Hiring Freezes??

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get it to x

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby get it to x » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:


So, DOJ, AUSA not exempt, correct?


Seems like they are not exempt unless Sessions requests and receives an exemption for AUSA/AAGs to continue to be hired on the basis that their responsibilities relate to the public safety. Might happen if there is a compelling need to expand the DoJ/AUSA workforce to address Trump's pledge to prosecute and deport criminally-charged undocumented immigrants.
Last edited by get it to x on Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

FSK

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby FSK » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:

So offers extended before today are safe?

And can someone explain a little more about Schedule C?


Civilian Executive. They're like the bridge between politicals and careers.
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

andythefir

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby andythefir » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:30 pm

1 Even though that isn't from a legit source, who would take the time to type that up if not legit?

2 Is there a technical definition for "vacancy" here? Does that mean not currently accepting applications or a job that doesn't have a butt in a seat?

3 This seems to be pretty good news for the people in the most perilous position (job extended and accepted, trying to figure out if you're moving to a new town for a new job or not).

MillerTime15

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby MillerTime15 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:

So offers extended before today are safe?

And can someone explain a little more about Schedule C?


My interpretation is that offers accepted before noon yesterday are safe.

bjohnsobf

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby bjohnsobf » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:33 pm

No FSK you're fucked if you just have an honors program offer. Your HP position is vacant until you're sitting in you're seat on your EOD (start date) you have an offer you are not appointed.

The only people in the clear are judicial clerks.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:36 pm

bjohnsobf wrote:No FSK you're fucked if you just have an honors program offer. Your HP position is vacant until you're sitting in you're seat on your EOD (start date) you have an offer you are not appointed.

The only people in the clear are judicial clerks.


And maybe those headed into national security type agencies (*he says with his fingers crossed*).

FSK

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby FSK » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:37 pm

bjohnsobf wrote:No FSK you're fucked if you just have an honors program offer. Your HP position is vacant until you're sitting in you're seat on your EOD (start date) you have an offer you are not appointed.

The only people in the clear are judicial clerks.


I feel like there's some verbal ambiguity here that agency heads will determine? IDK, I may indeed be fucked
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:39 pm

FSK wrote:
bjohnsobf wrote:No FSK you're fucked if you just have an honors program offer. Your HP position is vacant until you're sitting in you're seat on your EOD (start date) you have an offer you are not appointed.

The only people in the clear are judicial clerks.


I feel like there's some verbal ambiguity here that agency heads will determine? IDK, I may indeed be fucked


Really sucks to have to deal with this, sorry dude.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
FSK wrote:
bjohnsobf wrote:No FSK you're fucked if you just have an honors program offer. Your HP position is vacant until you're sitting in you're seat on your EOD (start date) you have an offer you are not appointed.

The only people in the clear are judicial clerks.


I feel like there's some verbal ambiguity here that agency heads will determine? IDK, I may indeed be fucked


Really sucks to have to deal with this, sorry dude.

Would this be fair grounds to renege on an accepted offer? Think HUD/DOL.

MrT

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby MrT » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:45 pm

FSK wrote:
bjohnsobf wrote:No FSK you're fucked if you just have an honors program offer. Your HP position is vacant until you're sitting in you're seat on your EOD (start date) you have an offer you are not appointed.

The only people in the clear are judicial clerks.


I feel like there's some verbal ambiguity here that agency heads will determine? IDK, I may indeed be fucked

"No vacant positions" indicates, to me, that you're fine. Perhaps it can be read to mean that the person must currently occupy the role, but logic says the position is not longer vacant when an applicant has accepted. All efforts to fill the role have ceased and both parties have proceeded under the assumption they have a job/new employee.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:46 pm

MrT wrote:
FSK wrote:
bjohnsobf wrote:No FSK you're fucked if you just have an honors program offer. Your HP position is vacant until you're sitting in you're seat on your EOD (start date) you have an offer you are not appointed.

The only people in the clear are judicial clerks.


I feel like there's some verbal ambiguity here that agency heads will determine? IDK, I may indeed be fucked

"No vacant positions" indicates, to me, that you're fine. Perhaps it can be read to mean that the person must currently occupy the role, but logic says the position is not longer vacant when an applicant has accepted. All efforts to fill the role have ceased and both parties have proceeded under the assumption they have a job/new employee.


Don't you think it's up to OMB (Mick Mulvaney) to interpret?

FSK

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby FSK » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:47 pm

I mean, I spoke with someone fairly senior at DOJ Office of Attorney Recruitment, and their position is going to be this exempts HPs. They could, of course, get shut down when new political appointees get a footing.
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bjohnsobf

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby bjohnsobf » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:48 pm

Seek clarification from your point of contact but in my view the administration just basically revoked you're offer especially in an Agency like that. Perhaps opm will deem honors programs necessary but in don't know why and perhaps this only last 90 days until OMB presents some sort of government reduction plan but the freeze remains until that plans implementation. This creates a lot of ongoing uncertainty.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:48 pm

HP positions are also sort of weird in that they're not regular positions. Those positions have definitely been filled under hiring freezes before.

FSK

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby FSK » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:50 pm

Can a position be not vacant, but also not have a full appointment? The relevant clauses in the order are fairly separate, and its in that grey area HP hirees would exist.

Not surprised Trump's executive vomit is in-artfully drafted.
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MillerTime15

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby MillerTime15 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:54 pm

The leaked document was the official memorandum. It is up now on the White House website: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/23/presidential-memorandum-regarding-hiring-freeze

FSK

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby FSK » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:57 pm

Also no definition of public safety, no real guidance for OPM on what "otherwise necessary" might mean.

The 90-day plan could be implemented before most HP's would want to start also.
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Npret

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Npret » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:03 pm

get it to x wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:


So, DOJ, AUSA not exempt, correct?


Seems like they are not exempt unless Sessions requests and receives an exemption for AUSA/AAGs to continue to be hired on the basis that their responsibilities relate to the public safety. Might happen if there is a compelling need to expand the DoJ/AUSA workforce to address Trump's pledge to prosecute and deport criminally-charged illegal immigrants.

You mean undocumented.

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:08 pm

Anyone have any insight as to whether independent agencies are OK? This looks like really murky territory

andythefir

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby andythefir » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:20 pm

Criminal AUSAs should be fine either way given exception for public safety and head of agency gets to choose. For criminal AUSA hiring to freeze Sessions would have to decide criminal AUSAs are not public safety.

haus

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby haus » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any insight as to whether independent agencies are OK? This looks like really murky territory

FDIC pushed up the hire date on their new CISO to the 19th (starting someone on a date other than the first day of a pay period is very rare there). I suspect that this was done to avoid needing to fight over the possible impact of a hiring freeze.

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zot1

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby zot1 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:41 pm

FWIW (nothing), a vacant position is a vacancy that is currently being advertised to be filled. If you've accepted a position, the vacancy is closed. Therefore, those positions, imo, are safe. This would include HP hiring because technically those positions are not vacant anymore either.

FSK

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby FSK » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:46 pm

zot1 wrote:FWIW (nothing), a vacant position is a vacancy that is currently being advertised to be filled. If you've accepted a position, the vacancy is closed. Therefore, those positions, imo, are safe. This would include HP hiring because technically those positions are not vacant anymore either.


You're a gov employment lawyer, right? Sounds good to me
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zot1

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby zot1 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:47 pm

Yes. And short of policy saying otherwise, that's how I would interpret it.

bjohnsobf

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Re: Hiring Freezes??

Postby bjohnsobf » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:54 pm

A position isn't filled until you're entry on duty until you are being paid to perform a position. Offers get made all the time pending things like funding, security clearances suitability checks. Remember Regan was able to renege on people who had accepted offers research that precedent. Paralegal A retired from my office last week his position is vacant until someone is there performing his job. A simple search on federal soup contains stories of accepted offers withdrawn. I'm not trying to be a dick there's just no need for blind optimism.



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