Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:01 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Once you get that credit card paid off, you can take the money you've put towards that and you'll be shocked how quickly you can save money for more worthwhile goals (vacation, house down payment, retirement, etc.).

She's open to just filing for bankruptcy so we're going to speak with a lawyer buddy of mine in a few days to see what happens there. She has no choice at this point than to face a really bad credit score whether by bankruptcy or we settle with the credit card companies. My credit score won't be affected she's going to have to live with the consequences of her actions and just eat it. I don't want to have to pay this back. Student loans are coming due next month


I don't know enough about bankruptcy to give you advice as to whether to file or not, but this seems short-sighted and a good way to make your financial life pretty damn difficult for the next 7-10 years rather than just sucking it up for 2-3 years and dealing with this.

As DZ said, it's her score not mine. My name isn't on any of the debt. We have a house that is jointly owned so creditors can't touch it and both cars are paid off. She knows her credit is going to have to be the price she pays for her stupidity and she has accepted it. Just seems like the most sensible route to go considering the enormity of the debt. And DZ, it's the stupidest thing ever. I'm going to give 3 guesses at it and I bet you won't get it.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby SmokeytheBear » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
AVBucks4239 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Once you get that credit card paid off, you can take the money you've put towards that and you'll be shocked how quickly you can save money for more worthwhile goals (vacation, house down payment, retirement, etc.).

She's open to just filing for bankruptcy so we're going to speak with a lawyer buddy of mine in a few days to see what happens there. She has no choice at this point than to face a really bad credit score whether by bankruptcy or we settle with the credit card companies. My credit score won't be affected she's going to have to live with the consequences of her actions and just eat it. I don't want to have to pay this back. Student loans are coming due next month


I don't know enough about bankruptcy to give you advice as to whether to file or not, but this seems short-sighted and a good way to make your financial life pretty damn difficult for the next 7-10 years rather than just sucking it up for 2-3 years and dealing with this.

As DZ said, it's her score not mine. My name isn't on any of the debt. We have a house that is jointly owned so creditors can't touch it and both cars are paid off. She knows her credit is going to have to be the price she pays for her stupidity and she has accepted it. Just seems like the most sensible route to go considering the enormity of the debt. And DZ, it's the stupidest thing ever. I'm going to give 3 guesses at it and I bet you won't get it.


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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:25 pm

Divorce is still weighing heavy on my mind

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:42 pm

Sorry OP, that's a really shitty situation. I honestly can't think of anything besides like a car or boat.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:57 pm

Danger Zone wrote:Sorry OP, that's a really shitty situation. I honestly can't think of anything besides like a car or boat.

Dude... It was fucking religion.... That's been another source of strife in our marriage. She's become a total religion nut (Christianity). While I do believe in a God, I don't believe it's the same cry baby God that Christianity makes it out to be. Life is too complicated for God to be that way. But that's another discussion for a different forum. Essentially, she joined a "church" that was really just a scam that lured her to voluntarily give money. And a lot of it. I wanted to sue. She doesn't want to. I'm not overly religious. I don't believe in going to church so you can see how this has been a source of major strife for us.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:16 pm

I mean noble cause. Shes only dumb for falling for the scam but i guess its better that she has a good heart than it being for a new BMW or clothes which is what i was thinking ... she must be a very kind but gullible lady. Not the worst flaw

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby jchiles » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:49 pm

I think talking to a BK attorney is worthwhile but you got to get on the same page or reach some kind of understanding on religion and finances moving forward if you want this to work.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I mean noble cause. Shes only dumb for falling for the scam but i guess its better that she has a good heart than it being for a new BMW or clothes which is what i was thinking ... she must be a very kind but gullible lady. Not the worst flaw

You would think so but it's to the point where it's like dealing with a drug addict. It's too consuming. Yea the plan moving forward is 1) settle out or 2) bankruptcy. I prefer option 2. I just wonder if this will really workout after this is over. We were college sweethearts but over the past 2 years she has gotten deeper into religion and it's been tough.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:35 pm

Oof. It's one thing to be religious but it's the hiding it from you that's really concerning. I can't recommend professional counseling enough, even if it's just for you personally to talk through all the emotions you are going through as opposed to marital counseling.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:33 pm

Danger Zone wrote:Oof. It's one thing to be religious but it's the hiding it from you that's really concerning. I can't recommend professional counseling enough, even if it's just for you personally to talk through all the emotions you are going through as opposed to marital counseling.

Dude I'm completely convinced that religion is just as addictive as heroin. It's a drug. Also convinced that bankruptcy is her best option

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Hikikomorist » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I mean noble cause. Shes only dumb for falling for the scam but i guess its better that she has a good heart than it being for a new BMW or clothes which is what i was thinking ... she must be a very kind but gullible lady. Not the worst flaw

I mean, they'd at least have the car and clothes in your hypothetical.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby AVBucks4239 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:13 pm

Danger Zone wrote:AV it'd be her score, not his


Life is still really complicated when one spouse files bankruptcy. I've watched my older brother go through this (he filed, she didn't).

If she needs a car, he will have to sign it.

If they want to buy a house, getting a loan will be harder (debt/income ratio may only consider one income).

If they need a line of credit, it will be taken out in his name.

Yes, bankruptcy only affects one person's score, but it causes all sorts of problems when life happens.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Danger Zone » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:05 am

It's probably for the best that he will have to cosign for anything she wants

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:05 am

AVBucks4239 wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:AV it'd be her score, not his


Life is still really complicated when one spouse files bankruptcy. I've watched my older brother go through this (he filed, she didn't).

If she needs a car, he will have to sign it.

If they want to buy a house, getting a loan will be harder (debt/income ratio may only consider one income).

If they need a line of credit, it will be taken out in his name.

Yes, bankruptcy only affects one person's score, but it causes all sorts of problems when life happens.

I don't see the problem with having all the financial authority in this marriage. Again, that's the price she'll have to pay for her stupidity. WE already own a house and our cars are paid off. Not really trying to get a new house or car anytime soon so I really see no drawbacks to filing for bankruptcy at this point aside from her credit getting all screwed up but I'm fine with that as is she at the moment.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:06 am

Danger Zone wrote:It's probably for the best that he will have to cosign for anything she wants

Exactly DZ. Can't trust her with finances at the moment. I need to oversee it all.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby AVBucks4239 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:I don't see the problem with having all the financial authority in this marriage. Again, that's the price she'll have to pay for her stupidity. WE already own a house and our cars are paid off. Not really trying to get a new house or car anytime soon so I really see no drawbacks to filing for bankruptcy at this point aside from her credit getting all screwed up but I'm fine with that as is she at the moment.

Again, living this vicariously through my brother's experience, what you see as "financial authority" is actually a ton of aggravation and handcuffs on one spouse, which inevitably frustrates and makes things much more difficult for the other spouse. Some examples of what I mean:

(A) I'm under the impression that, someway or somehow, your jointly owned house will become part of the bankruptcy estate. It might be the whole house, it might be just her interest, but I think it will become part of the estate if her name is on the title. It's probably too late to transfer the house solely into your name (fraudulent transfer). So you need to consider a variety of factors there (e.g., whether homestead exemption applies).

(B) If her car is in her name, and it is indeed paid in full, you might want to check state law regarding the motor vehicle exemption amount. If it exceeds the exemption amount, the trustee is going to make the car part of the estate, sell it, and then cut your wife a check for the exemption amount. And then, as happened with my brother's wife, you will have to take a car out in your name, which will affect your credit, which will affect your debt/income ratio, which will lead to an argument about how nice of a car your wife should have, and down the rabbit hole you go.

(C) I've seen this a couple times--the trustee might take the cash surrender value of any life insurance policies in her name. This is sometimes exempt depending on the named beneficiary, but again, this is a huge pain in the ass if she's been paying premiums for a while and now will get nothing in return.

There's a handful of other examples, but I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here and make sure you're aware that her filing bankruptcy is not some magic wand that will remove financial aggravation from your life.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:55 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I don't see the problem with having all the financial authority in this marriage. Again, that's the price she'll have to pay for her stupidity. WE already own a house and our cars are paid off. Not really trying to get a new house or car anytime soon so I really see no drawbacks to filing for bankruptcy at this point aside from her credit getting all screwed up but I'm fine with that as is she at the moment.

Again, living this vicariously through my brother's experience, what you see as "financial authority" is actually a ton of aggravation and handcuffs on one spouse, which inevitably frustrates and makes things much more difficult for the other spouse. Some examples of what I mean:

(A) I'm under the impression that, someway or somehow, your jointly owned house will become part of the bankruptcy estate. It might be the whole house, it might be just her interest, but I think it will become part of the estate if her name is on the title. It's probably too late to transfer the house solely into your name (fraudulent transfer). So you need to consider a variety of factors there (e.g., whether homestead exemption applies).

(B) If her car is in her name, and it is indeed paid in full, you might want to check state law regarding the motor vehicle exemption amount. If it exceeds the exemption amount, the trustee is going to make the car part of the estate, sell it, and then cut your wife a check for the exemption amount. And then, as happened with my brother's wife, you will have to take a car out in your name, which will affect your credit, which will affect your debt/income ratio, which will lead to an argument about how nice of a car your wife should have, and down the rabbit hole you go.

(C) I've seen this a couple times--the trustee might take the cash surrender value of any life insurance policies in her name. This is sometimes exempt depending on the named beneficiary, but again, this is a huge pain in the ass if she's been paying premiums for a while and now will get nothing in return.

There's a handful of other examples, but I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here and make sure you're aware that her filing bankruptcy is not some magic wand that will remove financial aggravation from your life.

A. This is basic Real Estate/Bankruptcy law but a Tenancy by the Entirety (jointly owned by Husband and Wife) protects the property from the creditors of one spouse so not too worried about the house being subjected to the bankruptcy. At least in my jurisdiction this is how it works.

B. We have older cars. Her car is worth about $3k should we lose it, we have a third car that is titled in her father's name for this very reason.

C. We don't have life insurance policies. Too young/No kids.

I'm not looking at bankruptcy as being some sort of "magic wand" but the biggest challenge at this point seems to be the ruined credit she is about to have. Just seems to make the most sense. Between our mortgage, student loans, other basic life obligations, we are barely scraping by paying the minimum on the credit cards. We are not going to be able to pay this thing off. Even if both of us got second jobs it would only increase our income by a miniscule amount. Just not worth it to do deal with it. I am anticipating that she will be eligible for Ch 13 bankruptcy based on the research I've done. Hopefully the monthly payment isn't too much but we are sitting down with a bankruptcy attorney tomorrow to review our options.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:12 pm

This has probably been discussed somewhere but I'm having trouble finding it at the moment. I have a question regarding saving/investing v. paying off student loans as fast as possible. I'm a 3L, married, no kids, and just signed my offer letter a few weeks ago. I'll be making ~125k plus a merit bonus, wife will graduate from grad school in the next few months and will be making 60-70k. Together we will have ~150k in student loans, no other debt. Our state does not have a state income tax, and we do not live extravagantly or plan to. My question is, how do I approach the loans v. saving issue? We will both contribute the max to our 401(k) (my firm actually matches a small percent). I would prefer to get rid of the debt as soon as possible, but I understand that if the interest rate is lower than what I could get as a return from a mutual fund or something I am financially better off putting money into that (after we have established an emergency fund of course).

I know this is a mostly personal opinion, but I was hoping to hear some anecdotal experience from others in a similar situation.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby de minimis » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This has probably been discussed somewhere but I'm having trouble finding it at the moment. I have a question regarding saving/investing v. paying off student loans as fast as possible. I'm a 3L, married, no kids, and just signed my offer letter a few weeks ago. I'll be making ~125k plus a merit bonus, wife will graduate from grad school in the next few months and will be making 60-70k. Together we will have ~150k in student loans, no other debt. Our state does not have a state income tax, and we do not live extravagantly or plan to. My question is, how do I approach the loans v. saving issue? We will both contribute the max to our 401(k) (my firm actually matches a small percent). I would prefer to get rid of the debt as soon as possible, but I understand that if the interest rate is lower than what I could get as a return from a mutual fund or something I am financially better off putting money into that (after we have established an emergency fund of course).

I know this is a mostly personal opinion, but I was hoping to hear some anecdotal experience from others in a similar situation.


How low is your interest rate?

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:39 pm

de minimis wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:This has probably been discussed somewhere but I'm having trouble finding it at the moment. I have a question regarding saving/investing v. paying off student loans as fast as possible. I'm a 3L, married, no kids, and just signed my offer letter a few weeks ago. I'll be making ~125k plus a merit bonus, wife will graduate from grad school in the next few months and will be making 60-70k. Together we will have ~150k in student loans, no other debt. Our state does not have a state income tax, and we do not live extravagantly or plan to. My question is, how do I approach the loans v. saving issue? We will both contribute the max to our 401(k) (my firm actually matches a small percent). I would prefer to get rid of the debt as soon as possible, but I understand that if the interest rate is lower than what I could get as a return from a mutual fund or something I am financially better off putting money into that (after we have established an emergency fund of course).

I know this is a mostly personal opinion, but I was hoping to hear some anecdotal experience from others in a similar situation.


How low is your interest rate?


They're all between 5 and 7%. Right now my instinct is to refinance asap to something in the 3-4% range and then just pay them off slowly, but I haven't looked into it enough to figure out how soon I could do that after my grace period ends.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby kalvano » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This has probably been discussed somewhere but I'm having trouble finding it at the moment. I have a question regarding saving/investing v. paying off student loans as fast as possible. I'm a 3L, married, no kids, and just signed my offer letter a few weeks ago. I'll be making ~125k plus a merit bonus, wife will graduate from grad school in the next few months and will be making 60-70k. Together we will have ~150k in student loans, no other debt. Our state does not have a state income tax, and we do not live extravagantly or plan to. My question is, how do I approach the loans v. saving issue? We will both contribute the max to our 401(k) (my firm actually matches a small percent). I would prefer to get rid of the debt as soon as possible, but I understand that if the interest rate is lower than what I could get as a return from a mutual fund or something I am financially better off putting money into that (after we have established an emergency fund of course).

I know this is a mostly personal opinion, but I was hoping to hear some anecdotal experience from others in a similar situation.


How old are you? If you’re under 27 or so, I’d contribute up to the match on the 401(k) and then aggressively pay down loans. If you’re closer to 35-ish, I’d be more aggressive with the retirement savings.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:47 am

kalvano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:This has probably been discussed somewhere but I'm having trouble finding it at the moment. I have a question regarding saving/investing v. paying off student loans as fast as possible. I'm a 3L, married, no kids, and just signed my offer letter a few weeks ago. I'll be making ~125k plus a merit bonus, wife will graduate from grad school in the next few months and will be making 60-70k. Together we will have ~150k in student loans, no other debt. Our state does not have a state income tax, and we do not live extravagantly or plan to. My question is, how do I approach the loans v. saving issue? We will both contribute the max to our 401(k) (my firm actually matches a small percent). I would prefer to get rid of the debt as soon as possible, but I understand that if the interest rate is lower than what I could get as a return from a mutual fund or something I am financially better off putting money into that (after we have established an emergency fund of course).

I know this is a mostly personal opinion, but I was hoping to hear some anecdotal experience from others in a similar situation.


How old are you? If you’re under 27 or so, I’d contribute up to the match on the 401(k) and then aggressively pay down loans. If you’re closer to 35-ish, I’d be more aggressive with the retirement savings.


25. K-jd

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby kalvano » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
kalvano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:This has probably been discussed somewhere but I'm having trouble finding it at the moment. I have a question regarding saving/investing v. paying off student loans as fast as possible. I'm a 3L, married, no kids, and just signed my offer letter a few weeks ago. I'll be making ~125k plus a merit bonus, wife will graduate from grad school in the next few months and will be making 60-70k. Together we will have ~150k in student loans, no other debt. Our state does not have a state income tax, and we do not live extravagantly or plan to. My question is, how do I approach the loans v. saving issue? We will both contribute the max to our 401(k) (my firm actually matches a small percent). I would prefer to get rid of the debt as soon as possible, but I understand that if the interest rate is lower than what I could get as a return from a mutual fund or something I am financially better off putting money into that (after we have established an emergency fund of course).

I know this is a mostly personal opinion, but I was hoping to hear some anecdotal experience from others in a similar situation.


How old are you? If you’re under 27 or so, I’d contribute up to the match on the 401(k) and then aggressively pay down loans. If you’re closer to 35-ish, I’d be more aggressive with the retirement savings.


25. K-jd


With that kind of combined salary plus bonus, you can clear off loans pretty damn fast if you live frugally. I would do that and see if you can get them cleared before 30, and then turn to full-on retirement savings mode.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:16 am

kalvano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
kalvano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:This has probably been discussed somewhere but I'm having trouble finding it at the moment. I have a question regarding saving/investing v. paying off student loans as fast as possible. I'm a 3L, married, no kids, and just signed my offer letter a few weeks ago. I'll be making ~125k plus a merit bonus, wife will graduate from grad school in the next few months and will be making 60-70k. Together we will have ~150k in student loans, no other debt. Our state does not have a state income tax, and we do not live extravagantly or plan to. My question is, how do I approach the loans v. saving issue? We will both contribute the max to our 401(k) (my firm actually matches a small percent). I would prefer to get rid of the debt as soon as possible, but I understand that if the interest rate is lower than what I could get as a return from a mutual fund or something I am financially better off putting money into that (after we have established an emergency fund of course).

I know this is a mostly personal opinion, but I was hoping to hear some anecdotal experience from others in a similar situation.


How old are you? If you’re under 27 or so, I’d contribute up to the match on the 401(k) and then aggressively pay down loans. If you’re closer to 35-ish, I’d be more aggressive with the retirement savings.


25. K-jd


With that kind of combined salary plus bonus, you can clear off loans pretty damn fast if you live frugally. I would do that and see if you can get them cleared before 30, and then turn to full-on retirement savings mode.


I’ve thought about that, and what I like about it (besides getting rid of the debt obviously) is the guaranteed return from paying off a 6.8% loan. The only thing keeping from it is the idea of trying to save for a house, otherwise keeping cash on hand in case of an emergency, etc. But I may just be overestimating how large of an emergency fund I need.

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Re: Personal Finance 101 for Young Lawyers

Postby nealric » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:15 am

toast and bananas wrote:Does anyone have experience with BBVA Compass' professional mortgage or any other lender's professional mortgage program?


I looked into it when I was mortgage shopping, but didn't end up going with it. The interest rate was higher than going with an 80/10/10 (which is what we did). Since home values rose fairly quickly, we refinanced into a 80/20 at an even lower rate the following year. The professional mortgages make sense when circumstances mean you have difficulty getting another type of loan, but likely don't make sense if you fit into the normal lending criteria. I have a relative who has a specialty dental practice who also got a professional mortgage- it was necessary because lenders treated him as a small business owner but the metrics they used to evaluate the "business" didn't really apply properly to an independent professional. I suppose a solo or small firm partner could be in a similar boat.




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