How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

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bruinfan10

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby bruinfan10 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:25 pm

zot1 wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:Best shot is clerkship or other fed gov't employment. Clerkship will get you there faster, Fed gov't will get you to partner (in like 15+ years).

ETA: sill a long shot.


OP is not top of his class. He couldn't get into honors programs with presumably not good grades.

OP, I know you said you're not interested in this, but if you reaaaally want biglaw and want to be positive about it, clerkship is in fact the way to go. You might not be competitive for a clerkship now, but after a year at a firm, you might be. Once you score the clerkship, that will open more opportunities for you. So there is hope. Sorry I wasn't more positive before.

like what, a state trial clerkship or something? in what universe is a clerkship easier to get than a biglaw job?

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zot1

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby zot1 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:17 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:
zot1 wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:Best shot is clerkship or other fed gov't employment. Clerkship will get you there faster, Fed gov't will get you to partner (in like 15+ years).

ETA: sill a long shot.


OP is not top of his class. He couldn't get into honors programs with presumably not good grades.

OP, I know you said you're not interested in this, but if you reaaaally want biglaw and want to be positive about it, clerkship is in fact the way to go. You might not be competitive for a clerkship now, but after a year at a firm, you might be. Once you score the clerkship, that will open more opportunities for you. So there is hope. Sorry I wasn't more positive before.

like what, a state trial clerkship or something? in what universe is a clerkship easier to get than a biglaw job?


Lol, in this universe? Quite a bit of people get Art. III clerkships after not getting SAs.

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby BigZuck » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:21 pm

Way to go OP, now you've hurt the butts of some VERY ESTEEMED LEARNED judicial clerks

Nice1

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby runinthefront » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:44 pm

zot1 wrote:
bruinfan10 wrote:
zot1 wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:Best shot is clerkship or other fed gov't employment. Clerkship will get you there faster, Fed gov't will get you to partner (in like 15+ years).

ETA: sill a long shot.


OP is not top of his class. He couldn't get into honors programs with presumably not good grades.

OP, I know you said you're not interested in this, but if you reaaaally want biglaw and want to be positive about it, clerkship is in fact the way to go. You might not be competitive for a clerkship now, but after a year at a firm, you might be. Once you score the clerkship, that will open more opportunities for you. So there is hope. Sorry I wasn't more positive before.

like what, a state trial clerkship or something? in what universe is a clerkship easier to get than a biglaw job?


Lol, in this universe? Quite a bit of people get Art. III clerkships after not getting SAs.

I don't think that proves your point, though.

An Art. III clerkship, on average, is definitely harder than securing a biglaw job.
Last edited by runinthefront on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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zot1

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby zot1 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:11 pm

runinthefront wrote:
zot1 wrote:
bruinfan10 wrote:
zot1 wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:Best shot is clerkship or other fed gov't employment. Clerkship will get you there faster, Fed gov't will get you to partner (in like 15+ years).

ETA: sill a long shot.


OP is not top of his class. He couldn't get into honors programs with presumably not good grades.

OP, I know you said you're not interested in this, but if you reaaaally want biglaw and want to be positive about it, clerkship is in fact the way to go. You might not be competitive for a clerkship now, but after a year at a firm, you might be. Once you score the clerkship, that will open more opportunities for you. So there is hope. Sorry I wasn't more positive before.

like what, a state trial clerkship or something? in what universe is a clerkship easier to get than a biglaw job?


Lol, in this universe? Quite a bit of people get Art. III clerkships after not getting SAs.

I don't think that proves your point, though.

An Art. III clerkship, on average, is definitely harder than securing a biglaw job.


I still disagree, specially for students in top schools and good ranking.

None of these matters though because OP doesn't want to clerk and he may not even have the grades for it. I was trying to be a bit positive. But that's cool, let's just all agree OP is doomed for life instead.

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:12 pm

Getting an AIII clerkship probably is harder, but hiring is enough less predictable, and also has a bigger window (you can apply later with better grades/as an alum with work experience) that people who strike out at OCI can get clerkships, and a given candidate may have an easier time with judges than with biglaw. The problem is that if you weren't an appealing candidate for biglaw before the clerkship you may not be much more appealing after, but more experience and more time to line up something longer-term is always better than less.

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby zot1 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:21 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Getting an AIII clerkship probably is harder, but hiring is enough less predictable, and also has a bigger window (you can apply later with better grades/as an alum with work experience) that people who strike out at OCI can get clerkships, and a given candidate may have an easier time with judges than with biglaw. The problem is that if you weren't an appealing candidate for biglaw before the clerkship you may not be much more appealing after, but more experience and more time to line up something longer-term is always better than less.


I get that last part, but I do know more than a handful of people who struck out who got clerkships. Although most of those people come from my school, a few come from other top California law schools.

FWIW, at least two of those people were definitely never gonna get biglaw.

So how about I narrow this to, *in my experience...*? Either way I don't think any of these would help OP more than a higher class standing.

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:44 pm

OP here,

Way to turn this thread into AIII. Think about it AIII is not suited for me. Hell top 15% at a T4 that is somewhere in rankings around Cooley. Let's be real. Big law maybe but again hard as fuck.

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:38 pm

edit double post sorry
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RaceJudicata

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby RaceJudicata » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here,

Way to turn this thread into AIII. Think about it AIII is not suited for me. Hell top 15% at a T4 that is somewhere in rankings around Cooley. Let's be real. Big law maybe but again hard as fuck.


You asked for the advice, no?

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here,

Way to turn this thread into AIII. Think about it AIII is not suited for me. Hell top 15% at a T4 that is somewhere in rankings around Cooley. Let's be real. Big law maybe but again hard as fuck.


I transferred myself and got mid-law in my home market during OCI. But from people I saw lateral into biglaw after transferring this is what I found happened. Although this is extremely rare. I transferred from T1 in a neighboring state to a Vandy/WUSTL/ND that is in my home market. My T1 had transfers who found biglaw/midlaw through a few different ways.

1. AIII in a flyover district court (e.g. Youngstown Ohio) and then to biglaw/midlaw firm in said region (which would generally be their hometown).
2. If you have accounting background or get lucky you work at a Big4 and lateral into biglaw/midlaw.
3. Work in midlaw (which where I'm from is sometimes more difficult to get than biglaw because of better hours) and lateral into biglaw.
4. Religiously check symplicity and find some biglaw/midlaw firm posting. I know this happened to one of my friends and it was based in the state they are from (Midwest).
5. Religiously check symplicity, get lucky and offered a job in-house (e.g. insurance company, bank), and lateral to biglaw. (rare)

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby JusticeJackson » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:05 pm

.
Last edited by JusticeJackson on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:41 am

OP: What drew you to law in the first place? What did you envision yourself doing when you applied to law school?

It's going to be really difficult to get biglaw without a SA and you seem to have closed yourself to the only path that might reasonably get you there (clerkship in a smaller market). So what else do you want to do?

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby 1styearlateral » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:26 am

You can lateral into biglaw from a small/midsized firm if you find a niche. If you're trying to lateral in corporate it's probably unlikely, but specific litigation experience with a need to fill is doable.

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:07 pm

1styearlateral wrote:You can lateral into biglaw from a small/midsized firm if you find a niche. If you're trying to lateral in corporate it's probably unlikely, but specific litigation experience with a need to fill is doable.


Not OP but why do you say it's unlikely for corporate?
I know one reason why it's more difficult is because there aren't as many smaller shops that do corporate work, so you wouldn't be able to get a position in the first place. But once you are able to break into the field by working at a small/midsize firm doing this work, is it still more difficult than litigation to move over to biglaw?

For example, if you can get into a "niche" area corporate work in a smaller firm (ie: real estate transactions, startup/emerging companies, bankruptcy, etc.), would it be still be difficult to move to a bigger firm?

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:42 am

It's common in patent prosecution.

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby 1styearlateral » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:You can lateral into biglaw from a small/midsized firm if you find a niche. If you're trying to lateral in corporate it's probably unlikely, but specific litigation experience with a need to fill is doable.


Not OP but why do you say it's unlikely for corporate?
I know one reason why it's more difficult is because there aren't as many smaller shops that do corporate work, so you wouldn't be able to get a position in the first place. But once you are able to break into the field by working at a small/midsize firm doing this work, is it still more difficult than litigation to move over to biglaw?

For example, if you can get into a "niche" area corporate work in a smaller firm (ie: real estate transactions, startup/emerging companies, bankruptcy, etc.), would it be still be difficult to move to a bigger firm?

I would say so only because corporate seems to put a lot of weight on the Vault number. I know people in my lit department who have moved onto larger midsized firms or biglaw. It's not common but it happens.

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby Magic Hat » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:19 am

For whatever it's worth I know of several mid level associates who got into a good midlaw firm and recently lateraled to lower v100 biglaw. All were t1 and were excellent in their chosen practice areas. 3 were corporate and 2 were lit (emphasis on labor).

Good luck.

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby shaopeng9 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here,

Way to turn this thread into AIII. Think about it AIII is not suited for me. Hell top 15% at a T4 that is somewhere in rankings around Cooley. Let's be real. Big law maybe but again hard as fuck.


I transferred myself and got mid-law in my home market during OCI. But from people I saw lateral into biglaw after transferring this is what I found happened. Although this is extremely rare. I transferred from T1 in a neighboring state to a Vandy/WUSTL/ND that is in my home market. My T1 had transfers who found biglaw/midlaw through a few different ways.

1. AIII in a flyover district court (e.g. Youngstown Ohio) and then to biglaw/midlaw firm in said region (which would generally be their hometown).
2. If you have accounting background or get lucky you work at a Big4 and lateral into biglaw/midlaw.
3. Work in midlaw (which where I'm from is sometimes more difficult to get than biglaw because of better hours) and lateral into biglaw.
4. Religiously check symplicity and find some biglaw/midlaw firm posting. I know this happened to one of my friends and it was based in the state they are from (Midwest).
5. Religiously check symplicity, get lucky and offered a job in-house (e.g. insurance company, bank), and lateral to biglaw. (rare)


Something you said applies to me directly. Any chance you can PM me?

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:18 am

Similar to the person above, I transferred from a T50 school to a T25 school. I graduated 1-2 years after the great recession. I had top 15% grades from a T25 school and I was barely able to get a midlaw job in a flyover city.

After 2 years I was able to get 2 offers at lower V100 firms and also decent paying inhouse job.

It is definitely possible if you get experience at a respectable mid law firm. Many of my friends also had similar experiences by starting at small/medium firms and eventually moving up. With exception to 1 friend who had downright awful grades but managed to snag biglaw after moving around to a extremely desirable fedgov job, most of my friends who moved from midlaw to biglaw had good to great grades (top 1/3 from a T25 school).

With that said, you need to be in a practice group that is somewhat in demand and not slow.

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:22 pm

I graduated at median from a t20 school. Managed to lateral to biglaw 3 years out, but agreed to take a class year "hit" (i.e. I took the salary band of someone who graduated a year after me). I found it to be extremely difficult not only because of grades, but also lack of "big firm" experience. I've had friends who have had a much easier time going from smaller firms to big insurance defense firms... but that wasn't the kind of work I was interested in.

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Re: How easy is it to Lateral/Backdoor Entrance into BigLaw?

Postby shock259 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:32 pm

There's a few people at my firm that came from smaller firms. Most are mid levels (3-5th years), and all are specialty types of practices (environmental, IP, ERISA, etc.). Obviously your experience will need to line up very closely to what you will be getting into, which is going to be very difficult to do coming from a smaller firm.

As folks have said, no harm in continuing to gun for it. But I would focus more on getting your first job for now. If you do that and enjoy it, voila - no need for big law.



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