Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

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Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:40 pm

I am a gay, midlevel associate at a V100/200 firm in one of the major Southern cities. The firm has about 400 attorneys, but the firm does not have any LGBTQ attorneys (at least according to NALP). Most of the partners in my section are conservative Republicans and don't hide their leanings. All the associates in my group (except for me) are married and have at least one kid. I've been at the firm for 3 years and the partners liked working with me, my work product, and my hours. I have enjoyed working at the firm, but it has been awkward being the only single person in my section, especially when a lot of the out of work events involve families or spouses.

A few weeks ago, I attended a LGBTQ bar association function. A local magazine was taking pictures at the event and some of those pictures ended up on their website. Since those pictures were published, the partners have been avoiding me and my work is starting to slow down. None of the partners have spoken to me about the pictures, but a lot of the associates in my firm told me they saw the pictures.

I don't think I am in danger of immediately getting fired, but I am definitely getting the cold shoulder by the partners and my work flow is slowing down a lot. I have been working with a couple recruiters, but there are not a lot of job opportunities for my practice/class year. Additionally, none of the more progressive firms in my area appear to be hiring.

Should I continue relying on the recruiters or start applying on my own? If I send cover letters to those "progressive firms", what should I say in the letter regarding why I want to leave my current firm?

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zot1

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby zot1 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:47 pm

Apply to everything.

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Desert Fox

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:48 pm

Do not shittalk your old firm in cover letters or interviews. It's a big red flag. Just make up a good positive reason for wanting the new firm.

Sorry this is happening to you.

Maybe join https://m.facebook.com/LGBTrump /s
Last edited by Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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CaptainJapan

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby CaptainJapan » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am a gay, midlevel associate at a V100/200 firm in one of the major Southern cities. The firm has about 400 attorneys, but the firm does not have any LGBTQ attorneys (at least according to NALP). Most of the partners in my section are conservative Republicans and don't hide their leanings. All the associates in my group (except for me) are married and have at least one kid. I've been at the firm for 3 years and the partners liked working with me, my work product, and my hours. I have enjoyed working at the firm, but it has been awkward being the only single person in my section, especially when a lot of the out of work events involve families or spouses.

A few weeks ago, I attended a LGBTQ bar association function. A local magazine was taking pictures at the event and some of those pictures ended up on their website. Since those pictures were published, the partners have been avoiding me and my work is starting to slow down. None of the partners have spoken to me about the pictures, but a lot of the associates in my firm told me they saw the pictures.

I don't think I am in danger of immediately getting fired, but I am definitely getting the cold shoulder by the partners and my work flow is slowing down a lot. I have been working with a couple recruiters, but there are not a lot of job opportunities for my practice/class year. Additionally, none of the more progressive firms in my area appear to be hiring.

Should I continue relying on the recruiters or start applying on my own? If I send cover letters to those "progressive firms", what should I say in the letter regarding why I want to leave my current firm?



I obviously don't know your firm but this sounds like quite a leap to make based on business slowing down after being outed...I mean this in a totally non-sarcastic way, have you considered for a moment that you're imagining something that isn't there?

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby bearsfan23 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:51 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Do not shittalk your old firm in cover letters or interviews. It's a big red flag. Just make up a good positive reason for wanting the new firm.

Sorry this is happening to you.

Maybe join https://m.facebook.com/LGBTrump /s


:lol:

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:02 pm

You don't need to explain your reasons for leaving in a cover letter.

"Hi, my name is Joe. I want this position, and I think I'm qualified because ___. I want to be at your firm in particular because ___. Thank you for your consideration."

If asked in an interview, just say something like "I'm just looking for a firm that does [something good about firm where you're interviewing]; I know [firm] does [thing] a lot, and I [respect/love/whatever] that they do it." Even if they press, just keep insisting it's not because this firm is bad, and is purely because of how great the interviewing firm is.

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Prana-9 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You don't need to explain your reasons for leaving in a cover letter.

"Hi, my name is Joe. I want this position, and I think I'm qualified because ___. I want to be at your firm in particular because ___. Thank you for your consideration."

If asked in an interview, just say something like "I'm just looking for a firm that does [something good about firm where you're interviewing]; I know [firm] does [thing] a lot, and I [respect/love/whatever] that they do it." Even if they press, just keep insisting it's not because this firm is bad, and is purely because of how great the interviewing firm is.


This.

Many, if not most, of my law school friends have switched firms after 2-3 years working in prior firm. It's nothing to be concerned.

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Borhas » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:45 pm

maybe also start documenting everything, they'll probably be good at covering their ass but you don't want to just get soft fired for some bullshit reason like that
Last edited by Borhas on Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MKC

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby MKC » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:50 pm

Borhas wrote:maybe also start documenting everything, they'll probably be good at covering their ass but you don't want to just get soft fired for some bullshit reason like that


I don't know that it'll do him any good. Last I checked sexual orientation wasn't a protected class.
Last edited by MKC on Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Borhas » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:52 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
Borhas wrote:maybe also start documenting everything, they'll probably be good at covering their ass but you don't want to just get soft fired for some bullshit reason like that


I don't know that it'll do him any good. Last I checked sexual orientation wasn't a protected class.


really, that sucks, but maybe it will be by the time he gets fired
Last edited by Borhas on Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby First Offense » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:53 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
Borhas wrote:maybe also start documenting everything, they'll probably be good at covering their ass but you don't want to just get soft fired for some bullshit reason like that


I don't know that it'll do him any good. Last I checked sexual orientation wasn't a protected class.

You know that's short-lived. Should definitely document.

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby zot1 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:57 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
Borhas wrote:maybe also start documenting everything, they'll probably be good at covering their ass but you don't want to just get soft fired for some bullshit reason like that


I don't know that it'll do him any good. Last I checked sexual orientation wasn't a protected class.


Some courts have found it a claim under sex discrimination. Would definitely document.

Winter is Coming

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Winter is Coming » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:12 pm

zot1 wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
Borhas wrote:maybe also start documenting everything, they'll probably be good at covering their ass but you don't want to just get soft fired for some bullshit reason like that


I don't know that it'll do him any good. Last I checked sexual orientation wasn't a protected class.


Some courts have found it a claim under sex discrimination. Would definitely document.


Yeah it's also possible it could be covered under a state or local ordinance, document what you can.

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Phil Brooks » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:18 pm

Delete - see next post.
Last edited by Phil Brooks on Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Phil Brooks » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:21 pm

I am sorry that you work for immature children. Once you find a new job I would either sue the firm or expose it to ATL or some other public forum. What the hell is their problem--are they worried you will "make them gay" or something? This is ridiculous.

patentlitigatrix

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby patentlitigatrix » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:24 pm

My understanding is that sexual orientation protection in employment is state by state, which is completely crazy to me.

On a more practical level, looking for other employment might be a mixed blessing. Covering up who you are has to completely suck.

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zot1

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby zot1 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:39 pm

patentlitigatrix wrote:My understanding is that sexual orientation protection in employment is state by state, which is completely crazy to me.

On a more practical level, looking for other employment might be a mixed blessing. Covering up who you are has to completely suck.


Title VII may apply except in some exceptions.

The employer might be covered, but finding out whether the business qualifies is not simple. I believe you can call EEOC and they ask you questions to determine if it could work.

Some courts and definitely EEOC have prosecuted sexual orientation discrimination under sex discrimination.

Still, I don't see why it would ever be a bad idea to document to CYA.

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Offline » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:18 am

patentlitigatrix wrote:My understanding is that sexual orientation protection in employment is state by state, which is completely crazy to me.

On a more practical level, looking for other employment might be a mixed blessing. Covering up who you are has to completely suck.


This. OP sorry you have to put up with this bullshit. I hope you know those ignorant satanists represent nothing of their alleged faith.

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Mr. Archer

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Mr. Archer » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:49 am

I wouldn't advise trying to publicly shame the firm on a site like ATL unless you're fired without a good reason. If you just leave the firm and believe something was happening without proof, you run the risk of hurting yourself. The firm would figure out it was you trying to shame them, and the legal community is small.

The slowdown in work could have nothing to do with the picture. Have the partners gone periods of time without talking to you before? Has work slowed down before? If you're close with other associates, try to see if they've experienced a slowdown.

Also, you could check your contract about discrimination based on sexual orientation policies.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:39 pm

Contract?

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Mr. Archer

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Mr. Archer » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:49 pm

If sexual orientation discrimination is covered by any state laws, the contract will probably have, or really should have, a statement in it reflecting that the employer doesn't discriminate based on sexual orientation. The statement itself probably wouldn't give any protection, it's just something to check.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:53 pm

I didn't realize most people had contracts.

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Mr. Archer

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby Mr. Archer » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:57 pm

Good point. OP might not have a contract.

shock259

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby shock259 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:49 pm

Definitely could be legimimate but it could also be a coincidence. If you are a paranoid person, definitely feel free to apply other places. But I'd be wary about making too many irreversible steps without something more concrete. Maybe things are just slow.

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Re: Outted at a conservative firm - next steps?

Postby rom10 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:43 am

I wish I had something useful to offer, but sadly I can't bring anything that hasn't already been said. I just wanted to add my voice to those saying that it's horrible you have to deal with this, and I hope things work out well for you. Keep your head up.



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