Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

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abraham559

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Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby abraham559 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:41 pm

I really want to work at a big law firm (at least as big as they can get) in Fresno, CA. But I heard the pay there is really bad. My family is there so I need to find work in Fresno so I can take care of them. Any good law firms that have summer associate's work that will lead to $$$ jobs?? Please help me!

:D

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:47 pm

abraham559 wrote:I really want to work at a big law firm (at least as big as they can get) in Fresno, CA. But I heard the pay there is really bad. My family is there so I need to find work in Fresno so I can take care of them. Any good law firms that have summer associate's work that will lead to $$$ jobs?? Please help me!

:D


The biggest firm in the area is by far McCormick Barstow. Other respected and larger firms in the are are Dowling Aaron and Baker Manock.

abraham559

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby abraham559 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
abraham559 wrote:I really want to work at a big law firm (at least as big as they can get) in Fresno, CA. But I heard the pay there is really bad. My family is there so I need to find work in Fresno so I can take care of them. Any good law firms that have summer associate's work that will lead to $$$ jobs?? Please help me!

:D


The biggest firm in the area is by far McCormick Barstow. Other respected and larger firms in the are are Dowling Aaron and Baker Manock.


I actually interviewed with McCormick and was saddened to hear that their starting salary was about $78,000, which is below half of what I would get compared to most of my fellow Berkeley Law peers who work at bigger law firms for the same number of hours. Does Dowling Aaron or Baker Manock pay anywhere near McCormick? Because their websites say "competitive" salaries but I don't want what's competitive in Fresno lol. Thanks for the help!

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:54 pm

abraham559 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
abraham559 wrote:I really want to work at a big law firm (at least as big as they can get) in Fresno, CA. But I heard the pay there is really bad. My family is there so I need to find work in Fresno so I can take care of them. Any good law firms that have summer associate's work that will lead to $$$ jobs?? Please help me!

:D


The biggest firm in the area is by far McCormick Barstow. Other respected and larger firms in the are are Dowling Aaron and Baker Manock.


I actually interviewed with McCormick and was saddened to hear that their starting salary was about $78,000, which is below half of what I would get compared to most of my fellow Berkeley Law peers who work at bigger law firms for the same number of hours. Does Dowling Aaron or Baker Manock pay anywhere near McCormick? Because their websites say "competitive" salaries but I don't want what's competitive in Fresno lol. Thanks for the help!


McCormick is definitely top of the market in Fresno and I doubt the other two pay more. That is phenomenal money for Fresno, but you won't 180k in the central valley.

abraham559

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby abraham559 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
abraham559 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
abraham559 wrote:I really want to work at a big law firm (at least as big as they can get) in Fresno, CA. But I heard the pay there is really bad. My family is there so I need to find work in Fresno so I can take care of them. Any good law firms that have summer associate's work that will lead to $$$ jobs?? Please help me!

:D


The biggest firm in the area is by far McCormick Barstow. Other respected and larger firms in the are are Dowling Aaron and Baker Manock.


I actually interviewed with McCormick and was saddened to hear that their starting salary was about $78,000, which is below half of what I would get compared to most of my fellow Berkeley Law peers who work at bigger law firms for the same number of hours. Does Dowling Aaron or Baker Manock pay anywhere near McCormick? Because their websites say "competitive" salaries but I don't want what's competitive in Fresno lol. Thanks for the help!


McCormick is definitely top of the market in Fresno and I doubt the other two pay more. That is phenomenal money for Fresno, but you won't 180k in the central valley.


Do you know if such firms will at least work with you? Or let you get more after first year and etc? I don't mind if I start there i guess, but I don't want to stay at that pay long.

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:21 pm

I interviewed with Wanger Jones and while the pay is going to start at around the same as the other Fresno firms they don't really do lockstep and seem to have a lot of opportunity for upward growth if you can bring in the business

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:35 pm

If you have to stay in Fresno, I would check Baker Manock.

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
abraham559 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
abraham559 wrote:I really want to work at a big law firm (at least as big as they can get) in Fresno, CA. But I heard the pay there is really bad. My family is there so I need to find work in Fresno so I can take care of them. Any good law firms that have summer associate's work that will lead to $$$ jobs?? Please help me!

:D


The biggest firm in the area is by far McCormick Barstow. Other respected and larger firms in the are are Dowling Aaron and Baker Manock.


I actually interviewed with McCormick and was saddened to hear that their starting salary was about $78,000, which is below half of what I would get compared to most of my fellow Berkeley Law peers who work at bigger law firms for the same number of hours. Does Dowling Aaron or Baker Manock pay anywhere near McCormick? Because their websites say "competitive" salaries but I don't want what's competitive in Fresno lol. Thanks for the help!


McCormick is definitely top of the market in Fresno and I doubt the other two pay more. That is phenomenal money for Fresno, but you won't 180k in the central valley.



+1

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:40 pm

Wanger Jones Helsley is solid (if you want litigation) and the starting pay is 85,000 which is really good for Fresno. Decent upward mobility as the firm is growing.

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby SFSpartan » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:08 pm

abraham559 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
abraham559 wrote:I really want to work at a big law firm (at least as big as they can get) in Fresno, CA. But I heard the pay there is really bad. My family is there so I need to find work in Fresno so I can take care of them. Any good law firms that have summer associate's work that will lead to $$$ jobs?? Please help me!

:D


The biggest firm in the area is by far McCormick Barstow. Other respected and larger firms in the are are Dowling Aaron and Baker Manock.


I actually interviewed with McCormick and was saddened to hear that their starting salary was about $78,000, which is below half of what I would get compared to most of my fellow Berkeley Law peers who work at bigger law firms for the same number of hours. Does Dowling Aaron or Baker Manock pay anywhere near McCormick? Because their websites say "competitive" salaries but I don't want what's competitive in Fresno lol. Thanks for the help!


If you don't want what's competitive in Fresno, then don't work in Fresno. Also, if you adjust for cost of living, $78,000 in Fresno is about equal to $180k in the Bay Area, where most of your classmates will be. While I get that there are problems with adjusting for cost of living, the market rate in Fresno is what it is. If you don't want to get paid that amount of money, don't work there.

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby Snowboarder1588 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:18 pm

The above post about COL is very much on point. While you can make $3400 per week working in SF which is more than twice what you would get in Fresno (I think the highest weekly SA salary in Fresno is $1500), your rent in Fresno is probably a third of rent in SF. Also, the hours you are working; most Fresno firms will not work you like biglaw firms in SF. So your dollar will go further and your quality of life will be better (working less hours). But if you want that big paycheck, then don't go to Fresno.

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:29 pm

McCormick, Dowling, and Baker (and I guess Wanger too??) are near identical with starting salaries... I think all are somewhere between 80k and 85k as of now. If you go to a top 20 school you'll have a great shot at landing an SA at one of those firms, even at median.

I can tell you that McCormick will work you a lot harder than the rest, even though they claim to have no minimum (at least I think that's how they do it).

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:38 pm

Snowboarder1588 wrote:The above post about COL is very much on point. While you can make $3400 per week working in SF which is more than twice what you would get in Fresno (I think the highest weekly SA salary in Fresno is $1500), your rent in Fresno is probably a third of rent in SF. Also, the hours you are working; most Fresno firms will not work you like biglaw firms in SF. So your dollar will go further and your quality of life will be better (working less hours). But if you want that big paycheck, then don't go to Fresno.


If you want a big house within five years of starting. go to fresno.

edit: this is semireversesplinter

abraham559

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby abraham559 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:29 am

Thank you all for the help! The major point that was brought up that really peaked my interest was about billable hours. You are right. When I was speaking to a prospective employer at Morrison and Foerster, they said the billable hours would be 1800 hours a year (which is crazy). Does any one know for sure how many hours these Fresno law firms require? That is a game changer as I am very family-oriented.

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:29 pm

I thought 1800 was normal/on the low end. (Not that requirements limit your hours anyway, but.)

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:39 pm

Wanting to work in Fresno but not okay getting paid Fresno market rates.

Wanting to work in biglaw (or the Fresno equivalent) but thinks 1800 billable is high.

Wanting to work in biglaw (or the Fresno equivalent) but wants to prioritize family time.



...a lot of reality checking needs to happen ITT

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:13 pm

My firm requires 1800, and I'm pretty sure all other local firms are around the same. 1800 is actually on the lower end of required billables. Many firms in SF and large markets have 1900 or more as a minimums.

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby WhiteCollarBlueShirt » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:47 pm

I work in a small market (not Fresno small, but small).

1) typically there is salary compression, so you're unlikely to ever catch up until you make equity partner (even salary partners will likely earn less than a senior associate in a major market);
2) 1800 hours is generally a great lifestyle for a lawyer (MoFo may have a minimum of that, but most MoFo associates will likely be near or north of 2000);
3) 1800 in regional markets, can actually mean 1800 or close to it, YMMV;
4) You have wild expectations, good luck to you; and
5) COL makes a huge difference locally (you will feel poorer traveling, but you may have time to travel).

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby abraham559 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:40 pm

WhiteCollarBlueShirt wrote:I work in a small market (not Fresno small, but small).

1) typically there is salary compression, so you're unlikely to ever catch up until you make equity partner (even salary partners will likely earn less than a senior associate in a major market);
2) 1800 hours is generally a great lifestyle for a lawyer (MoFo may have a minimum of that, but most MoFo associates will likely be near or north of 2000);
3) 1800 in regional markets, can actually mean 1800 or close to it, YMMV;
4) You have wild expectations, good luck to you; and
5) COL makes a huge difference locally (you will feel poorer traveling, but you may have time to travel).


Thanks so much for your time. Could you break down what an 1800 hour year looks like? Does it mean work every other Saturday, for example? Please be blunt if need be haha. I may have wild expectations but i'm not afraid of being corrected.

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby abraham559 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:43 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:Wanting to work in Fresno but not okay getting paid Fresno market rates.

Wanting to work in biglaw (or the Fresno equivalent) but thinks 1800 billable is high.

Wanting to work in biglaw (or the Fresno equivalent) but wants to prioritize family time.



...a lot of reality checking needs to happen ITT


To be honest, it's just a matter of math. I have in my years before law school worked 18 hours a day 7 days a week just to save some money for college so I'm not afraid of work. It's just that 1800 hours for 78,000 doesn't make sense when I can work 2100 hours for 180,000 starting. And with big law, people hold it out for a couple of years and then move on, so I'm simply asking what's the better route for the long run?

Some of my friends say do big law first because it's like getting a master's degree after law school (looks good on resume). But others say go where you will learn the most, even if it makes less money. These are the types of issues I need help with. I'm definitely open to reality checks so let me have them :D :lol:

abraham559

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby abraham559 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My firm requires 1800, and I'm pretty sure all other local firms are around the same. 1800 is actually on the lower end of required billables. Many firms in SF and large markets have 1900 or more as a minimums.


Could you please share with me what a typical day/week/year looks like at your firm with the 1800 billable hours? I.e. do you work lots of weekends? Are there less deadlines? What time you spend there that doesn't count for billable hours? I really appreciate the help!

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby WhiteCollarBlueShirt » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:02 pm

abraham559 wrote:
WhiteCollarBlueShirt wrote:I work in a small market (not Fresno small, but small).

1) typically there is salary compression, so you're unlikely to ever catch up until you make equity partner (even salary partners will likely earn less than a senior associate in a major market);
2) 1800 hours is generally a great lifestyle for a lawyer (MoFo may have a minimum of that, but most MoFo associates will likely be near or north of 2000);
3) 1800 in regional markets, can actually mean 1800 or close to it, YMMV;
4) You have wild expectations, good luck to you; and
5) COL makes a huge difference locally (you will feel poorer traveling, but you may have time to travel).


Thanks so much for your time. Could you break down what an 1800 hour year looks like? Does it mean work every other Saturday, for example? Please be blunt if need be haha. I may have wild expectations but i'm not afraid of being corrected.


1800 for me is a mix of weekends and late nights, but on average billing between 25 and 55 hours per week (pretty reasonable life). Have done closer 2300 in NYC and that was on average working past midnight once or twice a week and working on average 1 full day every weekend (pretty unreasonable).

Personally, I'd take 180 - Fresno will still be there and you'll like have more mobility and in-house options if you start at a 180 firm.

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby SFSpartan » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:37 pm

abraham559 wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:Wanting to work in Fresno but not okay getting paid Fresno market rates.

Wanting to work in biglaw (or the Fresno equivalent) but thinks 1800 billable is high.

Wanting to work in biglaw (or the Fresno equivalent) but wants to prioritize family time.



...a lot of reality checking needs to happen ITT


To be honest, it's just a matter of math. I have in my years before law school worked 18 hours a day 7 days a week just to save some money for college so I'm not afraid of work. It's just that 1800 hours for 78,000 doesn't make sense when I can work 2100 hours for 180,000 starting. And with big law, people hold it out for a couple of years and then move on, so I'm simply asking what's the better route for the long run?

Some of my friends say do big law first because it's like getting a master's degree after law school (looks good on resume). But others say go where you will learn the most, even if it makes less money. These are the types of issues I need help with. I'm definitely open to reality checks so let me have them :D :lol:


The 180 firms where you will bill more (likely substantially more) are likely the way to go if you're playing the long game. If nothing else, you can probably move to a Fresno firm from, say, MoFo after a couple years, but the reverse is probably not true.

Also, when comparing jobs, make sure you are factoring in cost of living. If you aren't doing that, you're really making an apples to oranges comparison. SF (and they Bay Area in general) is over 2x as expensive than Fresno, so to the extent that all of this is really about the money, you probably come out ahead making $78k in Fresno vs. 180 in SF.

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby foregetaboutdre » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:04 am

I made the decision to pick a secondary market firm w/ lower hours similar to the Fresno market for a SA. The things you have to consider are:
1. Are you dedicated to the market? (And 100% dedicated, moving to a big firm will be more difficult).
2. Do you feel the smaller firm/market will give you a more realistic chance at making partner?
3. Are you OK with potentially not having as much in-house exit options?
4. Does the smaller/secondary market firm have substantive legal work? (Look who they represent).
5. Billable hours. Do they matter to you right now? By picking the secondary market you may bill 200-300 less hours a year. That's 4-6 50 hour billable weeks a year...
6. Money - Is your debt level OK enough to take a job that offers less money. This is a big consideration, because even in NYC or SF you can sort of "live like a pauper" (helps if you're single) and basically just pay off loans/work for a few years.
7. Peers - secondary market will obviously have less of a headcount. Did you get along with the partners/other attorneys during your interview? Where did the partners practice before?

Most importantly, if you choose the smaller secondary market - DO NOT LOOK BACK. It may be hard to do (esp. when classmates will be pulling a bigger check for their SA for probably equal work/hours; but this will *hopefully* change for FT practice). Looking back will eat you up. However, I'd suggest keeping on good terms with larger firms who "liked/offered you." A few told me to consider interviewing again 3L year, but who knows how legit that is...

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Re: Good Summer Associate's Jobs in Fresno?

Postby abraham559 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:21 pm

Do any of you know about hours caps on assignments? I want to know if firms, both big and small, give you whatever number of hours to finish assignment or are there caps on each assignment? Because that would definitely drive up hours more than the actual standard numbers :lol:



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