Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

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iliketurtles123

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby iliketurtles123 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:45 pm

sayan wrote:Part self selection, part uninhibited honesty courtesy of internet anonymity.

Apart from some trolls, nobody on here has an agenda one way or another to discourage or encourage you to go into big law. But similarly, the people who love their jobs are probably working around the clock and don't have any inclination to post on TLS. The big law burn outs are more likely to come on here and commiserate with their fellow big lawlers.


Came here to say exactly this.

In terms of the self-selection part: The majority of my law school and lawyer friends do/did not use TLS (or so they claimed). Most of my biglaw friends don't really have time/see a point in posting on TLS because they have better things to do (not knocking on TLSers). They seem to only check this site if they have specific questions on lateraling or what not, but the majority of the time, they just go on about their lives.

As for whether they like their job: they all seem to say the same thing (job is meh/bad at times but money is good). However, this is the same answer I get from bankers, consultants, auditors, etc.

Hutz_and_Goodman

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:28 pm

I'm in NYC litigation (only 1 year in) and enjoy it

In my opinion it doesn't have anything to do with practice group. It depends how much you like being an attorney, how you (psychologically/emotionally) are able to deal with the stress/hours, and then luck of who you work with a what kind of assignments you get. If you're doing all your time on doc review its basically a guarantee that you won't love your job.

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby mvp99 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:22 pm

"The top five happiest jobs are:

1) Real estate agent

2) Senior quality assurance engineer

3) Senior sales representative

4) Construction superintendent

5) Senior applications designer"

Real estate agent? Lol

Fact: happiest job is grown up poor (so you can appreciate it) then wealth management part-time, manager of your own $100 million asset portfolio

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BmoreOrLess

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby BmoreOrLess » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:51 pm

mvp99 wrote:"The top five happiest jobs are:

1) Real estate agent

2) Senior quality assurance engineer

3) Senior sales representative

4) Construction superintendent

5) Senior applications designer"

Real estate agent? Lol

Fact: happiest job is grown up poor (so you can appreciate it) then wealth management part-time, manager of your own $100 million asset portfolio


You got wealth management right, but missed the mark with growing up poor. Happiest job is taking your dad's book in wealth management so 'work' has always consisted of playing golf with clients.

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:37 am

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:I'm in NYC litigation (only 1 year in) and enjoy it

In my opinion it doesn't have anything to do with practice group. It depends how much you like being an attorney, how you (psychologically/emotionally) are able to deal with the stress/hours, and then luck of who you work with a what kind of assignments you get. If you're doing all your time on doc review its basically a guarantee that you won't love your job.


I hated on doc review at the beginning too, but sooner or later you come to cherish those semi-mindless hours going through docs. Sure beats discovery nastygrams or routine documents made unroutine by unreasonable partners. As long as you mix in some good resume boosting experiences, doc review isn't bad at all.

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jbagelboy

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:06 am

BmoreOrLess wrote:
mvp99 wrote:"The top five happiest jobs are:

1) Real estate agent

2) Senior quality assurance engineer

3) Senior sales representative

4) Construction superintendent

5) Senior applications designer"

Real estate agent? Lol

Fact: happiest job is grown up poor (so you can appreciate it) then wealth management part-time, manager of your own $100 million asset portfolio


You got wealth management right, but missed the mark with growing up poor. Happiest job is taking your dad's book in wealth management so 'work' has always consisted of playing golf with clients.


Or this. Do literally nothing, get all the wealth, gravitas, political influence, and social prestige in the world--and you don't even need to share a dime with your family.

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:09 am

jbagelboy wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:
mvp99 wrote:"The top five happiest jobs are:

1) Real estate agent

2) Senior quality assurance engineer

3) Senior sales representative

4) Construction superintendent

5) Senior applications designer"

Real estate agent? Lol

Fact: happiest job is grown up poor (so you can appreciate it) then wealth management part-time, manager of your own $100 million asset portfolio


You got wealth management right, but missed the mark with growing up poor. Happiest job is taking your dad's book in wealth management so 'work' has always consisted of playing golf with clients.


Or this. Do literally nothing, get all the wealth, gravitas, political influence, and social prestige in the world--and you don't even need to share a dime with your family.

I think you guys are severely misjudging what makes people happy.

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:25 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:
mvp99 wrote:"The top five happiest jobs are:

1) Real estate agent

2) Senior quality assurance engineer

3) Senior sales representative

4) Construction superintendent

5) Senior applications designer"

Real estate agent? Lol

Fact: happiest job is grown up poor (so you can appreciate it) then wealth management part-time, manager of your own $100 million asset portfolio


You got wealth management right, but missed the mark with growing up poor. Happiest job is taking your dad's book in wealth management so 'work' has always consisted of playing golf with clients.


Or this. Do literally nothing, get all the wealth, gravitas, political influence, and social prestige in the world--and you don't even need to share a dime with your family.

I think you guys are severely misjudging what makes people happy.


Genuine friends, strong family connections, good health, being stress free and meaningful purpose in one's life is what makes a person happy... but money can eliminate almost all other things that make you unhappy. We cling to examples of rich folks who are unhappy and conclude that possessing great sums of money is a far cry from what makes a person happy... I'd argue that's not true.

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JenDarby

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby JenDarby » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:27 am

mvp99 wrote:"The top five happiest jobs are:

1) Real estate agent

2) Senior quality assurance engineer

3) Senior sales representative

4) Construction superintendent

5) Senior applications designer"

Real estate agent? Lol

Fact: happiest job is grown up poor (so you can appreciate it) then wealth management part-time, manager of your own $100 million asset portfolio

I will say that every single real estate friend I have is overwhelmingly happy. Most went to great colleges, though a couple didn't go to college, and all make pretty good to GREAT money and seem to be generally "enjoying life" more than the average person I know in any other profession.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:
mvp99 wrote:"The top five happiest jobs are:

1) Real estate agent

2) Senior quality assurance engineer

3) Senior sales representative

4) Construction superintendent

5) Senior applications designer"

Real estate agent? Lol

Fact: happiest job is grown up poor (so you can appreciate it) then wealth management part-time, manager of your own $100 million asset portfolio


You got wealth management right, but missed the mark with growing up poor. Happiest job is taking your dad's book in wealth management so 'work' has always consisted of playing golf with clients.


Or this. Do literally nothing, get all the wealth, gravitas, political influence, and social prestige in the world--and you don't even need to share a dime with your family.

I think you guys are severely misjudging what makes people happy.


Genuine friends, strong family connections, good health, being stress free and meaningful purpose in one's life is what makes a person happy... but money can eliminate almost all other things that make you unhappy. We cling to examples of rich folks who are unhappy and conclude that possessing great sums of money is a far cry from what makes a person happy... I'd argue that's not true.

Eh, certainly not having enough money can be a big source of unhappiness. But I've seen references to studies that over a certain amount of money (related to your expenses I assume) there isn't an increase in happiness - that is, once concerns about having enough money are eliminated, more doesn't make you happier.

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:29 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:
mvp99 wrote:"The top five happiest jobs are:

1) Real estate agent

2) Senior quality assurance engineer

3) Senior sales representative

4) Construction superintendent

5) Senior applications designer"

Real estate agent? Lol

Fact: happiest job is grown up poor (so you can appreciate it) then wealth management part-time, manager of your own $100 million asset portfolio


You got wealth management right, but missed the mark with growing up poor. Happiest job is taking your dad's book in wealth management so 'work' has always consisted of playing golf with clients.


Or this. Do literally nothing, get all the wealth, gravitas, political influence, and social prestige in the world--and you don't even need to share a dime with your family.

I think you guys are severely misjudging what makes people happy.


Genuine friends, strong family connections, good health, being stress free and meaningful purpose in one's life is what makes a person happy... but money can eliminate almost all other things that make you unhappy. We cling to examples of rich folks who are unhappy and conclude that possessing great sums of money is a far cry from what makes a person happy... I'd argue that's not true.

Eh, certainly not having enough money can be a big source of unhappiness. But I've seen references to studies that over a certain amount of money (related to your expenses I assume) there isn't an increase in happiness - that is, once concerns about having enough money are eliminated, more doesn't make you happier.


I've seen similar studies. I think it underestimates the importance of money in eliminating stress and anxiety in one's life. Very nice paying someone else to do my laundry and clean my apartment. Very nice to have wonderful accommodations while traveling and never needing to deal with public transportation. Very nice buying the highest quality food. And then there are childcare costs and taxes.

Most importantly, money buys you time and leisure. No longer needing to work stressful jobs for "big" pay is a massive benefit that only the very few can afford at a young-ish age (when it matters most). I've recently quit my job as a big lawyer after having found success in a pursuit that pays more and has very flexible hours... the relief from stress and anxiety is priceless.

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:34 am

What pursuit pays better than biglaw and has flexible hours but is low stress and low anxiety? The only thing I can guess is entrepreneurship but lol if that is low stress and low anxiety. C-suite?

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:38 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:What pursuit pays better than biglaw and has flexible hours but is low stress and low anxiety? The only thing I can guess is entrepreneurship but lol if that is low stress and low anxiety. C-suite?


Sorry to be ambiguous, but investing. That point is irrelevant, though. The main premise is indisputable.

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:52 am

I don't see how "money buys time and leisure" to be indisputable. Assuming no loans and ordinary non-NYC middle class spending, a biglawyer can probably save 50k a year, not counting retirement savings. With a 6% average return, it'd still take him close to a decade to have a large enough portfolio where he can live off passive income + income from a 40 hr job (and hire a cleaner, fly first class, stay in 5-star hotels, pay childcare costs, live in a nice house, etc.) Extend that time twofold for NYC or SF biglawyers. And scratch that dream for those with debt.

If you're an active investor or even day trading, good for you, but gambling my money like that would give me way more anxiety than biglaw so no thank you. If you truly believe you can beat the market long-term, then best of luck to you. Maybe you're investing in franchising or real estate, but I don't see how that provides the liquidity you seem to have.

There is also absolutely no reason to be ambiguous at all.
Last edited by PeanutsNJam on Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:58 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:I don't see how "money buys time and leisure" to be indisputable. Assuming no loans and ordinary non-NYC middle class spending, a biglawyer can probably save 60k a year. With a 6% average return, it'd still take him close to a decade to have a large enough portfolio where he can live off passive income + income from a 40 hr job (and hire a cleaning lady, fly first class, pay childcare costs, live in a nice house, etc.) Extend that time twofold for NYC or SF biglawyers. And scratch that dream for those with debt.

If you're an active investor or even day trading, good for you, but gambling my money like that would give me way more anxiety than biglaw so no thank you. If you truly believe you can beat the market long-term, then best of luck to you. Maybe you're investing in franchising or real estate, but I don't see how that provides the liquidity you seem to have.

There is also absolutely no reason to be ambiguous at all.


I'm not saying a big lawyer can ever afford to retire young and life a good life without external help or getting extremely lucky financially. I'm saying, as a stylized example to make a point, that if you were given 2 million dollars and a 200k/year perpetuity, you can rid yourself of all stresses and anxiety from your life (assuming good friends and family, good health and the other points I mentioned above). I'd say such a person would live a much happier existence, all else equal, than a person making 100k/year or whatever the "threshold" is determined to be in such studies mentioned by a previous poster.

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jbagelboy

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:06 am

I was being IRONIC in posting that link to point out the IDIOCY of the very concept of comparing who has the optimal life position to achieve happiness. No matter what you do, you can't be the duke of westminster. There will always be someone richer, classier, better looking, more intelligent, more creative, ect., than you. So act accordingly and find happiness in what you do and your life.

Jesus christ

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:26 pm

Re: money and reducing stress and so on - I think that's a fairly broad/shallow definition of happiness. Yes, having someone do your laundry for you and clean your house is very nice and makes your life more comfortable, but I don't think that someone else doing my laundry/not doing my laundry really determines my essential happiness. Ditto for taking public transport vs. having your own transport and so on. Even if you disagree, there is still a point where it's absolutely diminishing returns. Like, being able to avoid public transport (if it's something you hate) is great, but the difference between having a reliable ordinary car and having a chauffeured limo is really not going to alter your fundamental happiness.

Also part of the whole point is that you *can't* assume good health, good friends, family etc.

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:27 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Re: money and reducing stress and so on - I think that's a fairly broad/shallow definition of happiness. Yes, having someone do your laundry for you and clean your house is very nice and makes your life more comfortable, but I don't think that someone else doing my laundry/not doing my laundry really determines my essential happiness. Ditto for taking public transport vs. having your own transport and so on. Even if you disagree, there is still a point where it's absolutely diminishing returns. Like, being able to avoid public transport (if it's something you hate) is great, but the difference between having a reliable ordinary car and having a chauffeured limo is really not going to alter your fundamental happiness.

Also part of the whole point is that you *can't* assume good health, good friends, family etc.

And independently wealthy kids often grow up to find themselves lacking purpose, meaning, etc. Those who don't are the ones who find something important to them to spend their time doing, but I don't think being rich makes it all that much easier to identify that thing you love to do -- it just means you don't even have the workaday grind to distract you and provide at least fleeting moments of satisfaction and accomplishment.

The fact of the matter is you need to do something with your life. If you're rich, you certainly have more options, but if you don't know what you WANT to do, more options can be all the more suffocating.

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby patentlitigatrix » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:46 pm

All of this depends on your perspective. I think trying to find personal happiness and meaning in a biglaw job will be a fairly fruitless effort for most people. But I am not trying to find personal happiness in my job. My happiness comes from my family, friends, and interests outside of work. Biglaw funds all of those things, and while the hours can be long, my coworkers are kind, intelligent, and considerate. Not to mention I am getting paid a lot to do a job where I am safe and comfortable all day-aside from a trip to court or a depo here and there, it is a desk job. I feel like I could do this job forever.

whysooseriousbiglaw

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:18 pm

patentlitigatrix wrote:All of this depends on your perspective. I think trying to find personal happiness and meaning in a biglaw job will be a fairly fruitless effort for most people. But I am not trying to find personal happiness in my job. My happiness comes from my family, friends, and interests outside of work. Biglaw funds all of those things, and while the hours can be long, my coworkers are kind, intelligent, and considerate. Not to mention I am getting paid a lot to do a job where I am safe and comfortable all day-aside from a trip to court or a depo here and there, it is a desk job. I feel like I could do this job forever.


A lot of the gripe about biglaw is with the hours. There's no time to do anything fulfilling if you're actually making your billable reqs. Plus at least in transactional work, your hours are unusual and you're often working nights and weekends in addition to being at work during the day.

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby patentlitigatrix » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:14 pm

whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
patentlitigatrix wrote:All of this depends on your perspective. I think trying to find personal happiness and meaning in a biglaw job will be a fairly fruitless effort for most people. But I am not trying to find personal happiness in my job. My happiness comes from my family, friends, and interests outside of work. Biglaw funds all of those things, and while the hours can be long, my coworkers are kind, intelligent, and considerate. Not to mention I am getting paid a lot to do a job where I am safe and comfortable all day-aside from a trip to court or a depo here and there, it is a desk job. I feel like I could do this job forever.


A lot of the gripe about biglaw is with the hours. There's no time to do anything fulfilling if you're actually making your billable reqs. Plus at least in transactional work, your hours are unusual and you're often working nights and weekends in addition to being at work during the day.


I can't speak to transactional work since I am in litigation. I don't find this to be the case in my life, but then again I work for a CA firm, have a target less than 2000, and have a very short commute.

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Re: Does anyone like their Biglaw job?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:37 pm

SLS_AMG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:There's no disconnect. People who do recruiting have to say they love their job. They have to play up how interesting it is and how nice a culture their firm has and how you'd fit in so great there and have a wonderful experience; that doesn't make any of it true. TLS can be overly pessimistic, but its far more accurate than the recruiting pitches you'll get doing OCI or networking events.

I personally don't hate my firm or my job, but 1) I am at a somewhat unique place, and 2) I could only take this sort of environment with constant pressure for a limited amount of time, knowing that I have an out, and I'm most likely going to leave biglaw as soon as I've paid off my loans.


Honestly, people on TLS are just bitchy and believe they deserve a six-figure salary for a 40-hour-per-week job. There's some combination of people who just need to vent, others who just love to hear themselves speak/see themselves write, a third group that has totally unreasonable expectations, and a fourth group that is just whiny and insufferable. Sadly, there are a lot of whiny, insufferable lawyers.

Is big law the most fun thing in the world? No. But there are a small group of posters on here that whine incessantly and make it seem worse than it is.


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