just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

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ballouttacontrol

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just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:26 pm

Last week.. new personal record. I'm a first yr. But that fukin sucked there is no way I could do that too often

our billable req is only 1800 tho so at least theres that

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ArtistOfManliness

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:28 pm

Cool story bro, tell it again.

ballouttacontrol

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:39 pm

ArtistOfManliness wrote:Cool story bro, tell it again.


Yea? blow me cuz

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cron1834

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby cron1834 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:33 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:
ArtistOfManliness wrote:Cool story bro, tell it again.


Yea? blow me cuz

Well, he had a point, OP... do you have one?

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kellyfrost

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby kellyfrost » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:39 pm

ArtistOfManliness wrote:Cool story bro, tell it again.


\ :roll:
Last edited by kellyfrost on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ballouttacontrol

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:52 pm

cron1834 wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:
ArtistOfManliness wrote:Cool story bro, tell it again.


Yea? blow me cuz

Well, he had a point, OP... do you have one?


that it sucked really hard. i'd probs quit if I had to do that regularly

feel free to go back to ignore and go back to the other 500 threads about neurotic 2Ls choosing between V24 and V36 and whether they will get no offered for getting a B-

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elendinel

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby elendinel » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:29 pm

That just seems like an extremely unremarkable thing to remark about, even for pros.

Not that I don't get the pain, but...*shrug*.

mecarey

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby mecarey » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:39 pm

Actually somewhat curious about this if you're still willing to share despite the other replies.

70 hours definitely seems like a lot to bill - what would you say your efficiency rate was on that? Were you able to bill 70 hours out of 70 in the office, or is there a bit of downtime in there? Is a high efficiency rate on your billing typical for you and others that you know who do patent pros? About how many hours a week do you find you're in the office / how long is your average day to stay on track with 1800?

Thanks in advance.

ballouttacontrol

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:58 pm

elendinel wrote:That just seems like an extremely unremarkable thing to remark about, even for pros.

Not that I don't get the pain, but...*shrug*.


idk it felt out of the ordinary for me bro. i don't think ppl here work those hrs that often but its hard to really tell since everyone is gone by 5:30 but work at home. is this common for u?
Last edited by ballouttacontrol on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ballouttacontrol

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:14 pm

mecarey wrote:Actually somewhat curious about this if you're still willing to share despite the other replies.

70 hours definitely seems like a lot to bill - what would you say your efficiency rate was on that? Were you able to bill 70 hours out of 70 in the office, or is there a bit of downtime in there? Is a high efficiency rate on your billing typical for you and others that you know who do patent pros? About how many hours a week do you find you're in the office / how long is your average day to stay on track with 1800?

Thanks in advance.


yea sure.,

what u mean by efficiency rate? Like, personally, my hours in the office? Or what will my efficiency ultimately be after write offs on the bill? If the former, I work pretty consistently 9-5, sometimes take an hour for lunch out of the office. Maybe lose a half hour to an hour here or there over the course of the day for stuff like watching football highlights from yesterday or wtv. When it comes to crunch time up on due dates I'm roughly 100% efficient. if you meant the latter, I frankly have no idea, as a 1st year, my time does get written down sometimes but I don't feel I really have any control over that. I don't feel like I typically bill that much more than expected of me, but the budgets can be pretty low sometimes and everyone from partners to 1st years takes haircuts on the bill sometimes (or so we're told)

w/r/t It also depends on my assignments. If I'm drafting a fresh application dealing with difficult subject matter I'm definitely taking a short break maybe every hour. That shit makes my head hurt. Wayyyy more mentally taxing than when I used to do lit.

Being efficient on the bill is important, patent pros budgets are not high so bloated bills will be quickly noticed. But in terms of how efficient u are in the office it definitely varies between people. Some ppl are robots and can grind it out, some ppl take more coffee breaks.

Personally, me on the 70 hr week was (Mon,Tue,W,Th,F,Sat): 8.1, 10.7, 6.4, 15, 12.2, 14.2, and off Sunday. In practice, Mon and Weds were pretty much 9-5ish, maybe a little longer on Monday. Weds was like 9-9pm. Thurs was about 8am-3am but left the office to have dinner with my gf, but then went back. Friday and Saturday was an all nighter: 9am to 8pm or so, hung out with the gf for a few hours at home in the evening, worked a couple hours at home maybe 11pm-1am, decided I would work better in the office, so went back in, and worked from about 1:30am to 1 or 2pm.

As should be evident from my making this thread to bitch about it, this is not my typical week.

gregfootball2001

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby gregfootball2001 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:31 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:I work pretty consistently 9-5, sometimes take an hour for lunch out of the office.
. . . .
me on the 70 hr week was (Mon,Tue,W,Th,F,Sat): 8.1, 10.7, 6.4, 15, 12.2, 14.2, and off Sunday.
. . . .
Mon and Weds were pretty much 9-5ish, maybe a little longer on Monday. Weds was like 9-9pm. Thurs was about 8am-3am but left the office to have dinner with my gf, but then went back. Friday and Saturday was an all nighter: 9am to 8pm or so, hung out with the gf for a few hours at home in the evening, worked a couple hours at home maybe 11pm-1am, decided I would work better in the office, so went back in, and worked from about 1:30am to 1 or 2pm.

By efficiency rate, he means the number of billed hours to worked hours. For example, on Wednesday, you worked for 12 hours (9 am to 9 pm) and billed 6.4 hours. That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.

Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.

mecarey

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby mecarey » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:47 pm

gregfootball2001 wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:I work pretty consistently 9-5, sometimes take an hour for lunch out of the office.
. . . .
me on the 70 hr week was (Mon,Tue,W,Th,F,Sat): 8.1, 10.7, 6.4, 15, 12.2, 14.2, and off Sunday.
. . . .
Mon and Weds were pretty much 9-5ish, maybe a little longer on Monday. Weds was like 9-9pm. Thurs was about 8am-3am but left the office to have dinner with my gf, but then went back. Friday and Saturday was an all nighter: 9am to 8pm or so, hung out with the gf for a few hours at home in the evening, worked a couple hours at home maybe 11pm-1am, decided I would work better in the office, so went back in, and worked from about 1:30am to 1 or 2pm.

By efficiency rate, he means the number of billed hours to worked hours. For example, on Wednesday, you worked for 12 hours (9 am to 9 pm) and billed 6.4 hours. That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.

Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.


Exactly - this is what I meant by efficiency rate (hours billed / hours worked). I was asking because I'm heading into the world of patents for the foreseeable future, and I like to hear other peoples' experiences so I can gauge how things will go. Very helpful response - thanks for replying!

mecarey

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby mecarey » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:48 pm

gregfootball2001 wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:I work pretty consistently 9-5, sometimes take an hour for lunch out of the office.
. . . .
me on the 70 hr week was (Mon,Tue,W,Th,F,Sat): 8.1, 10.7, 6.4, 15, 12.2, 14.2, and off Sunday.
. . . .
Mon and Weds were pretty much 9-5ish, maybe a little longer on Monday. Weds was like 9-9pm. Thurs was about 8am-3am but left the office to have dinner with my gf, but then went back. Friday and Saturday was an all nighter: 9am to 8pm or so, hung out with the gf for a few hours at home in the evening, worked a couple hours at home maybe 11pm-1am, decided I would work better in the office, so went back in, and worked from about 1:30am to 1 or 2pm.

By efficiency rate, he means the number of billed hours to worked hours. For example, on Wednesday, you worked for 12 hours (9 am to 9 pm) and billed 6.4 hours. That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.

Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.


Exactly - this is what I meant by efficiency rate (hours billed / hours worked). I was asking because I'm heading into the world of patents for the foreseeable future, and I like to hear other peoples' experiences so I can gauge how things will go. Very helpful response - thanks for replying!

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p1921

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby p1921 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:54 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like as a first year, this seems reasonable for drafting one of your first applications, plus some extra work built in (responding to office actions, etc.). My impression has been that people generally start out pretty inefficiently and get better at it quickly. So what took you 70 billable hours would be more like 40 or 50 in a few years once you're more experienced and better at it.

I don't mean to imply that you suck or whatever, just that from what patent attorneys have told there's a pretty steep learning curve for drafting applications. This only get worse if you get a technology you're completely unfamiliar with.

ballouttacontrol

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:55 pm

gregfootball2001 wrote:That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.

Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.


theeeeeeeeeeeeeee...... chill bro they were both just guesses. my typical non-busy day is like 9-5:15 so based on my timesheet I guessed that's what it was for those days.

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elendinel

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby elendinel » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:23 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:
elendinel wrote:That just seems like an extremely unremarkable thing to remark about, even for pros.

Not that I don't get the pain, but...*shrug*.


idk it felt out of the ordinary for me bro. i don't think ppl here work those hrs that often but its hard to really tell since everyone is gone by 5:30 but work at home. is this common for u?


Common? No. But has it happened (or has it been worse)? Definitely. Usually at the end of quarters/years (if you're on bigger clients), but sometimes deadlines pile up. It's not necessarily all 9-6, bill 7-8 hours a day.

ballouttacontrol

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:14 pm

mecarey wrote:
gregfootball2001 wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:I work pretty consistently 9-5, sometimes take an hour for lunch out of the office.
. . . .
me on the 70 hr week was (Mon,Tue,W,Th,F,Sat): 8.1, 10.7, 6.4, 15, 12.2, 14.2, and off Sunday.
. . . .
Mon and Weds were pretty much 9-5ish, maybe a little longer on Monday. Weds was like 9-9pm. Thurs was about 8am-3am but left the office to have dinner with my gf, but then went back. Friday and Saturday was an all nighter: 9am to 8pm or so, hung out with the gf for a few hours at home in the evening, worked a couple hours at home maybe 11pm-1am, decided I would work better in the office, so went back in, and worked from about 1:30am to 1 or 2pm.

By efficiency rate, he means the number of billed hours to worked hours. For example, on Wednesday, you worked for 12 hours (9 am to 9 pm) and billed 6.4 hours. That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.

Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.


Exactly - this is what I meant by efficiency rate (hours billed / hours worked). I was asking because I'm heading into the world of patents for the foreseeable future, and I like to hear other peoples' experiences so I can gauge how things will go. Very helpful response - thanks for replying!


yw

ballouttacontrol

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:23 pm

p1921 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like as a first year, this seems reasonable for drafting one of your first applications, plus some extra work built in (responding to office actions, etc.). My impression has been that people generally start out pretty inefficiently and get better at it quickly. So what took you 70 billable hours would be more like 40 or 50 in a few years once you're more experienced and better at it.

I don't mean to imply that you suck or whatever, just that from what patent attorneys have told there's a pretty steep learning curve for drafting applications. This only get worse if you get a technology you're completely unfamiliar with.


we don't typically have one person take an application from start to finish, and yea I had/have about 5 applications at various stages and 4 office actions which contributed to that 70 hrs. But yea I agree that I'll certainly get faster at what I do. But then they can load you with more work. So idkayyyyy we'll see!

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby mvp99 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:26 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:
gregfootball2001 wrote:That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.

Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.


theeeeeeeeeeeeeee...... chill bro they were both just guesses. my typical non-busy day is like 9-5:15 so based on my timesheet I guessed that's what it was for those days.

Isn't this possible when the firm's policy is to bill .10 hours for emails or call?

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby kalvano » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:24 pm

mvp99 wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:
gregfootball2001 wrote:That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.

Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.


theeeeeeeeeeeeeee...... chill bro they were both just guesses. my typical non-busy day is like 9-5:15 so based on my timesheet I guessed that's what it was for those days.

Isn't this possible when the firm's policy is to bill .10 hours for emails or call?


Some firms don't do that?

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:18 am

mvp99 wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:
gregfootball2001 wrote:That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.

Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.


theeeeeeeeeeeeeee...... chill bro they were both just guesses. my typical non-busy day is like 9-5:15 so based on my timesheet I guessed that's what it was for those days.

Isn't this possible when the firm's policy is to bill .10 hours for emails or call?

It's possible under any policy where you round up if you're working on a number of different tasks/matters. If you work on a brief for an hour and 31 minutes, take an 8 minute call, and draft discovery responses for 31 minutes, you've already billed 2.4 hours in 2.17 actual hours.

Usually people aren't efficient enough to get to this kind of result though.



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