Hiring Freezes??

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am not the original anon, but I have heard that the USAOs will follow the OBM guidance. Here's hoping for everyone with offers to clear before Feb. 22.

Not criticizing you, but that's not really super specific. It clarifies for people with start dates before Feb 22, but doesn't say anything about what will happen to people with later start dates, because of all the language giving discretion to agency heads (that is, are they going to use that discretion? Are criminal AUSAs exempted for public safety/national security? Does it depend on the office?). Sigh.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:05 pm

From what I know, if you get clearance before Feb. 22, they will start you before that deadline. If you do not, they will seek exemptions, but the criteria and process is unclear at this time. Because of that, no one knows the likelihood of obtaining the exemption or the timing.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:From what I know, if you get clearance before Feb. 22, they will start you before that deadline. If you do not, they will seek exemptions, but the criteria and process is unclear at this time. Because of that, no one knows the likelihood of obtaining the exemption or the timing.

Oh, okay, thanks, that's helpful. (I just honestly didn't know whether "following the guidance" meant seeking exemptions or not, since putting it in the guidance as an option doesn't mean an agency head will choose to do so.)

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am not the original anon, but I have heard that the USAOs will follow the OBM guidance. Here's hoping for everyone with offers to clear before Feb. 22.


The vibe that I've gotten directly from a USAO HR is that they're going to try to have to ask for the fewest exemptions/favors possible. So just because you have a start date after 2/22 doesn't mean you're screwed. There's both the public safety waiver and the catchall waiver. Especially if you're far into the process and/or filling a crucial need, HR is likely going to try to keep you.

All the above is if you're headed into a favored agency, though. Totally different if you're going into EPA/civil rights.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:21 pm

This article has a statement from the DOJ - no new information.

"Pursuant to the President’s freeze memorandum, the Department is developing implementing guidance that will seek to ensure DOJ’s essential national security and public safety work continues without disruption. We also understand the Office of Management and Budget, and the Office of Personnel Management, will be issuing further guidance regarding the freeze. In the meantime, the Justice Department will continue, without pause, to protect the nation with the available resources it has today."

http://abovethelaw.com/2017/01/what-doe ... epartment/

forumsleuth

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby forumsleuth » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:07 pm


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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:10 pm

forumsleuth wrote:https://live.washingtonpost.com/do-you-have-questions-about-the-trump-hiring-freeze-and-other-changes-coming-to-the-federal-workforce.html

Not a bad discussion.


Thanks. REALLY annoying when they say "see answer above" that isn't the same question. For Honors folks, looks like confirmation we're just waiting for our respective agencies to make a call. Example:

"Q: Hiring Freeze for Intel Community
I recently accepted a conditional offer for an entry level position within the IC in December. I am not a federal employee and never have been. My clearance investigation is currently underway, will my offer be rescinded because of the freeze?

A: Jeff Neal
Per the OMB guidance, the agency will review all such offers and make decisions on a case by case basis"

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:14 pm

ATL has some good stuff re DOJ, too.

"The DOJ spokesperson did not address this subject (although we raised it). But we understand from sources that based on past practice over the last decade or so, (1) outstanding Honors Program offers should remain valid (i.e., they will not be rescinded), and (2) the Honors Program will continue during the course of a freeze, but possibly at a greatly reduced size. This is consistent with what happened during the 2011-2014 hiring freeze: the Honors Program kept its doors open, but the number of available jobs dropped dramatically, by more than half.

Remember, however, that the scope of this latest freeze is not yet clear (as the DOJ statement suggests). It could be narrower than the last one, or it could be broader."

http://abovethelaw.com/2017/01/what-doe ... epartment/

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby jhepp22 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:14 pm

So I have a question and I am hoping someone on here can help me out. So I received a phone call on January 18th saying I had been selected for a position with USDA. The next day on the 19th I received the tentative offer email and that same day submitted fingerprints and a couple other forms to try and beat the hiring freeze. The agency wanted me to do this to try and get ahead of the freeze. Well now I received a call this last Thursday from USDA saying that I am affected by the freeze. They said I am in a grey area and they are determining what to do if a tentative offer was already sent out before the freeze. They are hoping that beings we took those steps to try and beat the freeze that maybe they will honor my tentative offer. Any advice or input would be appreciated.

Thanks!

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:54 pm

Unfortunately this is pretty much what the whole thread has been describing. Guidance was issued saying that offers made before Jan 22, with a start date before Feb 22, will definitely be offered. Start dates after Feb 22 (or no firm start date) are up in the air - agency heads can seek exemptions based on agency mission, resources, national security, public safety. Only the USDA knows whether they will seek an exemption (it sounds like they may try to do this for you?) and no one knows yet, I think, what the process for or likelihood of getting an exemption is. So sadly the only thing I can say is sit tight and wait for more guidance? But I am very sorry to hear you've been affected by this and hope it gets resolved quickly.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby jhepp22 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:06 pm

Thanks for responding. So beings it is a freeze could they technically hold the position until the freeze is over and than hire me? Or would they have to revoke the offer and position entirely and have people reapply? I am sorry I am just so confused and worried at this point. Like you said it is all up in the air as of right now and I hate that lol.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:09 pm

jhepp22 wrote:Thanks for responding. So beings it is a freeze could they technically hold the position until the freeze is over and than hire me? Or would they have to revoke the offer and position entirely and have people reapply? I am sorry I am just so confused and worried at this point. Like you said it is all up in the air as of right now and I hate that lol.

I know! It's totally frustrating. I don't think they would have to have people reapply, and I think they could hold the position until the freeze is over and then hire you. Depending on how long the freeze is, some agencies might have to reopen the positions because their chosen candidates will have had to take other jobs in the meantime, but I don't think freeze means they have to start over once it's lifted.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby jhepp22 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:17 pm

It is really frustrating! Well I hope everyone with tentative offers gets the chance they deserve. We will wait and see I guess. Welcome to the federal government huh lol.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:18 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
jhepp22 wrote:Thanks for responding. So beings it is a freeze could they technically hold the position until the freeze is over and than hire me? Or would they have to revoke the offer and position entirely and have people reapply? I am sorry I am just so confused and worried at this point. Like you said it is all up in the air as of right now and I hate that lol.

I know! It's totally frustrating. I don't think they would have to have people reapply, and I think they could hold the position until the freeze is over and then hire you. Depending on how long the freeze is, some agencies might have to reopen the positions because their chosen candidates will have had to take other jobs in the meantime, but I don't think freeze means they have to start over once it's lifted.



Is this what agencies have done in the past? It just seems they may decide to make a hard decision re revocation rather than string people along, right?

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby jhepp22 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:28 pm

I have no clue what they do if they revoke an offer or let them keep it untill the freeze is done. That's why I asked I wish I knew exactly what agencies are going to decide to do. Hopefully tentative offers are honored.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
jhepp22 wrote:Thanks for responding. So beings it is a freeze could they technically hold the position until the freeze is over and than hire me? Or would they have to revoke the offer and position entirely and have people reapply? I am sorry I am just so confused and worried at this point. Like you said it is all up in the air as of right now and I hate that lol.

I know! It's totally frustrating. I don't think they would have to have people reapply, and I think they could hold the position until the freeze is over and then hire you. Depending on how long the freeze is, some agencies might have to reopen the positions because their chosen candidates will have had to take other jobs in the meantime, but I don't think freeze means they have to start over once it's lifted.



Is this what agencies have done in the past? It just seems they may decide to make a hard decision re revocation rather than string people along, right?

I don't know what agencies have done in the past. Sure, they might just revoke. I know people generally hate having to go through the hiring process, so I think that if they can find a way not to have to revoke and start over, they will. If I were running an office and we'd finally decided on a candidate and extended an offer, and it got frozen, when the freeze was lifted I'd want to know if that person was still available before going through a whole new hiring cycle. But I don't think that's the same as stringing them along in the sense of saying "I'm sure it will be over any day now so just wait for us!" - I think either "I'm sorry, but due to the freeze we're terminating all offers and will re-post for those positions when the freeze is over," or "I'm sorry, we can't bring you on board until the freeze is over, and we don't know when that will be, so we understand if you choose to go a different way and please just let us know if you do" is equally likely. It will probably depend on the length of the freeze and individual circumstances (both for the agency and the applicant), though.

(And keep in mind I'm just guessing like the rest of us.)

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby haus » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:33 pm

I believe that some agencies have rules regarding how long a hiring process can extend. Depending on how long freeze last (and if it is followed up by other delaying tactics by the iPOTUS), agencies with these rules might need to reboot the process for hiring of some positions based upon how much time passes.

Hopefully this will not become an issue for many.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:31 pm

Just to add a data point - I am an AUSA who got hired in another office and my start date was March 6 (which is literally the next start date after Feb 22 because you can't start in the middle of a pay period). The hope was that transferring me from one office to the next would get around the freeze. Apparently since the office I am going to was filling a vacancy it doesn't matter that I'm a transfer, they're still counting it as a "hire." And they asked if I could change my start date to before Feb 22 and were told no. So they have to ask for an exception and they're still waiting on guidance about how that works - there was supposed to be a big meeting about this last Friday afternoon but apparently it didn't happen.

The good thing is that they said they definitely still want me and will do everything they can to get an exception, and also that I'm moving for personal reasons so was leaving this office whether I had a job or not (so it's not like I had quit and then found out I wasn't getting the job). Unfortunately we're moving across the country and I've given notice for my apartment so I can't just stay here and work my current job until the issue is resolved, and who knows when it will resolve.

(The other thing is that for this to work I can't have a break in service, which means I may need to use up my leave/take unpaid leave so I can be "employed" even though I'm leaving? Ugh.)

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:32 pm

DOJ is about to get the smack down I think...

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:DOJ is about to get the smack down I think...

Would you mind being less cryptic?

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby bk1 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:DOJ is about to get the smack down I think...

Would you mind being less cryptic?

Presumably this.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:39 pm

bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:DOJ is about to get the smack down I think...

Would you mind being less cryptic?

Presumably this.


Yes that. Sorry I should have been more clear. This is the potential catalyst for a purge. Whether it happens or not, he now has the ammo to say this justifies the view DOJ is a political entity now and needs to be cleaned out. Given his recent actions elsewhere (EPA for instance) I think this is likely to happen.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:59 pm

Gotcha. I was just a little confused by the connection to the hiring freeze (many DOJ agencies are really far removed from the day to day of political appointees in Washington, and the immigration stuff he wants to do is going to require lots of DOJ employees, so I tend to see cleaning out the heads at main justice as a little removed from on the ground hiring).

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:14 pm

x
Last edited by TheFutureLawyer on Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:01 pm

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am an AUSA who got hired in another office and my start date was March 6 (which is literally the next start date after Feb 22 because you can't start in the middle of a pay period).



I dunno how it works exactly, but I've known multiple people who've transferred from one agency to another with an official start date in the middle of a pay period.


eta; my guess is that it's a huge headache for HR to do it so they basically usually tell people it's not possible.

maybe it's just my agency; they never let anyone start except at the beginning of a pay period.



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