Importance of 1L summer job geographic location

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Tom_Haverford

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Importance of 1L summer job geographic location

Postby Tom_Haverford » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:13 pm

All of my work experience and everything on my resume is from the same state (non-NY), yet I plan to pursue NYC biglaw during OCI at the end of summer. I know people say anyone can get NYC biglaw regardless of past job location(s)/ties, but I am wondering whether this is really true. 1L summer jobs are virtually meaningless from everything you all have said as long as it's something legal related, so should I try and focus on working in the the NY area this summer or it truly does not matter? Thanks!

acr

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Re: Importance of 1L summer job geographic location

Postby acr » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:43 pm

Tom_Haverford wrote:All of my work experience and everything on my resume is from the same state (non-NY), yet I plan to pursue NYC biglaw during OCI at the end of summer. I know people say anyone can get NYC biglaw regardless of past job location(s)/ties, but I am wondering whether this is really true. 1L summer jobs are virtually meaningless from everything you all have said as long as it's something legal related, so should I try and focus on working in the the NY area this summer or it truly does not matter? Thanks!


Heading to NYC for 1L summer might provide a marginal boost, but landing NYC big law will still come down to school + grades. The value that I see in going to NYC for the summer is that once July rolls around, you can contact firms in the area, let them know you're in town for your internship, and might snag a callback/offer pre-OCI. This is much easier to do if you're already in NYC as opposed to say Minneapolis for the summer. Seems like firms were quicker to hire pre-OCI this year. There is also value in networking that you could do at firms over the summer. You don't really need ties for NYC, so the value of being in NYC for 1L summer isn't really establishing a tie

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Re: Importance of 1L summer job geographic location

Postby AZ123 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:14 pm

acr wrote:
Tom_Haverford wrote:All of my work experience and everything on my resume is from the same state (non-NY), yet I plan to pursue NYC biglaw during OCI at the end of summer. I know people say anyone can get NYC biglaw regardless of past job location(s)/ties, but I am wondering whether this is really true. 1L summer jobs are virtually meaningless from everything you all have said as long as it's something legal related, so should I try and focus on working in the the NY area this summer or it truly does not matter? Thanks!


Heading to NYC for 1L summer might provide a marginal boost, but landing NYC big law will still come down to school + grades. The value that I see in going to NYC for the summer is that once July rolls around, you can contact firms in the area, let them know you're in town for your internship, and might snag a callback/offer pre-OCI. This is much easier to do if you're already in NYC as opposed to say Minneapolis for the summer. Seems like firms were quicker to hire pre-OCI this year. There is also value in networking that you could do at firms over the summer. You don't really need ties for NYC, so the value of being in NYC for 1L summer isn't really establishing a tie



This is correct. Although ties aren't as important for NYC as they are for other areas, it certainly wouldn't hurt to have ties. It would make your OCI interviews a lot easier, since you would be able to talk about your experience in NYC and why you want to work there post-graduation. I spent 1l summer in my desired market and it made a huge difference for the reasons stated by acr (being there for early interviews, networking, etc).

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Re: Importance of 1L summer job geographic location

Postby hangingtree » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:38 pm

Tom_Haverford wrote:...so should I try and focus on working in the the NY area this summer or it truly does not matter? Thanks!


It isn't that it truly doesn't matter, it's that it doesn't matter much at all, so these aren't the only two ways of looking at the dilemma. From the rest of your post, it looks like you understand this and are instead trying to see how much being in NY this summer could help you.

I would think of it like this. For every firm it is a requirement that you show them that you are committed to working in NY after graduation, but once you do so it is hard to imagine a scenario where you'd increase your chances at a given firm based on how committed you are to NY. Committed to biglaw, sure, but not committed to NY. This is because it is incredibly easy to meet that requirement. Lots of reasons. First, all New Yorkers love NY and don't doubt it when someone says s/he wants to live there. Second, supply/demand is favorable to job-seekers. If firms decided to be more selective based on NY ties, you'd probably find V50 or whatever looking well below median at T14 and outside of T14 altogether. They don't want to do that for prestige reasons. Third, and related to the first, most New Yorkers aren't from NY originally, understand its appeal, and are generally an accepting bunch.

My own experience. Top 25% or so at MVPBD. I had hardly even been to NY before my first callback and just told them I wanted to be where all the action was essentially. Got offers everywhere I did a callback and got through all meaningful screeners except one, and I highly doubt that was due to my lack of ties to NY.

Now, I have heard of people getting offers from firms based on attending networking events summer of 1L. These things can sometimes really help your chances at individual firms I figure (read: not for NY generally). This is the only way 1L summer in NY can help you really. You should consider it if your grades are average or below (I assume you're at non-HYS T14), as it may help to land you an SA or get you a much better firm than you would have otherwise. One girl I know had true median grades but thinks she got an offer from a top firm (think Cleary/Simpson/Debevoise/DPW) because she attended one of those events and networked well. If your grades are above average, I doubt you'll need it and I doubt attending any Wachtell reception will significantly improve your chances at a job there, so you probably won't jump any bands in prestige. (If your grades are above average though, there is the option of doing pre-OCI callbacks if you're based in NY, which is super cool.)

But do you really want to do your 1L summer in New York just for that? Depends on your grade range (which you probably won't be able to tell until it's too late) and your appetite for risk. I decided that I wouldn't, and fortunately things worked out for me. But I don't think it would have been foolish at all to spend the summer in NY networking like crazy and do everything I possibly could to get that first SA offer. Plus, you'll have the opportunity to decide whether NY is in fact right for you and you'll have some fun while you're at it.

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dylicious

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Re: Importance of 1L summer job geographic location

Postby dylicious » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:23 pm

Tom_Haverford wrote:All of my work experience and everything on my resume is from the same state (non-NY), yet I plan to pursue NYC biglaw during OCI at the end of summer. I know people say anyone can get NYC biglaw regardless of past job location(s)/ties, but I am wondering whether this is really true. 1L summer jobs are virtually meaningless from everything you all have said as long as it's something legal related, so should I try and focus on working in the the NY area this summer or it truly does not matter? Thanks!


I did my summer in DC but shot for NY at OCI. It didn't really hurt me during OCI, but nowadays with all the early offers going out, I think it would have been better to be in NYC just becase of pre-OCI interviews. A lot of my classmates who summered in NYC had pre-OCI offers. It all worked out for me and I took an NYC Biglaw offer from OCI, but it could have been a lot easier I think if I summered there.

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Tom_Haverford

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Re: Importance of 1L summer job geographic location

Postby Tom_Haverford » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:52 am

Thank you all for your responses! I guess to add some color to it all, my concern was that if I decided to work in SoCal this summer (where my entire upbringing/previous job(s) were), a NYC firm would be more hesitant to extend an offer if they fear I will jump ship and move back west. Even if my only focus is currently NYC, and I honestly have zero intention of working in CA, I can understand why a potential employer may think otherwise. That's primarily why I wanted to consider NY for this summer.

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Re: Importance of 1L summer job geographic location

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:12 am

I'm from right outside NYC, went to school in NY but not NYC, and spent my 1L summer in the town where I am in law school. Career services always made comments about how you never have to convince NYC firms you want to be in NYC but I have to tell you - I was asked by everyone I interviewed with in NYC for a 2L position why NYC. Again, I'm from the area and still go to school in-state. That surprised me.

That said, I didn't spend my 1L summer in NYC and I did get a 2L position in the city.

I think its smart to try to work in NY for the summer. Especially if the alternative is working somewhere where you have strong ties, as weird as that sounds, because it could look exactly how you fear it will look (as in ultimately, you are committed to CA/not serious about NY.)

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Re: Importance of 1L summer job geographic location

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:25 am

My entire resume pre-law school is focused in one southern state. I have a moderate to strong southern accent. I went to law school in the Midwest.

I got no callbacks in NY despite success elsewhere and was grilled in every screener about why NY.

Obviously I'm one person and I don't doubt TLS on this on the whole, but just remember that NYC doesn't care 0 about ties whatsoever.

It's probably a good idea to spend your summer there for the networking reasons given above, too.

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Re: Importance of 1L summer job geographic location

Postby ND2018 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:02 am

Your grades and school will definitely be the most important factors. That being said, I think living in the city and networking with attorneys there can provide a significant boost. I have several friends who snagged big law with bad grades because of networking. If you consider yourself a borderline candidate, I would recommend living in the city so that networking and meeting lawyers is easier.



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