Taking a week off during SA?

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dixiecupdrinking

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:25 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:(I love that apparently no one here has actually encountered a wedding thrown by family that involved any work by the family.)

I, at least, am discounting that aspect of this because OP only brought it up after people suggested taking a week off was unnecessary. Seems like an after the fact rationalization. If it was presented originally as "my sister needs me there all week to have her wedding go smoothly," I'd have a slightly different reaction.

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cron1834

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby cron1834 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:30 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:(I love that apparently no one here has actually encountered a wedding thrown by family that involved any work by the family.)

I, at least, am discounting that aspect of this because OP only brought it up after people suggested taking a week off was unnecessary. Seems like an after the fact rationalization. If it was presented originally as "my sister needs me there all week to have her wedding go smoothly," I'd have a slightly different reaction.

Agreed.

But even if not, none of this changes the fact that this isn't a 100% offer firm, and there are only 7 at the office. It would probably be fine, but at a less than 100% offer firm I wouldn't mess around.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:33 pm

cron1834 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:(I love that apparently no one here has actually encountered a wedding thrown by family that involved any work by the family.)

I've gone to siblings' weddings. I did some things, but if I had a conflicting 10 week job interview that shaped my career path, they'd have been reasonable enough to understand that I can't be setting up folding chairs. Come on Nony.

Yet again, I totally understand why (some) people say the OP *shouldn't* do this (others say it would be fine), but I don't get the "lol/bullshit" response to the very *idea* that helping out at the wedding is important to someone/their family (and maybe more important than in yours? Keep in mind the OP hasn't come back and said "but I *have* to be at the wedding three days early!!!", they were just asking. I don't think it's fair to expect them to be fully assimilated into biglaw work mode groupthink yet).

And last thing, to be clear, I'm not criticizing any of the actual advice.

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cron1834

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby cron1834 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:57 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:(I love that apparently no one here has actually encountered a wedding thrown by family that involved any work by the family.)

I've gone to siblings' weddings. I did some things, but if I had a conflicting 10 week job interview that shaped my career path, they'd have been reasonable enough to understand that I can't be setting up folding chairs. Come on Nony.

Yet again, I totally understand why (some) people say the OP *shouldn't* do this (others say it would be fine), but I don't get the "lol/bullshit" response to the very *idea* that helping out at the wedding is important to someone/their family (and maybe more important than in yours? Keep in mind the OP hasn't come back and said "but I *have* to be at the wedding three days early!!!", they were just asking. I don't think it's fair to expect them to be fully assimilated into biglaw work mode groupthink yet).

And last thing, to be clear, I'm not criticizing any of the actual advice.

Well, you don't need to be a biglaw partner to know that your SA is important, and basic math would tell you a week out of 10 seems like a big chunk. I agree that there's nothing wrong with OP simply asking TLS, but helping for a week would be a considerable stretch and doesn't sound realistic, based on my experience (as I said, I've helped at siblings' weddings).

I get that some people have more powerful family ties/obligations that others. But even tight families shouldn't ask for a week when your career path is on the line.

Again, if this were (say) DPW-NYC I'd probably say screw it. But at this firm, I'd save the week-long asks for things that are actually necessary.

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AVBucks4239

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby AVBucks4239 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:05 pm

Edit...double post...
Last edited by AVBucks4239 on Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AVBucks4239

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby AVBucks4239 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:06 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:(I love that apparently no one here has actually encountered a wedding thrown by family that involved any work by the family.)

Come on man. I'm getting married next May. My mom has taken our engagement pictures and is very involved with the wedding photographer we hired. My twin brother is making the cookies for the cookie table (which is apparently only a Cleveland/Pittsburgh area thing that the rest of the country should probably discover). My older brother is building stuff for the reception hall. My dad and his wife are doing basically everything for the rehearsal dinner. Another friend is making homemade candles for centerpieces.

And I would never ask any of them to take three days off work to help out--let alone if that was during what is basically a ten week job interview.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:12 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:(I love that apparently no one here has actually encountered a wedding thrown by family that involved any work by the family.)

Come on man. I'm getting married next May. My mom has taken our engagement pictures and is very involved with the wedding photographer we hired. My twin brother is making the cookies for the cookie table (which is apparently only a Cleveland/Pittsburgh area thing that the rest of the country should probably discover). My older brother is building stuff for the reception hall. My dad and his wife are doing basically everything for the rehearsal dinner. Another friend is making homemade candles for centerpieces.

And I would never ask any of them to take three days off work to help out--let alone if that was during what is basically a ten week job interview.

I mean, that's nice, but asking your family to do that and someone in your family wanting to do that aren't the same thing. People aren't born knowing what the expectations of biglaw are. Snarking that they want to "play house" was rude.

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EzraFitz

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby EzraFitz » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:16 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
AVBucks4239 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:(I love that apparently no one here has actually encountered a wedding thrown by family that involved any work by the family.)

Come on man. I'm getting married next May. My mom has taken our engagement pictures and is very involved with the wedding photographer we hired. My twin brother is making the cookies for the cookie table (which is apparently only a Cleveland/Pittsburgh area thing that the rest of the country should probably discover). My older brother is building stuff for the reception hall. My dad and his wife are doing basically everything for the rehearsal dinner. Another friend is making homemade candles for centerpieces.

And I would never ask any of them to take three days off work to help out--let alone if that was during what is basically a ten week job interview.

I mean, that's nice, but asking your family to do that and someone in your family wanting to do that aren't the same thing. People aren't born knowing what the expectations of biglaw are. Snarking that they want to "play house" was rude.

I agree with Nony, and also keep in mind that you're assuming the family would be asking OP to take the time off, when really it seems like OP just wanted to be there to help out if they could. The brunt of the advice seems to be that it's not worth it, and OP accepted that. I just don't understand the animosity towards someone wanting to help out. I just attended a wedding where I wasn't related or even in the wedding party, and ended up helping set up stuff at the reception hall for 15 hours over two days because none of the bride or groom's families could come out early to help out. DIY weddings can be a huge undertaking for that many people.

All that said, I concur with the majority opinion as to taking off as few days as possible but not missing any wedding events.

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:03 pm

The snark is because biglaw conditions you to prioritize work to a greater degree than most jobs. To many people at law firms, taking a week to help out with a family wedding will strike them as juvenile or naive, because they would never consider doing it themselves. While there's no need to be rude to OP about it, I do think the tone of the responses should be instructive to OP about how people might react to the request.

I've heard senior lawyers who I otherwise like making snide comments about associates being unavailable at very reasonable times (e.g., after 9 pm or on weekends with no notice) due to family commitments. Their attitude is, I had to sacrifice that stuff to get where I am so you should too. It's toxic but it's a reality.

ballouttacontrol

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:59 am

Since the 4th is on Tuesday, if I were you I'd probably go in on Monday and then take off. Then you're really only taking off Weds-Fri, which is pretty reasonable for a sister's wedding imo. This would 100% be nbd at my firm

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:33 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:Since the 4th is on Tuesday, if I were you I'd probably go in on Monday and then take off. Then you're really only taking off Weds-Fri, which is pretty reasonable for a sister's wedding imo. This would 100% be nbd at my firm


Yep. This is a good compromise.

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:08 pm

I took two days off to play in a video game tournament. You should be fine.

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EzraFitz

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby EzraFitz » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:11 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:The snark is because biglaw conditions you to prioritize work to a greater degree than most jobs. To many people at law firms, taking a week to help out with a family wedding will strike them as juvenile or naive, because they would never consider doing it themselves. While there's no need to be rude to OP about it, I do think the tone of the responses should be instructive to OP about how people might react to the request.

I've heard senior lawyers who I otherwise like making snide comments about associates being unavailable at very reasonable times (e.g., after 9 pm or on weekends with no notice) due to family commitments. Their attitude is, I had to sacrifice that stuff to get where I am so you should too. It's toxic but it's a reality.


This is definitely unfortunately toxic, but also is a pretty good indicator of a firm that someone should really think hard about before joining.

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wiseowl

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby wiseowl » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:35 am

Tough spot, OP. Most firms except for the worst of the worst are going to be ghost towns on Monday, July 3rd, so even if you delay your plans you almost certainly aren't going to be missing much. And it will undoubtedly skyrocket your travel costs.

Might be worth confirming that you aren't missing some huge firm social event on the 4th. If for some reason that's a big deal for your firm you might not want to skip that.

Hell, I'm a 5th year associate and I have a family wedding on New Years Day, so I'm taking the whole week off between Christmas and New Years and I'm still a little nervous about it. If I were in your position I think I'd consider leaving Wed at lunch and getting an early afternoon Eastern time flight from NY to SF. That's about as good as you can do.

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elendinel

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby elendinel » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:06 am

I'd consider waiting until the 4th, and taking off the 5-7th. Then it looks like you're only taking three days off, instead of "a week" off (which is silly because it'll be a difference of a day, but optics are everything).

Or, see if they'll let you work remotely/work on the 4th; if they will, fly out the 5th-10th/6th-10th (earlier if remote work is possible), because flying home the Sunday of your sister's wedding is going to suck.

Or see if there's someone around who you can ask, to see which option would be preferable. What you should do is really up to your particular firm; maybe they'll be 100% okay with it, and maybe they won't understand why you'd be going to the rehearsal dinner at all. What they say will also help you learn what kind of firm they'll be, and if they're the kind of people who will try to force you to miss your own wedding, or if they're the kind of people who have the same philosophy on family.

As long as you're not going to take off any other time/haven't taken off any time already, this should end up being a non-issue.

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:03 pm

On a scale of TLS snark/meanness the play house with mom and dad thing was like a 3/10

OP- 2 days off, max, is reasonable. But going for anything more than that is a pretty serious lapse in judgment. IMO.

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby Voyager » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My sister is getting married July 9th, and I'll have to leave Wednesday (Working in NYC and have to fly to SF) to make it for the rehearsal dinner. I'm suspecting I'll have that Monday off because of July 4th. Think I'll have a problem just asking for the week off instead of just going to work on Tuesday and flying out the next morning?

When should I tell the firm, I haven't told the recruiter yet I'll need to leave for my sisters wedding.


Dude. GO TO YOUR SISTERS'S WEDDING! You will hate yourself forever if you don't.

Law firms are shitty horrible places and you don't want to sacrifice an event like that for such a crappy employer.

Also, virtually everyone at the firm will completely understand, barring the odd psycho or 2.

Just be very upfront with everyone at the firm about the dates so no one sets deadlines you can't meet because of it.

No Sr. Associate I know at any firm would be upset at you for doing this. None of the partners I know either. It's your sister's wedding, for Christ's sake.

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cron1834

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby cron1834 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:17 pm

Voyager wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My sister is getting married July 9th, and I'll have to leave Wednesday (Working in NYC and have to fly to SF) to make it for the rehearsal dinner. I'm suspecting I'll have that Monday off because of July 4th. Think I'll have a problem just asking for the week off instead of just going to work on Tuesday and flying out the next morning?

When should I tell the firm, I haven't told the recruiter yet I'll need to leave for my sisters wedding.


Dude. GO TO YOUR SISTERS'S WEDDING! You will hate yourself forever if you don't.

Law firms are shitty horrible places and you don't want to sacrifice an event like that for such a crappy employer.

Also, virtually everyone at the firm will completely understand, barring the odd psycho or 2.

Just be very upfront with everyone at the firm about the dates so no one sets deadlines you can't meet because of it.

No Sr. Associate I know at any firm would be upset at you for doing this. None of the partners I know either. It's your sister's wedding, for Christ's sake.

No one is suggesting that op not go to the wedding at all. The issue is taking more than a couple days off for it, which seems like overkill and unnecessarily risky to most of us.

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kalvano

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby kalvano » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:45 pm

Man, this thread just keeps going.

If I were in OP's shoes, I would work Monday, do whatever the firm norm is for the 4th, and ask for W-F off for a family wedding. That doesn't seem unreasonable.

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby Voyager » Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:12 pm

kalvano wrote:Man, this thread just keeps going.

If I were in OP's shoes, I would work Monday, do whatever the firm norm is for the 4th, and ask for W-F off for a family wedding. That doesn't seem unreasonable.


Sounds right to me.

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cron1834

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby cron1834 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:18 pm

Voyager wrote:
kalvano wrote:Man, this thread just keeps going.

If I were in OP's shoes, I would work Monday, do whatever the firm norm is for the 4th, and ask for W-F off for a family wedding. That doesn't seem unreasonable.


Sounds right to me.

OP, ask for this and report back :D

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:02 pm

wiseowl wrote:Tough spot, OP. Most firms except for the worst of the worst are going to be ghost towns on Monday, July 3rd, so even if you delay your plans you almost certainly aren't going to be missing much. And it will undoubtedly skyrocket your travel costs.

Might be worth confirming that you aren't missing some huge firm social event on the 4th. If for some reason that's a big deal for your firm you might not want to skip that.

Hell, I'm a 5th year associate and I have a family wedding on New Years Day, so I'm taking the whole week off between Christmas and New Years and I'm still a little nervous about it. If I were in your position I think I'd consider leaving Wed at lunch and getting an early afternoon Eastern time flight from NY to SF. That's about as good as you can do.


Why would you be nervous about taking a week vacation between Christmas and New Years? People at my firm do this all the time, the office is a ghost town.

RaceJudicata

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby RaceJudicata » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:18 pm

How on earth is this thread still going...

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ArtistOfManliness

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Re: Taking a week off during SA?

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:40 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:How on earth is this thread still going...


I came here to ask the same question.

Maybe we are the problem.



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