Question about diversity requirements for 1L SA

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Question about diversity requirements for 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:44 pm

This is kind of an awkward question to ask associates at the firms I'm looking at for a 1L SA, so I thought I'd ask it here.
Does being Middle Eastern count as being "diverse" for the purposes of these SAs? I know a lot of firms have "Asian American" as a diversity initiative and I'd technically be part of that, but on most race/ethnicity forms I've ever seen, MEs are considered white.
I really would like to apply for a firm SA my 1L summer, but don't want to be seen as the "white" dude taking advantage of a diversity program (even though culturally I'm far from what I guess a normal white American would be). Would it be inappropriate to apply?
Thanks for any input!

runinthefront

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Re: Question about diversity requirements for 1L SA

Postby runinthefront » Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This is kind of an awkward question to ask associates at the firms I'm looking at for a 1L SA, so I thought I'd ask it here.
Does being Middle Eastern count as being "diverse" for the purposes of these SAs? I know a lot of firms have "Asian American" as a diversity initiative and I'd technically be part of that, but on most race/ethnicity forms I've ever seen, MEs are considered white.
I really would like to apply for a firm SA my 1L summer, but don't want to be seen as the "white" dude taking advantage of a diversity program (even though culturally I'm far from what I guess a normal white American would be). Would it be inappropriate to apply?
Thanks for any input!

just apply. if they like your application, you'll be considered.
Last edited by runinthefront on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dabigchina

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Re: Question about diversity requirements for 1L SA

Postby dabigchina » Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:54 pm

Just apply. If the firm find someone more diverse than you (which tbf is pretty likely) it will take them instead.

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Mullens

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Re: Question about diversity requirements for 1L SA

Postby Mullens » Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:39 pm

You're diverse. Apply. Law firms don't work in the same limited spectrum of diversity as law school admissions.

foregetaboutdre

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Re: Question about diversity requirements for 1L SA

Postby foregetaboutdre » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:This is kind of an awkward question to ask associates at the firms I'm looking at for a 1L SA, so I thought I'd ask it here.
Does being Middle Eastern count as being "diverse" for the purposes of these SAs? I know a lot of firms have "Asian American" as a diversity initiative and I'd technically be part of that, but on most race/ethnicity forms I've ever seen, MEs are considered white.
I really would like to apply for a firm SA my 1L summer, but don't want to be seen as the "white" dude taking advantage of a diversity program (even though culturally I'm far from what I guess a normal white American would be). Would it be inappropriate to apply?
Thanks for any input!


Friend in a secondary market after 1L got one of these positions being ME. Apply. The worst thing they can say is no. I would recommend that if the application asks for your ethnicity and ME is not an option (which occurs often as I'm sure you're aware) to select "other" and enter your ethnicity.

Phil Brooks

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Re: Question about diversity requirements for 1L SA

Postby Phil Brooks » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:I really would like to apply for a firm SA my 1L summer, but don't want to be seen as the "white" dude taking advantage of a diversity program (even though culturally I'm far from what I guess a normal white American would be). Would it be inappropriate to apply?
Thanks for any input!


Do you care more about not being seen as taking advantage of the program, or actually not taking advantage of it?

You are white. You have not faced the systemic multi-generational hurdles that visible minorities have on average faced. Would you really feel comfortable swooping in and taking this opportunity from someone who has?

Now, if you had grown up poor maybe you would have a credible case. But just "not feeling the same as normal white Americans" doesn't come close.

midwestrocks

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Re: Question about diversity requirements for 1L SA

Postby midwestrocks » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:48 am

Phil Brooks wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I really would like to apply for a firm SA my 1L summer, but don't want to be seen as the "white" dude taking advantage of a diversity program (even though culturally I'm far from what I guess a normal white American would be). Would it be inappropriate to apply?
Thanks for any input!


Do you care more about not being seen as taking advantage of the program, or actually not taking advantage of it?

You are white. You have not faced the systemic multi-generational hurdles that visible minorities have on average faced. Would you really feel comfortable swooping in and taking this opportunity from someone who has?

Now, if you had grown up poor maybe you would have a credible case. But just "not feeling the same as normal white Americans" doesn't come close.


Lol OP says he's "culturally far from what a normal white American would be" and is Middle Eastern, but apparently he's white full stop according to you, who's never met him. What if he's Muslim? That's pretty freaking diverse from the perspective of law firm culture. Apply.

Phil Brooks

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Re: Question about diversity requirements for 1L SA

Postby Phil Brooks » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:14 pm

midwestrocks wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I really would like to apply for a firm SA my 1L summer, but don't want to be seen as the "white" dude taking advantage of a diversity program (even though culturally I'm far from what I guess a normal white American would be). Would it be inappropriate to apply?
Thanks for any input!


Do you care more about not being seen as taking advantage of the program, or actually not taking advantage of it?

You are white. You have not faced the systemic multi-generational hurdles that visible minorities have on average faced. Would you really feel comfortable swooping in and taking this opportunity from someone who has?

Now, if you had grown up poor maybe you would have a credible case. But just "not feeling the same as normal white Americans" doesn't come close.


Lol OP says he's "culturally far from what a normal white American would be" and is Middle Eastern, but apparently he's white full stop according to you, who's never met him. What if he's Muslim? That's pretty freaking diverse from the perspective of law firm culture. Apply.


He did not say he was Muslim in his original post. If he was I'm sure he would have said it. All he said is that he is "culturally different," whatever that means. It sounds like he is trying to game the system.

I received an interview for a lucrative 1L SA diversity position based on the fact that I am not from the US (in fact, my ethnicity is actually from a country in the Middle East). To use OP's stereotype I also have little in common with the "normal white American" since I don't like NASCAR or beer or college football or video games (I assume this is what OP meant with his stereotype). But I still turned the interview down, because it would have been ludicrous for me to claim I am "diverse" (translation: disadvantaged).

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Mullens

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Re: Question about diversity requirements for 1L SA

Postby Mullens » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:50 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:
midwestrocks wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I really would like to apply for a firm SA my 1L summer, but don't want to be seen as the "white" dude taking advantage of a diversity program (even though culturally I'm far from what I guess a normal white American would be). Would it be inappropriate to apply?
Thanks for any input!


Do you care more about not being seen as taking advantage of the program, or actually not taking advantage of it?

You are white. You have not faced the systemic multi-generational hurdles that visible minorities have on average faced. Would you really feel comfortable swooping in and taking this opportunity from someone who has?

Now, if you had grown up poor maybe you would have a credible case. But just "not feeling the same as normal white Americans" doesn't come close.


Lol OP says he's "culturally far from what a normal white American would be" and is Middle Eastern, but apparently he's white full stop according to you, who's never met him. What if he's Muslim? That's pretty freaking diverse from the perspective of law firm culture. Apply.


He did not say he was Muslim in his original post. If he was I'm sure he would have said it. All he said is that he is "culturally different," whatever that means. It sounds like he is trying to game the system.

I received an interview for a lucrative 1L SA diversity position based on the fact that I am not from the US (in fact, my ethnicity is actually from a country in the Middle East). To use OP's stereotype I also have little in common with the "normal white American" since I don't like NASCAR or beer or college football or video games (I assume this is what OP meant with his stereotype). But I still turned the interview down, because it would have been ludicrous for me to claim I am "diverse" (translation: disadvantaged).


Your translation, and the whole basis of your thinking, is wrong. Diversity for law firms is far broader than you ascribe and in many ways just means not an upper-middle class straight, white male. Middle Eastern CLEARLY applies as diverse for diversity programs. OP should apply and you should have taken that interview.

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Re: Question about diversity requirements for 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:36 pm

OP here, thanks for the helpful responses! I will go ahead and apply, worst happens they find someone better.

*and to the comment that I'm trying to "game the system", lol just no. Yes, I was raised Muslim, as another poster suggested (but again, not something you can see from my outward ethnicity so I wasn't sure how relevant it would be. Also - nowhere near as devout as my parents would like me to be :oops: ). And by "typical American" I don't mean football/nascar - I mean being the kid with the parents who had funny accents and "back home..." stories, bringing to school weird smelling food, going to the mosque instead of church, awkwardly telling friends I couldn't eat with them for a good part of every summer, getting called a terrorist "as a joke", etc.
But responses like that are the exact reason I was hesitant to apply to diversity positions; I don't want it to hurt my 2L summer if I reapply for SA then and they go "oh that guy wasn't diverse enough"

smile0751

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Re: Question about diversity requirements for 1L SA

Postby smile0751 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:13 pm

Seriously? No one is going to hold it against you. Dont misrepresent who you are, but I'm sure firms are very much looking for candidates such as yourself. If you're nervous, talk to your career services... but I'm nearly certain they'd tell you to go for it!



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