Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:Yo OP,

I am at a T14 and struck out at OCI, and it is absolutely devastating. I am MMing and trying to keep the light alive by having a few small firm interviews down the road lined up, but it is tough; really tough. I consider myself as someone with very strong motivation and someone that does not get "depressed" easily, at all.

However, sitting in class and hearing classmates talk to each other: "Yeah, I have a Gibson Dunn offer but I'm still waiting on Skadden. How are you doing? " "Great, accepted my offer yesterday at Jones Day -- hard to focus now on class haha" is crushing.

I'm sitting there listening to this, jealous as could be, depressed, mad, confused, totally unmotivated to listen in class.

You're not alone brother.


I am experiencing this exact same thing at UT.

Fellow student: "Oh my god, I am so frustrated."
Me: "What's wrong?"
Fellow student: "I am trying to convince Baker Botts to let me split my summer and they being stubborn."
Me: "Ohhh, yeah. Sorry to hear that......"

OP, I and thousands of others are feeling a similar pain. If it helps, as said above, you are definitely not alone. Keep mass mailing and be strong. As for seeking out psychiatric help, you can only benefit.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:Op here,

To the last person that replied, not UC Berkly, wow. 35 screeners is good. T14 your worth something. I am a low T1. I'm worth nothing because in reality low T1 students don't have much potential. You may make a good lawyer. Don't change for anyone stay the way you are. If people call it depression let them.

To the rest, I hate when people say I'm depressed or some shit wtf. You fucking hear the term mental illness and without knowing anything about the person, you fucking drop that word in an unrelated scenario and think that oh this person must be depressed because I heard the term mental illness somewhere without doing my research and knowing what it is, but this person probably is what it is, so I'm going to inappropriately drop that term here because it makes sense to. Lmfao. No wrong. Fucking name droppers, probably don't know shit about mental illness. Would love to see yalls psychology degrees. Haha jk but I love you guys TLS users are awesome!

I'm not depressed. I don't like people. I'm very judge mental when it comes to people and I don't see most people have good intentions anyways. I choose not to have a social life because I don't want to be taken advantage of or anything.

You don't know anything about what I know about depression, and you really sound like you would benefit from talking to a counselor of some kind.

Also, speaking as someone who went to a lower T1, you need to get over your inferiority complex.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby rpupkin » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:Op here,

To the last person that replied, not UC Berkly, wow. 35 screeners is good. T14 your worth something. I am a low T1. I'm worth nothing because in reality low T1 students don't have much potential. You may make a good lawyer. Don't change for anyone stay the way you are. If people call it depression let them.

To the rest, I hate when people say I'm depressed or some shit wtf. You fucking hear the term mental illness and without knowing anything about the person, you fucking drop that word in an unrelated scenario and think that oh this person must be depressed because I heard the term mental illness somewhere without doing my research and knowing what it is, but this person probably is what it is, so I'm going to inappropriately drop that term here because it makes sense to. Lmfao. No wrong. Fucking name droppers, probably don't know shit about mental illness. Would love to see yalls psychology degrees. Haha jk but I love you guys TLS users are awesome!

I'm not depressed. I don't like people. I'm very judge mental when it comes to people and I don't see most people have good intentions anyways. I choose not to have a social life because I don't want to be taken advantage of or anything.

Well, you certainly made a strong case for your soundness of mind. I stand corrected

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:Op here,

To the last person that replied, not UC Berkly, wow. 35 screeners is good. T14 your worth something. I am a low T1. I'm worth nothing because in reality low T1 students don't have much potential. You may make a good lawyer. Don't change for anyone stay the way you are. If people call it depression let them.

To the rest, I hate when people say I'm depressed or some shit wtf. You fucking hear the term mental illness and without knowing anything about the person, you fucking drop that word in an unrelated scenario and think that oh this person must be depressed because I heard the term mental illness somewhere without doing my research and knowing what it is, but this person probably is what it is, so I'm going to inappropriately drop that term here because it makes sense to. Lmfao. No wrong. Fucking name droppers, probably don't know shit about mental illness. Would love to see yalls psychology degrees. Haha jk but I love you guys TLS users are awesome!

I'm not depressed. I don't like people. I'm very judge mental when it comes to people and I don't see most people have good intentions anyways. I choose not to have a social life because I don't want to be taken advantage of or anything.

:|

I'm starting to think this is a flame.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby KunAgnis » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:25 am

Blackfish wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:drop out man. law school is not worth your mental health

accidental anon: this is blackfish

I don't think this advice is helpful. Perhaps OP will ultimately decide that dropping out is right for him, but he shouldn't make that decision with his current state of mind. You're assuming that law school is the direct cause of OP's depression, but that's not what it looks like to me. I don't think that dropping out will address OP's issues.


dude wanted biglaw from a T4 and struck out. he's unhappy there and the career path from a T4 for someone who struck out isnt looking that great either. whether LS is the root cause or not, dropping out of LS may be the step in the right direction both financially and mentally no?


He says he attends "a shitty T1." T1, imho, has pretty decent employment options if he truly is top 11%.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby sweets91 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:Op here,

To the last person that replied, not UC Berkly, wow. 35 screeners is good. T14 your worth something. I am a low T1. I'm worth nothing because in reality low T1 students don't have much potential. You may make a good lawyer. Don't change for anyone stay the way you are. If people call it depression let them.

To the rest, I hate when people say I'm depressed or some shit wtf. You fucking hear the term mental illness and without knowing anything about the person, you fucking drop that word in an unrelated scenario and think that oh this person must be depressed because I heard the term mental illness somewhere without doing my research and knowing what it is, but this person probably is what it is, so I'm going to inappropriately drop that term here because it makes sense to. Lmfao. No wrong. Fucking name droppers, probably don't know shit about mental illness. Would love to see yalls psychology degrees. Haha jk but I love you guys TLS users are awesome!

I'm not depressed. I don't like people. I'm very judge mental when it comes to people and I don't see most people have good intentions anyways. I choose not to have a social life because I don't want to be taken advantage of or anything.


Frankly, the first thing you need to fix is your mindset. I'm not talking about your own personal feelings of inadequacy, but the broad generalizations you apparently subscribe to, such as "you must be T14 to be worth something"

Secondly, work on your writing skills. I'm not saying this to be condescending or rude, especially because I don't know if English is your first language. That being said, make sure that you are at least getting someone to edit the emails you're sending out, your cover letters, and your resume. (I understand that it might just be high emotion and the fact that you're upset which is leading to the blatant grammatical and spelling errors in your posts, and if that's the case, then ignore this second point.)

As other posters have said, I don't think law school or OCI issues is the real problem here. No shame in seeking outside professional help

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby sweets91 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:30 am

NoBladesNoBows wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Op here,

To the last person that replied, not UC Berkly, wow. 35 screeners is good. T14 your worth something. I am a low T1. I'm worth nothing because in reality low T1 students don't have much potential. You may make a good lawyer. Don't change for anyone stay the way you are. If people call it depression let them.

To the rest, I hate when people say I'm depressed or some shit wtf. You fucking hear the term mental illness and without knowing anything about the person, you fucking drop that word in an unrelated scenario and think that oh this person must be depressed because I heard the term mental illness somewhere without doing my research and knowing what it is, but this person probably is what it is, so I'm going to inappropriately drop that term here because it makes sense to. Lmfao. No wrong. Fucking name droppers, probably don't know shit about mental illness. Would love to see yalls psychology degrees. Haha jk but I love you guys TLS users are awesome!

I'm not depressed. I don't like people. I'm very judge mental when it comes to people and I don't see most people have good intentions anyways. I choose not to have a social life because I don't want to be taken advantage of or anything.

:|

I'm starting to think this is a flame.


Also this

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:Op here,

To the last person that replied, not UC Berkly, wow. 35 screeners is good. T14 your worth something. I am a low T1. I'm worth nothing because in reality low T1 students don't have much potential. You may make a good lawyer. Don't change for anyone stay the way you are. If people call it depression let them.

To the rest, I hate when people say I'm depressed or some shit wtf. You fucking hear the term mental illness and without knowing anything about the person, you fucking drop that word in an unrelated scenario and think that oh this person must be depressed because I heard the term mental illness somewhere without doing my research and knowing what it is, but this person probably is what it is, so I'm going to inappropriately drop that term here because it makes sense to. Lmfao. No wrong. Fucking name droppers, probably don't know shit about mental illness. Would love to see yalls psychology degrees. Haha jk but I love you guys TLS users are awesome!

I'm not depressed. I don't like people. I'm very judge mental when it comes to people and I don't see most people have good intentions anyways. I choose not to have a social life because I don't want to be taken advantage of or anything.


Hey man,

Im pretty much the same way. I dont need to make friends or "go out" on the weekends; I am totally content just being alone and surfing the web in my unit, alone, or going for a jog. I just really don't care to take the initiative and meet people; I'd literally rather just go to class, then come home. I guess I'm introverted, but it doesn't feel forced or anything -- it's by choice. That said, I am still a "bro" and if someone introduces their-self to me, I seem like a totally regular guy.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:34 am

Op here,

Sorry for all the grammatical mistakes. Typing from an iPhone while doing a few other things doesn't really help. Also, while typing really fast, auto-correct seems to change some of the words.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Yo OP,

I am at a T14 and struck out at OCI, and it is absolutely devastating. I am MMing and trying to keep the light alive by having a few small firm interviews down the road lined up, but it is tough; really tough. I consider myself as someone with very strong motivation and someone that does not get "depressed" easily, at all.

However, sitting in class and hearing classmates talk to each other: "Yeah, I have a Gibson Dunn offer but I'm still waiting on Skadden. How are you doing? " "Great, accepted my offer yesterday at Jones Day -- hard to focus now on class haha" is crushing.

I'm sitting there listening to this, jealous as could be, depressed, mad, confused, totally unmotivated to listen in class.

You're not alone brother.


I am experiencing this exact same thing at UT.

Fellow student: "Oh my god, I am so frustrated."
Me: "What's wrong?"
Fellow student: "I am trying to convince Baker Botts to let me split my summer and they being stubborn."
Me: "Ohhh, yeah. Sorry to hear that......"

OP, I and thousands of others are feeling a similar pain. If it helps, as said above, you are definitely not alone. Keep mass mailing and be strong. As for seeking out psychiatric help, you can only benefit.



People are so insensitive when they do that shit.. "OMG I'm so stressed; I dont know if I should choose Skadden NY or Paul Weiss NY. Ughhhh. My Skadden offer expires in a week!"

Seriously? Two mega firms that are prestigious as hell, pay 180k plus bonus, and this guy is worried about the smallest details like "IS THE CULTURE REALLY THAT GREAT??" and "IS v5 VERSUS v15 EXIT OPTIONS THAT MUCH DIFFERENT??"

It's insane to hear students do this. At my T14, a kid blew up on the class fb page, basically saying how he was pissed of everyone talking about offers in class and shit.

Worst thing is these kids will be getting 3,500 a week this summer, while I'll probably working at a gov't organization for experience since I couldn't land a firm job.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:36 am

I'm at a T14 too, top 15%, law review, and struck out in my primary market. I felt like I clicked pretty well with most of my interviewers. The process is very demoralizing.

Many people get jobs during 3L or after they take the bar exam.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:39 am

I really hate how many applicants law firms interview....

Example: Local firm, pays 130k. They have THREE SPOTS FOR SUMMERS. They interview AT FIVE DIFFERENT SCHOOLS; 60 APPLICANT WRITE INS.
Probably have like 25 callbacks. It's so ridiculous.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:42 am

OP here,

To all those that think I'm a flame, I'm not. Hahahaha. I said the same thing about "mental illness." Same principle. What is a flame? You probably heard the term "flame" somewhere in your life, without knowing what it actually is, and now you want to drop what you heard to an unrelated scenario without actually knowing what it is. Lmao. Quit name dropping, if I'm a "flame" as you say, call me out then as a fake.

To the rest, thank you for understanding my pain. Nonny thank you. Seems like others are feeling this as well.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:20 am

.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby fauxpsych » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:25 am

This is straight up Axis II BS right here.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby zhenders » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:29 am

OP, with respect, reading your posts here in the most charitable light, you are either a bit chemically unbalanced right now which is manageable and very normal/treatable with a psychiatrist's help (notice no one here is pretending to prescribe you medicine -- many of us speak from experience in recommending you consult an expert to let them make an assessment), or you are a mean, hateful, spiteful person whose mean, hateful, spitefulness is likely the reason you didn't find the success you hoped.

Figure it out. You can improve your situation, but it starts with an objective self-assessment.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby Genius » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:32 am

My law school bestie went through something like this. We helped him stay in school and stick it out. Im glad we did

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:28 am

OP, I was the same way re: no social life, super introverted, dislike of people. Like you, I spent all my time reading/being alone and would never ever EVER network/do things. I was that kid growing up who stayed in at recess to study for the Spelling Bee, or who shot hoops alone because why bother with anyone else. The problem is that to succeed in this field you have to change. Is it fair? No, not really, but I realized that I was giving off a cold, negative energy to the people I came into contact with which, despite being top 5% of the class, was keeping me back.

So I got help. During 2L year I went to a therapist and I asked people to be honest with me about how I was coming off and where to improve and I started making small steps towards being a friendlier person. It started with chatting with baristas, finding easy ways to compliment people (watches are a great talking point, btw "Hey, I like your watch" is a great opener and people love to be complimented), and trying to find all the good in my life when things seemed super shitty. Eventually, these things become habits. It's true that every day I have to focus on my 'new' mindset, but I'm much happier overall as a person and landed big law as a 3L after screwing up OCI because of my attitude problem. So there is still hope!

The point here is that what you are describing is completely fixable if you are willing to accept that the world isn't going to adapt to you. I thought that my grades were going to be enough and employers would be happy to have me based on my resume. Incorrect. At top 11%, that means there are what? 15 students ranked below you? There are a lot of individuals in the top 10% when you add them all up across all the schools in the US. At the end of the day, employers have to work with you day in and day out. If you strut around being unsocial, people are going to think - rightly or wrongly - that you dislike them and that you aren't a team player.

Accepting that the problem lies with you can be a truly life changing experience. I sincerely hope you take the advice here and talk to someone who can guide you through the process. You aren't necessarily mentally ill, as others have implied (I took exactly zero medication and never even went to anybody capable of prescribing medications while I was sorting it all out), but I do think some perspective would do you good.

Good luck.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:09 am

rpupkin wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:I think it's possible that OP both is dealing with some mental health issues that s/he should address AND should consider dropping out of school.

Like Nony, I don't know whether OP should continue in law school. If you'll allow me a clumsy analogy: imagine a friend tells you that he wakes up every morning and he can't stand the sight of his wife, and he hates the way his breakfast takes, and he has no friends. Do you tell your friend that he should divorce his wife? I don't think so. I mean, maybe your friend is in a bad marriage, and maybe he would be better off without his wife, but it's clear that your friend has broader issues that are clouding his perception of all kinds of things. It's probably better to advise your friend to address the bigger issue (depression) before telling him to change discrete situations that may look quite different to your friend when he's not depressed.

To return to the OP's situation, it may well be that—even if law school is not the direct (or sole) cause of his depression—the OP cannot effectively treat his depression without taking a leave of absence from school. But none of us can figure that out based on his TLS posts. He needs to start with a professional.

Yeah, you're right. Having reread some of the posts in here I agree.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby Traynor Brah » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:36 am

zhenders wrote:OP, with respect, reading your posts here in the most charitable light, you are either a bit chemically unbalanced right now which is manageable and very normal/treatable with a psychiatrist's help (notice no one here is pretending to prescribe you medicine -- many of us speak from experience in recommending you consult an expert to let them make an assessment), or you are a mean, hateful, spiteful person whose mean, hateful, spitefulness is likely the reason you didn't find the success you hoped.

Figure it out. You can improve your situation, but it starts with an objective self-assessment.

+1

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby Dr. Nefario » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here,

To all those that think I'm a flame, I'm not. Hahahaha. I said the same thing about "mental illness." Same principle. What is a flame? You probably heard the term "flame" somewhere in your life, without knowing what it actually is, and now you want to drop what you heard to an unrelated scenario without actually knowing what it is. Lmao. Quit name dropping, if I'm a "flame" as you say, call me out then as a fake.

To the rest, thank you for understanding my pain. Nonny thank you. Seems like others are feeling this as well.


Feel free to PM me to talk or chat if you ever need anything. I've helped several friends with coping with the pain and working on themselves. I myself had a period of utter depression that was only overcome thanks to support of my SO and friends. You're clearly good enough for many many firms and can still be extremely helpful. The road starts with something like this post and coming to terms with everything. Now that you're here and sounding like you're taking some of the advice to heart, it will get better.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby 1styearlateral » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:The real lawyers are at HYS. The real legal minds. Not me.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby lnsl123 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:16 pm

.
Last edited by lnsl123 on Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Op here...

I'm not depressed. I don't like people. I'm very judge mental when it comes to people and I don't see most people have good intentions anyways. I choose not to have a social life because I don't want to be taken advantage of or anything.


these are tell-tale signs of some form of personality disorder, including paranoia, misanthropy, and other anti-social behaviors. It would be worth speaking to someone. Depression is probably not the right diagnosis, and I don't think this indicates you are "mentally ill", but you do have a personality problem and you could receive treatment. It's not normal to feel like the people in your life are out to get you and you have to avoid socializing by choice.

It would also help your career and your chances at employment to be less misanthropic and paranoid; you need to be able to network, present yourself in interviews, and at least attempt normal socialization.

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Re: Seriously thinking of quitting law school after 1L and OCI

Postby smallfirmassociate » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:15 pm

This isn't a mental health forum. People have the best of intentions, but I think OP has made it more than clear that he wants advice about law school and the legal profession from us, as people in law school and the legal profession. I'm not sure the insistence on telling him to get mental health help is constructive in this context. I figure he will see a professional no sooner than he is ready to. It's also dismissive to return all of his complaints back to some panacea of mental health help. Sure, it wouldn't hurt for him to see a professional, but there are other issues here as well.

OP, The big issue I see is your frustration that law hiring and practice are based on personalities. It's a very social field. It seems you were hoping to do well in school, keep to yourself, get a good job, and take care of your business. You're finding that the field is political, and it requires a certain stomach for schmoozing and networking. This leads to you needing to think about and research what type of law, if any, you want to practice. Once you identify something that might fit with your personality, then you can set a goal and pursue a certain career instead of just standing in the middle of the club pissed off that everyone else is going home with someone.



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