Need help...banking or law?

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:05 pm

See the long-term career trajectory and your interest. You won't be a math genius analyst at Goldman, right? (cause you are a law student lol) Then at Goldman, your success would depend on whether you will become one of the best fund managers (researcher -> fund manager). If you enjoy investing in your own time (by the way, I love trading on the stock market), it would be a good career option. At Goldman, your performance will be evaluated based on whether you are CORRECT about the market prediction or not as a banker. You will probably write a few page reports. As a lawyer, you will be a paper pusher, you will do a lot of paper work. Big difference.

Split summers and figure out your strength and interests.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:13 am

First off, do you want litigation or transactional? If lit, this should be easy. If you actually think you want to be a transactional lawyer for some reason, don't write off the compliance job. Some of my law school classmates did that at a different bank and the QOL is great. As an actual corporate biglaw associate and not a law student or first year just echoing back the same prestige bullshit, the idea that compliance is any more boring than a biglaw corporate group is a fucking joke.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:16 am

Also, this is a funny observation, but as someone with friends in biglaw, banking (and consulting) this is how it goes (and yes I know this isn't really applicable to compliance):

Biglawyer: "I wish I had gone to business school or could lateral to banking (or consulting)!"

Banker (or consultant): "Sure these hours are rough, but at least we're not lawyers! <high five>"

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nunumaster

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby nunumaster » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:First off, do you want litigation or transactional? If lit, this should be easy. If you actually think you want to be a transactional lawyer for some reason, don't write off the compliance job. Some of my law school classmates did that at a different bank and the QOL is great. As an actual corporate biglaw associate and not a law student or first year just echoing back the same prestige bullshit, the idea that compliance is any more boring than a biglaw corporate group is a fucking joke.


Are you telling me you have friends who went to law school with you who went straight into entry level compliance gigs, while you went into big law as a corporate associate, think theyre better off? Sure QOL, in terms of hours worked, may be less than being at a law firm, but at what cost?

No one gives a fuck about prestige. My argument is that entry level compliance is bull shit, you won't advance quickly, and you'll make less money. At least if you grind in big law as an associate for a few years you could have better lateral options, all while pulling in more money.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:45 am

nunumaster wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First off, do you want litigation or transactional? If lit, this should be easy. If you actually think you want to be a transactional lawyer for some reason, don't write off the compliance job. Some of my law school classmates did that at a different bank and the QOL is great. As an actual corporate biglaw associate and not a law student or first year just echoing back the same prestige bullshit, the idea that compliance is any more boring than a biglaw corporate group is a fucking joke.


Are you telling me you have friends who went to law school with you who went straight into entry level compliance gigs, while you went into big law as a corporate associate, think theyre better off? Sure QOL, in terms of hours worked, may be less than being at a law firm, but at what cost?

No one gives a fuck about prestige. My argument is that entry level compliance is bull shit, you won't advance quickly, and you'll make less money. At least if you grind in big law as an associate for a few years you could have better lateral options, all while pulling in more money.


Yes. They struck out on biglaw and ended up compliance at one of the banks that does it offsite. I ended up in NYC biglaw. They're QOL is much higher, hours better, COL lower, job security better, etc. I think they started just under 100k tho. They definitely have received promotions and there's upward mobility, though. Yeah, debt pay down is tougher, but taking out more than 100k is stupid anyway. There are a LOT of biglaw midlevels miserable with hours and work that have spent a year plus looking for an inhouse spot and would take a compliance job like this in a second. If GS still does it in NYC that's also tougher, though.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby nunumaster » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
nunumaster wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First off, do you want litigation or transactional? If lit, this should be easy. If you actually think you want to be a transactional lawyer for some reason, don't write off the compliance job. Some of my law school classmates did that at a different bank and the QOL is great. As an actual corporate biglaw associate and not a law student or first year just echoing back the same prestige bullshit, the idea that compliance is any more boring than a biglaw corporate group is a fucking joke.


Are you telling me you have friends who went to law school with you who went straight into entry level compliance gigs, while you went into big law as a corporate associate, think theyre better off? Sure QOL, in terms of hours worked, may be less than being at a law firm, but at what cost?

No one gives a fuck about prestige. My argument is that entry level compliance is bull shit, you won't advance quickly, and you'll make less money. At least if you grind in big law as an associate for a few years you could have better lateral options, all while pulling in more money.


Yes. They struck out on biglaw and ended up compliance at one of the banks that does it offsite. I ended up in NYC biglaw. They're QOL is much higher, hours better, COL lower, job security better, etc. I think they started just under 100k tho. They definitely have received promotions and there's upward mobility, though. Yeah, debt pay down is tougher, but taking out more than 100k is stupid anyway. There are a LOT of biglaw midlevels miserable with hours and work that have spent a year plus looking for an inhouse spot and would take a compliance job like this in a second. If GS still does it in NYC that's also tougher, though.


I disagree. First of all this doesn't apply to OPs situation. Sure if someone wants to live in a low COL area and make 100k that is a lifestyle choice and their prerogative. Turning down big law to work in entry level compliance in NYC is easily and objectively a bad decision from a financial perspective.

There might be "upward mobility" as you describe, but not in the sense we are thinking. You're not going to be doing any legal or transactional work ever again, and will be limited to x,y,z, coming up with procedural and policy reports, and doing a lot of other bs. I worked in compliance at a bank and saw first year associate burnouts who were easily stunted in their careers for lateraling too early into compliance. I had coffee with a few of the legal people at this bank, who all came with years of big law experience and handled the deal side work at the bank, and they all literally warned me against going in-house too quick.

The mid levels who have been looking for a while at your firm probably haven't jumped ship because they don't want to take a pay cut and end up in compliance, if they're not entering at a high level.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby throwaway_ » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:07 pm

nunumaster wrote:I disagree. First of all this doesn't apply to OPs situation. Sure if someone wants to live in a low COL area and make 100k that is a lifestyle choice and their prerogative. Turning down big law to work in entry level compliance in NYC is easily and objectively a bad decision from a financial perspective.

There might be "upward mobility" as you describe, but not in the sense we are thinking. You're not going to be doing any legal or transactional work ever again, and will be limited to x,y,z, coming up with procedural and policy reports, and doing a lot of other bs. I worked in compliance at a bank and saw first year associate burnouts who were easily stunted in their careers for lateraling too early into compliance. I had coffee with a few of the legal people at this bank, who all came with years of big law experience and handled the deal side work at the bank, and they all literally warned me against going in-house too quick.

The mid levels who have been looking for a while at your firm probably haven't jumped ship because they don't want to take a pay cut and end up in compliance, if they're not entering at a high level.


Just lol at this. OP is complete flame. GS doesn't give you an "offer" to be a summer associate then later decide they'll slot you into compliance because you have a law degree.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here found out they now want to put me in compliance because of legal background. still worth it?





Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi everyone,

Have a summer offer with a v200 firm paying 160. Got an offer today to be a summer associate at Goldman. I'm not sure what to do. I've read a lot about lawyers saying they wish they did something else and bankers make more but don't bankers also work insane hours?

Confused, not sure what to do and any input would be appreciated


OP, I summered in biglaw and at GS. Chose the latter. Happy to discuss by PM if you have a throwaway account. Also - congrats.



GS poster from above. There are folks who work in compliance here who do not have JDs. I don't know why you would do this.

Also, the IBD recruitment path is fairly narrow and you would have been tested on your technical skills - accounting, valuation, understanding of corporate finance, and even put through certain types of roleplaying situations wherein you are an associate and managing a team. I have never heard of someone being extended an offer to join GS IBD, only to have it pulled and replaced with a compliance offer. This is starting to sound like a flame. Are you sure you interviewed for a "banking" position?

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:47 pm

nunumaster wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
nunumaster wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First off, do you want litigation or transactional? If lit, this should be easy. If you actually think you want to be a transactional lawyer for some reason, don't write off the compliance job. Some of my law school classmates did that at a different bank and the QOL is great. As an actual corporate biglaw associate and not a law student or first year just echoing back the same prestige bullshit, the idea that compliance is any more boring than a biglaw corporate group is a fucking joke.


Are you telling me you have friends who went to law school with you who went straight into entry level compliance gigs, while you went into big law as a corporate associate, think theyre better off? Sure QOL, in terms of hours worked, may be less than being at a law firm, but at what cost?

No one gives a fuck about prestige. My argument is that entry level compliance is bull shit, you won't advance quickly, and you'll make less money. At least if you grind in big law as an associate for a few years you could have better lateral options, all while pulling in more money.


Yes. They struck out on biglaw and ended up compliance at one of the banks that does it offsite. I ended up in NYC biglaw. They're QOL is much higher, hours better, COL lower, job security better, etc. I think they started just under 100k tho. They definitely have received promotions and there's upward mobility, though. Yeah, debt pay down is tougher, but taking out more than 100k is stupid anyway. There are a LOT of biglaw midlevels miserable with hours and work that have spent a year plus looking for an inhouse spot and would take a compliance job like this in a second. If GS still does it in NYC that's also tougher, though.


I disagree. First of all this doesn't apply to OPs situation. Sure if someone wants to live in a low COL area and make 100k that is a lifestyle choice and their prerogative. Turning down big law to work in entry level compliance in NYC is easily and objectively a bad decision from a financial perspective.

There might be "upward mobility" as you describe, but not in the sense we are thinking. You're not going to be doing any legal or transactional work ever again, and will be limited to x,y,z, coming up with procedural and policy reports, and doing a lot of other bs. I worked in compliance at a bank and saw first year associate burnouts who were easily stunted in their careers for lateraling too early into compliance. I had coffee with a few of the legal people at this bank, who all came with years of big law experience and handled the deal side work at the bank, and they all literally warned me against going in-house too quick.

The mid levels who have been looking for a while at your firm probably haven't jumped ship because they don't want to take a pay cut and end up in compliance, if they're not entering at a high level.


Yeah, like I said, it's tougher if it's still in NYC. Probably doesn't apply for OP. LOL at the not doing any legal work again thing, though. Corporate attorneys don't do legal work. It's glorified paralegal work. I speak from experience at 2 firms in different corporate groups. Anyone that thinks otherwise is delusional or a naive law student. I assure you the corporate work being done in biglaw isn't any less boring than compliance work. If you have to do biglaw at least do lit.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
nunumaster wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
nunumaster wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First off, do you want litigation or transactional? If lit, this should be easy. If you actually think you want to be a transactional lawyer for some reason, don't write off the compliance job. Some of my law school classmates did that at a different bank and the QOL is great. As an actual corporate biglaw associate and not a law student or first year just echoing back the same prestige bullshit, the idea that compliance is any more boring than a biglaw corporate group is a fucking joke.


Are you telling me you have friends who went to law school with you who went straight into entry level compliance gigs, while you went into big law as a corporate associate, think theyre better off? Sure QOL, in terms of hours worked, may be less than being at a law firm, but at what cost?

No one gives a fuck about prestige. My argument is that entry level compliance is bull shit, you won't advance quickly, and you'll make less money. At least if you grind in big law as an associate for a few years you could have better lateral options, all while pulling in more money.


Yes. They struck out on biglaw and ended up compliance at one of the banks that does it offsite. I ended up in NYC biglaw. They're QOL is much higher, hours better, COL lower, job security better, etc. I think they started just under 100k tho. They definitely have received promotions and there's upward mobility, though. Yeah, debt pay down is tougher, but taking out more than 100k is stupid anyway. There are a LOT of biglaw midlevels miserable with hours and work that have spent a year plus looking for an inhouse spot and would take a compliance job like this in a second. If GS still does it in NYC that's also tougher, though.


I disagree. First of all this doesn't apply to OPs situation. Sure if someone wants to live in a low COL area and make 100k that is a lifestyle choice and their prerogative. Turning down big law to work in entry level compliance in NYC is easily and objectively a bad decision from a financial perspective.

There might be "upward mobility" as you describe, but not in the sense we are thinking. You're not going to be doing any legal or transactional work ever again, and will be limited to x,y,z, coming up with procedural and policy reports, and doing a lot of other bs. I worked in compliance at a bank and saw first year associate burnouts who were easily stunted in their careers for lateraling too early into compliance. I had coffee with a few of the legal people at this bank, who all came with years of big law experience and handled the deal side work at the bank, and they all literally warned me against going in-house too quick.

The mid levels who have been looking for a while at your firm probably haven't jumped ship because they don't want to take a pay cut and end up in compliance, if they're not entering at a high level.


Yeah, like I said, it's tougher if it's still in NYC. Probably doesn't apply for OP. LOL at the not doing any legal work again thing, though. Corporate attorneys don't do legal work. It's glorified paralegal work. I speak from experience at 2 firms in different corporate groups. Anyone that thinks otherwise is delusional or a naive law student. I assure you the corporate work being done in biglaw isn't any less boring than compliance work. If you have to do biglaw at least do lit.


This is patently not true at GS.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
nunumaster wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
nunumaster wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First off, do you want litigation or transactional? If lit, this should be easy. If you actually think you want to be a transactional lawyer for some reason, don't write off the compliance job. Some of my law school classmates did that at a different bank and the QOL is great. As an actual corporate biglaw associate and not a law student or first year just echoing back the same prestige bullshit, the idea that compliance is any more boring than a biglaw corporate group is a fucking joke.


Are you telling me you have friends who went to law school with you who went straight into entry level compliance gigs, while you went into big law as a corporate associate, think theyre better off? Sure QOL, in terms of hours worked, may be less than being at a law firm, but at what cost?

No one gives a fuck about prestige. My argument is that entry level compliance is bull shit, you won't advance quickly, and you'll make less money. At least if you grind in big law as an associate for a few years you could have better lateral options, all while pulling in more money.


Yes. They struck out on biglaw and ended up compliance at one of the banks that does it offsite. I ended up in NYC biglaw. They're QOL is much higher, hours better, COL lower, job security better, etc. I think they started just under 100k tho. They definitely have received promotions and there's upward mobility, though. Yeah, debt pay down is tougher, but taking out more than 100k is stupid anyway. There are a LOT of biglaw midlevels miserable with hours and work that have spent a year plus looking for an inhouse spot and would take a compliance job like this in a second. If GS still does it in NYC that's also tougher, though.


I disagree. First of all this doesn't apply to OPs situation. Sure if someone wants to live in a low COL area and make 100k that is a lifestyle choice and their prerogative. Turning down big law to work in entry level compliance in NYC is easily and objectively a bad decision from a financial perspective.

There might be "upward mobility" as you describe, but not in the sense we are thinking. You're not going to be doing any legal or transactional work ever again, and will be limited to x,y,z, coming up with procedural and policy reports, and doing a lot of other bs. I worked in compliance at a bank and saw first year associate burnouts who were easily stunted in their careers for lateraling too early into compliance. I had coffee with a few of the legal people at this bank, who all came with years of big law experience and handled the deal side work at the bank, and they all literally warned me against going in-house too quick.

The mid levels who have been looking for a while at your firm probably haven't jumped ship because they don't want to take a pay cut and end up in compliance, if they're not entering at a high level.


Yeah, like I said, it's tougher if it's still in NYC. Probably doesn't apply for OP. LOL at the not doing any legal work again thing, though. Corporate attorneys don't do legal work. It's glorified paralegal work. I speak from experience at 2 firms in different corporate groups. Anyone that thinks otherwise is delusional or a naive law student. I assure you the corporate work being done in biglaw isn't any less boring than compliance work. If you have to do biglaw at least do lit.


This is patently not true at GS.


Well it sure is in biglaw. Nunumaster seemed to insinuate that compliance work was below corporate biglaw work and, as an actual biglaw associate, I can assure him or her that it is not.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby whysoseriousbiglaw » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:38 pm

I have friends who went from biglaw to compliance - compliance is still boring but MUCH, MUCH less stressful with MUCH higher QOL. They basically said they were depressed and hated biglaw whereas in compliance they are bored but they get out of work at 5 pm so they don't care. Also they say the stress level difference is like 9 in biglaw out of 10 versus a 1 in compliance.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby 147221 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:04 pm

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby MilbankAlum » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:See the long-term career trajectory and your interest. You won't be a math genius analyst at Goldman, right? (cause you are a law student lol) Then at Goldman, your success would depend on whether you will become one of the best fund managers (researcher -> fund manager). If you enjoy investing in your own time (by the way, I love trading on the stock market), it would be a good career option. At Goldman, your performance will be evaluated based on whether you are CORRECT about the market prediction or not as a banker. You will probably write a few page reports. As a lawyer, you will be a paper pusher, you will do a lot of paper work. Big difference.

Split summers and figure out your strength and interests.



You obviously do not understand what it is that an investment bank does. Goldman does have a principal investing arm but that's private equity, not banking. Try again.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby cjw564 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:52 am

MilbankAlum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:See the long-term career trajectory and your interest. You won't be a math genius analyst at Goldman, right? (cause you are a law student lol) Then at Goldman, your success would depend on whether you will become one of the best fund managers (researcher -> fund manager). If you enjoy investing in your own time (by the way, I love trading on the stock market), it would be a good career option. At Goldman, your performance will be evaluated based on whether you are CORRECT about the market prediction or not as a banker. You will probably write a few page reports. As a lawyer, you will be a paper pusher, you will do a lot of paper work. Big difference.

Split summers and figure out your strength and interests.



You obviously do not understand what it is that an investment bank does. Goldman does have a principal investing arm but that's private equity, not banking. Try again.


If I am not wrong, most of Goldman's principal investment fall under their S&T division (which is still a part of investment banking, broadly speaking, just not the ibd people usually focus on). Goldman capital partner and Goldman special situation (the two private equity arms of GS) still only account for a small part of their principal investment, even if Dodd-Frank is making the bank shift more money out of the public market into private equity.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby MilbankAlum » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:10 am

cjw564 wrote:
MilbankAlum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:See the long-term career trajectory and your interest. You won't be a math genius analyst at Goldman, right? (cause you are a law student lol) Then at Goldman, your success would depend on whether you will become one of the best fund managers (researcher -> fund manager). If you enjoy investing in your own time (by the way, I love trading on the stock market), it would be a good career option. At Goldman, your performance will be evaluated based on whether you are CORRECT about the market prediction or not as a banker. You will probably write a few page reports. As a lawyer, you will be a paper pusher, you will do a lot of paper work. Big difference.

Split summers and figure out your strength and interests.



You obviously do not understand what it is that an investment bank does. Goldman does have a principal investing arm but that's private equity, not banking. Try again.


If I am not wrong, most of Goldman's principal investment fall under their S&T division (which is still a part of investment banking, broadly speaking, just not the ibd people usually focus on). Goldman capital partner and Goldman special situation (the two private equity arms of GS) still only account for a small part of their principal investment, even if Dodd-Frank is making the bank shift more money out of the public market into private equity.


Fair points, but when someone says "banking" regarding GS, I think of either Merchant Banking ("MBD") or IBD. MBD is technically not investment banking, but the skill set you need for one type of interview is more or less the same as for the other (and indeed, the guys who jump to Capital Partners ("PIA"), PCI, MSI, SSG, REPIA, and other investing vehicles are usually people who have banking experience), and quite often you'll indicate your interest in interviewing for IBD and an HCM person will grab your resume and think "this person could be really good in MBD."

In other words, I recognize that principal investing on the whole is primarily an S&T function, but if you're talking about banking and talking about principal investing, as the guy I quoted was, you're talking about MBD.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:44 pm

throwaway_ wrote:Stop feeding the flame.

buckiguy_sucks wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
buckiguy_sucks wrote:don't junior bankers make like half of 180 obviously if you make VP you're making fuck you money but how many people make it


Junior analysts (pre-MBA/JD) make ~$70k base plus $20-50k bonus, but IB associates (post-MBA/JD) make more like $125k+$50k or 135k+$50k plus a starting bonus. It ends up being pretty comparable, depending on the bank, for a few years, and if you make it in finance it accellerated beyond the law firm market scale (unless you make partner at a high PPP firm, which is a tiny chance).


The track is only like 4 years instead of 9 too right? Is it still like 1 in 40 or whatever chance


I don't know why jbagelboy keeps insisting that compensation is "comparable." It's the same for the first year, and after that bankers get paid more at an accelerating rate. Mentioning pre-MBAs is a complete non sequitur, unless you're trying to point out that being a lawyer is an even more shitty deal because of the opportunity cost that is 3 years of law school.


Not comparable at all. The banks pay more than Wachtell. At the bulge bracket banks (e.g., Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, BAML), the median first year associate would make $250k+. At the extremely selective elite boutiques (e.g., PJT/Blackstone, Evercore), median first year associate comp is ~$300k. The difference is amplified as you get more senior. This is why you see fourth year associates at Wachtell choosing to become second/third-year investment banking associates.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
throwaway_ wrote:Stop feeding the flame.

buckiguy_sucks wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
buckiguy_sucks wrote:don't junior bankers make like half of 180 obviously if you make VP you're making fuck you money but how many people make it


Junior analysts (pre-MBA/JD) make ~$70k base plus $20-50k bonus, but IB associates (post-MBA/JD) make more like $125k+$50k or 135k+$50k plus a starting bonus. It ends up being pretty comparable, depending on the bank, for a few years, and if you make it in finance it accellerated beyond the law firm market scale (unless you make partner at a high PPP firm, which is a tiny chance).


The track is only like 4 years instead of 9 too right? Is it still like 1 in 40 or whatever chance


I don't know why jbagelboy keeps insisting that compensation is "comparable." It's the same for the first year, and after that bankers get paid more at an accelerating rate. Mentioning pre-MBAs is a complete non sequitur, unless you're trying to point out that being a lawyer is an even more shitty deal because of the opportunity cost that is 3 years of law school.


Not comparable at all. The banks pay more than Wachtell. At the bulge bracket banks (e.g., Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, BAML), the median first year associate would make $250k+ ($140k base+$110k bonus). At the elite boutiques (e.g., PJT, Evercore), median first year associate comp is ~$300k. This is why you see fourth year associates at Wachtell choosing to become second/third-year investment banking associates.


nope. this is not correct.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:47 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
throwaway_ wrote:Stop feeding the flame.

buckiguy_sucks wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
buckiguy_sucks wrote:don't junior bankers make like half of 180 obviously if you make VP you're making fuck you money but how many people make it


Junior analysts (pre-MBA/JD) make ~$70k base plus $20-50k bonus, but IB associates (post-MBA/JD) make more like $125k+$50k or 135k+$50k plus a starting bonus. It ends up being pretty comparable, depending on the bank, for a few years, and if you make it in finance it accellerated beyond the law firm market scale (unless you make partner at a high PPP firm, which is a tiny chance).


The track is only like 4 years instead of 9 too right? Is it still like 1 in 40 or whatever chance


I don't know why jbagelboy keeps insisting that compensation is "comparable." It's the same for the first year, and after that bankers get paid more at an accelerating rate. Mentioning pre-MBAs is a complete non sequitur, unless you're trying to point out that being a lawyer is an even more shitty deal because of the opportunity cost that is 3 years of law school.


Not comparable at all. The banks pay more than Wachtell. At the bulge bracket banks (e.g., Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, BAML), the median first year associate would make $250k+ ($140k base+$110k bonus). At the elite boutiques (e.g., PJT, Evercore), median first year associate comp is ~$300k. This is why you see fourth year associates at Wachtell choosing to become second/third-year investment banking associates.


nope. this is not correct.


Have you worked in both banking and law post JD/MBA?

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:49 pm

want to stop anonymously posting and show your shit? I don't mean to be rude I just don't know why you'd question me when you are posting anon

the MEDIAN IB associate at a top flight bank is NOT making a six figure bonus. top performers are making 100-110% of base comp (125-135 depending), low performers are making a fraction of that. median varies between bank and year to year. there's no way you can say median first year associate has a $110k bonus across BB.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:51 pm

jbagelboy wrote:want to stop anonymously posting and show your shit? I don't mean to be rude I just don't know why you'd question me when you are posting anon

the MEDIAN IB associate at a top flight bank is NOT making a six figure bonus. top performers are making 100-110% of base comp (125-135 depending), low performers are making a fraction of that. median varies between bank and year to year. there's no way you can say median first year associate has a $110k bonus across BB.


First off, only stub year associate (A0) has $125 base. A1 is bumped to $150. Hard to believe you know what you're talking about when you don't even know this.

I can confirm that most of the figures in this thread is correct:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/2 ... discussion

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:want to stop anonymously posting and show your shit? I don't mean to be rude I just don't know why you'd question me when you are posting anon

the MEDIAN IB associate at a top flight bank is NOT making a six figure bonus. top performers are making 100-110% of base comp (125-135 depending), low performers are making a fraction of that. median varies between bank and year to year. there's no way you can say median first year associate has a $110k bonus across BB.


First off, only stub year associate (A0) has $125 base. A1 is bumped to $150. Hard to believe you know what you're talking about when you don't even know this.


that is not an accurate statement at these banks across the board. I can't speak to every one of them, but I know it's not true at at least one of the four you mentioned (where my brother in law works), and I'm willing to bet a second one isn't there yet either. A1 is still $125k with A2 at $150k at many of the largest banks.

I'm not challenging that bankers make more than attorneys. Clearly its a more profitable line of work and a higher paying professional track. I just know when these salaries are inflated.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:01 am

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:want to stop anonymously posting and show your shit? I don't mean to be rude I just don't know why you'd question me when you are posting anon

the MEDIAN IB associate at a top flight bank is NOT making a six figure bonus. top performers are making 100-110% of base comp (125-135 depending), low performers are making a fraction of that. median varies between bank and year to year. there's no way you can say median first year associate has a $110k bonus across BB.


First off, only stub year associate (A0) has $125 base. A1 is bumped to $150. Hard to believe you know what you're talking about when you don't even know this.


that is not an accurate statement at these banks across the board. I can't speak to every one of them, but I know it's not true at at least one of the four you mentioned (where my brother in law works), and I'm willing to bet a second one isn't there yet either. A1 is still $125k with A2 at $150k at many of the largest banks.

I'm not challenging that bankers make more than attorneys. Clearly its a more profitable line of work and a higher paying professional track. I just know when these salaries are inflated.


Ok. I admit that my knowledge regarding the spectrum of BB compensation is hazy. I do know that median bonus is not $50k. Median A1 total comp at more than 3 elite boutiques far exceeds Wachtell total comp.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:want to stop anonymously posting and show your shit? I don't mean to be rude I just don't know why you'd question me when you are posting anon

the MEDIAN IB associate at a top flight bank is NOT making a six figure bonus. top performers are making 100-110% of base comp (125-135 depending), low performers are making a fraction of that. median varies between bank and year to year. there's no way you can say median first year associate has a $110k bonus across BB.


First off, only stub year associate (A0) has $125 base. A1 is bumped to $150. Hard to believe you know what you're talking about when you don't even know this.


that is not an accurate statement at these banks across the board. I can't speak to every one of them, but I know it's not true at at least one of the four you mentioned (where my brother in law works), and I'm willing to bet a second one isn't there yet either. A1 is still $125k with A2 at $150k at many of the largest banks.

I'm not challenging that bankers make more than attorneys. Clearly its a more profitable line of work and a higher paying professional track. I just know when these salaries are inflated.


Ok. I admit that my knowledge regarding the spectrum of BB compensation is hazy. I do know that median bonus is not $50k. I also know median A1 comp at more than 3 elite boutiques far exceeds Wachtell comp.


changing tacks a little, do we know what wachtell comp will be in 2017? I don't remember seeing whether they went to $180 or $185 base.

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Re: Need help...banking or law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:10 am

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:want to stop anonymously posting and show your shit? I don't mean to be rude I just don't know why you'd question me when you are posting anon

the MEDIAN IB associate at a top flight bank is NOT making a six figure bonus. top performers are making 100-110% of base comp (125-135 depending), low performers are making a fraction of that. median varies between bank and year to year. there's no way you can say median first year associate has a $110k bonus across BB.


First off, only stub year associate (A0) has $125 base. A1 is bumped to $150. Hard to believe you know what you're talking about when you don't even know this.


that is not an accurate statement at these banks across the board. I can't speak to every one of them, but I know it's not true at at least one of the four you mentioned (where my brother in law works), and I'm willing to bet a second one isn't there yet either. A1 is still $125k with A2 at $150k at many of the largest banks.

I'm not challenging that bankers make more than attorneys. Clearly its a more profitable line of work and a higher paying professional track. I just know when these salaries are inflated.


Ok. I admit that my knowledge regarding the spectrum of BB compensation is hazy. I do know that median bonus is not $50k. I also know median A1 comp at more than 3 elite boutiques far exceeds Wachtell comp.


changing tacks a little, do we know what wachtell comp will be in 2017? I don't remember seeing whether they went to $180 or $185 base.


Last time I checked (many weeks after Cravath announced), it was still at $165. Probably changed since.



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