they've actually had to do it. Just my guess.


ya but consultants aren't exactly rockstars either. They pretty much do mind-numbing bs research that a high schooler could do and then make powerpoints.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Random question but I'm just super curious...

Why would anybody put themselves through law school and then go to consulting?? Seems like a bizarre path to consulting, when you can do it straight up out of college. Why kill yourself in law school and then do consulting? I don't understand...

Being a lawyer is probably more boring (if you do corporate) yes, but definitely a sexier line to drop than "I'm a consultant". Idk it's just crazy to me why anybody would want to be a consultant when you already went to law school and could be a lawyer


You are looking at it from a wrong starting point. I don't think many go to law school to become consultants. Most attend law school to become lawyers. It is more likely that during law school (especially after spending a summer at a law firm), as the above anon noted, people realize how awful/boring practice of law can be at a law firm with poor exit options. Then you look around and see that some of your friends are leaving law to become consultants and you become interested. And the idea that being a lawyer is sexier... is just silly... are you really going to choose a profession based on its sex appeal?...

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Random question but I'm just super curious...

Why would anybody put themselves through law school and then go to consulting?? Seems like a bizarre path to consulting, when you can do it straight up out of college. Why kill yourself in law school and then do consulting? I don't understand...

Being a lawyer is probably more boring (if you do corporate) yes, but definitely a sexier line to drop than "I'm a consultant". Idk it's just crazy to me why anybody would want to be a consultant when you already went to law school and could be a lawyer


Because some people don't truly understand how soul-crushing it is to do mind-numbingly boring work day after day for more than the length of a summer program until they've actually had to do it. Just my guess.


ya but consultants aren't exactly rockstars either. They pretty much do mind-numbing bs research that a high schooler could do and then make powerpoints.


All I know is that my classmates who went into consulting are substantially happier with their work than those of us in biglaw.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote: You are looking at it from a wrong starting point. I don't think many go to law school to become consultants. Most attend law school to become lawyers. It is more likely that during law school (especially after spending a summer at a law firm), as the above anon noted, people realize how awful/boring practice of law can be at a law firm with poor exit options. Then you look around and see that some of your friends are leaving law to become consultants and you become interested. And the idea that being a lawyer is sexier... is just silly... are you really going to choose a profession based on its sex appeal?...


3L going to MBB. Seconding this.

I had no intentions of being a consultant when I came to law school as I intended to become a litigator. But after seeing what the legal practice is like at a firm and coming to realize that my interests were more closely aligned with corporate work, I also realized that I would rather just deal with the business issues directly as a consultant than waste my time hoping to get transferable business experience while doing deals, etc. as a corp attorney. This would then mean my exit ops would be more diversified, and I would not hate my life for the next few years in Big Law.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Random question but I'm just super curious...

Why would anybody put themselves through law school and then go to consulting?? Seems like a bizarre path to consulting, when you can do it straight up out of college. Why kill yourself in law school and then do consulting? I don't understand...

Being a lawyer is probably more boring (if you do corporate) yes, but definitely a sexier line to drop than "I'm a consultant". Idk it's just crazy to me why anybody would want to be a consultant when you already went to law school and could be a lawyer


You are looking at it from a wrong starting point. I don't think many go to law school to become consultants. Most attend law school to become lawyers. It is more likely that during law school (especially after spending a summer at a law firm), as the above anon noted, people realize how awful/boring practice of law can be at a law firm with poor exit options. Then you look around and see that some of your friends are leaving law to become consultants and you become interested. And the idea that being a lawyer is sexier... is just silly... are you really going to choose a profession based on its sex appeal?...


Seconding this as well. 3L going to MBB. I came to law school because I thought I wanted to be a lawyer. After summers in the field I wanted to be in, I realized that I loved the idea of that type of work but absolutely hated the day to day and hated my life—even in my dream job. I'm much happier with my decision to go into consulting and frankly at the end of the day I think that's all that matters. :)

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby juzam_djinn » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Random question but I'm just super curious...

Why would anybody put themselves through law school and then go to consulting?? Seems like a bizarre path to consulting, when you can do it straight up out of college. Why kill yourself in law school and then do consulting? I don't understand...

Being a lawyer is probably more boring (if you do corporate) yes, but definitely a sexier line to drop than "I'm a consultant". Idk it's just crazy to me why anybody would want to be a consultant when you already went to law school and could be a lawyer


You are looking at it from a wrong starting point. I don't think many go to law school to become consultants. Most attend law school to become lawyers. It is more likely that during law school (especially after spending a summer at a law firm), as the above anon noted, people realize how awful/boring practice of law can be at a law firm with poor exit options. Then you look around and see that some of your friends are leaving law to become consultants and you become interested. And the idea that being a lawyer is sexier... is just silly... are you really going to choose a profession based on its sex appeal?...


Seconding this as well. 3L going to MBB. I came to law school because I thought I wanted to be a lawyer. After summers in the field I wanted to be in, I realized that I loved the idea of that type of work but absolutely hated the day to day and hated my life—even in my dream job. I'm much happier with my decision to go into consulting and frankly at the end of the day I think that's all that matters. :)


that's exactly it

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby ajr » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:37 pm

Why this forum has no problem with consultants adding a one-time sign-on bonus, maximum target bonus, 401k match without any discounting to total compensation? Then why not add bar stipend + relocation + clerkship bonus + client development budget + bonus considering 2400 billables in biglaw?

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:38 pm

Thanks a lot for doing this. Do you find that MBB actively recruits/favors military veterans? Wondering if military experience will make up for lack of business experience or other weaknesses in my resume (or at least get me in the door for a 1st interview). I attend a T14 whose OCI MBB does not attend.

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Re: Consultant taking questions

Postby juzam_djinn » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:24 am

ajr wrote:Why this forum has no problem with consultants adding a one-time sign-on bonus, maximum target bonus, 401k match without any discounting to total compensation? Then why not add bar stipend + relocation + clerkship bonus + client development budget + bonus considering 2400 billables in biglaw?


yeah if you read through my posts you'll see that I've explained this before in another thread. biglaw still makes slightly more than mbb for the first couple years (especially if you're at a firm that gives you a signing stipend rather than salary advance). although after that, the consultants that make it pass the first round of cuts make slightly more than their biglaw counterparts. at the partner level, biglaw again overtakes mbb in terms of comp

it's pretty silly to decide a career based on marginal differences in compensation though...



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