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Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:40 pm
by Anonymous User
Before the bar, we need to submit the Moral Character application. Do the contents (e.g. what is revealed in the process) of the application go to your previous or current employer at any point?

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:09 am
by rpupkin
No. Though the bar may contact your current employer and/or your past employers to verify information.

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:46 am
by Anonymous User
rpupkin wrote:No. Though the bar may contact your current employer and/or your past employers to verify information.

Would this ever be anything more than just verifying that you did in fact work there when you said you did? I know my previous employers (the large corps at least) won't even speak directly about their employees, and background checks get routed to a third-party verifier.

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:30 am
by rpupkin
Given the tenor of your questions, I think you need the following advice: don't get cute with your bar application. The fact that you're asking these questions suggests that you're hoping not to disclose possibly responsive information that is unfavorable to you in some way. That's not the way to go about this.

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:48 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
I can't say what your employers would/wouldn't say (it is very common for employers to do no more than verify dates of employment and I'm sure the bar is used to this, but bar certification isn't really the same as a former employee getting a new job). The bar may well try to verify something like why you left the job or what your job duties were, though. They may or may not be able to, again, depending on what the employer wants to do, but they certainly have the right to find out that info.

Like rpupkin says, just disclose everything. 99% of the things you're likely worried about disclosing to the bar won't matter anywhere near as much as if you try to cover them up.

If you're worried that the bar will, say, disclose your criminal history reported on the app to a current employer, no, that won't happen (but if at any point your current employer requests that info you shouldn't lie on that, either).

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:06 pm
by 1styearlateral
NYS processes something like 10,000 applications every year. It's the second largest bar exam taken next to California. Investigators don't look for extra work unless you give them a reason to. I highly doubt they contact employers at all unless there is some sort of irregularity. As A. Nony stated, trying to cover something up is way worse than just disclosing something. They will pull your law school application and possibly even all applications submitted for admission. Any inconsistencies between your law school app and bar app will be flagged.

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:05 pm
by Anonymous User
OP and second anon (me) are not the same. Can't speak for OP, but my assumption was not that he was necessarily thinking about screwing around on the bar, but that he was concerned about his employers reaction to something he was going to disclose. Could also be that he has an expunged charge that he doesn't want to disclose to employer (and is legally permitted not to do so) but is concerned they'll find out through bar app anyway. I could be totally off and maybe he is thinking about screwing around, but that's not the only explanation.

ETA: Might be helpful if you give some context OP.

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:09 pm
by cron1834
1styearlateral wrote:Any inconsistencies between your law school app and bar app will be flagged.

I hunch that this is the OP concern. If you puffed up job duties or titles on your LS app package, does the bar investigator verify that you were in fact the assistant regional manager instead of the assistant to the regional manager? Will they verify with Dunder Mifflin that this was your title? If you have a recommendation letter from your close buddy Michael Scott, will they call him/others and verify its contents?

I bet this puffing is pretty common...

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:10 pm
by rpupkin
Anonymous User wrote:I could be totally off and maybe he is thinking about screwing around, but that's not the only explanation.

The "explanation" is that you abused the anon feature and confused the posters who followed you in this thread, who made the reasonable assumption that you were the original anon.

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:34 pm
by 1styearlateral
cron1834 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:Any inconsistencies between your law school app and bar app will be flagged.

I hunch that this is the OP concern. If you puffed up job duties or titles on your LS app package, does the bar investigator verify that you were in fact the assistant regional manager instead of the assistant to the regional manager? Will they verify with Dunder Mifflin that this was your title? If you have a recommendation letter from your close buddy Michael Scott, will they call him/others and verify its contents?

I bet this puffing is pretty common...

I highly doubt it. NY only asks for legal employment, not all employment. Like I said, the investigators have bigger fish to fry. They're not worried about people with speeding tickets, minor academic infractions, or perhaps even drunk driving incidents. The people they're concerned with are those who do have those blemishes but attempt to hide them on their bar app because they think that disclosing such incidents will keep them from getting admitted. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and hiding otherwise benign past infractions only hurts an applicant and can (and likely will) hold up your admission or even keep you from getting admitted.

Since I only know about NY, I can safely recommend that when you're filling out your bar app, you have your law school app as well to make sure you're being consistent about answering similar questions. If something happened post-law school admission (e.g., speeding ticket), all you need to do is write your dean a letter disclosing the incident and to request a return letter stating that such an infraction would not have kept you from being admitted or from graduating with good status. The investigators are real hard asses and they're not really there to try and help you. If they have reason to kick back your application, they will.

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:48 pm
by cron1834
1styearlateral wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:Any inconsistencies between your law school app and bar app will be flagged.

I hunch that this is the OP concern. If you puffed up job duties or titles on your LS app package, does the bar investigator verify that you were in fact the assistant regional manager instead of the assistant to the regional manager? Will they verify with Dunder Mifflin that this was your title? If you have a recommendation letter from your close buddy Michael Scott, will they call him/others and verify its contents?

I bet this puffing is pretty common...

I highly doubt it. NY only asks for legal employment, not all employment. Like I said, the investigators have bigger fish to fry. They're not worried about people with speeding tickets, minor academic infractions, or perhaps even drunk driving incidents. The people they're concerned with are those who do have those blemishes but attempt to hide them on their bar app because they think that disclosing such incidents will keep them from getting admitted. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and hiding otherwise benign past infractions only hurts an applicant and can (and likely will) hold up your admission or even keep you from getting admitted.

Since I only know about NY, I can safely recommend that when you're filling out your bar app, you have your law school app as well to make sure you're being consistent about answering similar questions. If something happened post-law school admission (e.g., speeding ticket), all you need to do is write your dean a letter disclosing the incident and to request a return letter stating that such an infraction would not have kept you from being admitted or from graduating with good status. The investigators are real hard asses and they're not really there to try and help you. If they have reason to kick back your application, they will.

NY app definitely asks for non-legal employers for the previous 10 years... at least the version I just downloaded does. What I think OP is getting at is this: Dwight Shrute already put down "assistant regional manager" and a description of duties on his LS app and rec letter/resume/whatever... what should he do on his bar app? Are they gonna call to verify that? Putting down "assistant to the regional manager" on the bar app would automatically trigger a difference between that and the LS app.

Edit - I'm not OP and I don't know what OP's situation is, but that's kinda what I assumed he/she was driving at. I could be wrong.

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:00 pm
by 1styearlateral
cron1834 wrote:NY app definitely asks for non-legal employers for the previous 10 years... at least the version I just downloaded does. What I think OP is getting at is this: Dwight Shrute already put down "assistant regional manager" and a description of duties on his LS app and rec letter/resume/whatever... what should he do on his bar app? Are they gonna call to verify that? Putting down "assistant to the regional manager" on the bar app would automatically trigger a difference between that and the LS app.

Edit - I'm not OP and I don't know what OP's situation is, but that's kinda what I assumed he/she was driving at. I could be wrong.

If it were me, I would be putting down on my bar app exactly what I put down on my LS app. NY doesn't ask for a resume so you can put down whatever you want for post-LS app employment, although I would try to be as accurate as possible. Anything incredulous is likely to raise some concern.

The underlying point is: Be truthful and accurate.

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:59 am
by Anonymous User
cron1834 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:Any inconsistencies between your law school app and bar app will be flagged.

Edit - I'm not OP and I don't know what OP's situation is, but that's kinda what I assumed he/she was driving at. I could be wrong.


I am OP. What if a student stupidly stated incorrect information on his/her law school app but such incorrect information would have impacted negatively, not positively, on his/her LS application. Say, taking your example, that person stated an assistant TO regional manager in his/her LS app when she/he was in fact an assistant regional manager. Then what?

In addition, what if a person has a criminal or civil charge and discloses it on the bar app. Does this disclosed information go to your current employer? That was my question.

Re: Does the Moral Character for the bar go to your employer?

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:05 pm
by rpupkin
Anonymous User wrote:I am OP. What if a student stupidly stated incorrect information on his/her law school app but such incorrect information would have impacted negatively, not positively, on his/her LS application. Say, taking your example, that person stated an assistant TO regional manager in his/her LS app when she/he was in fact an assistant regional manager. Then what?

(Dwight Schrute)

Seriously, I cannot imagine that such a job title discrepancy would matter.

And, no, criminal/civil infractions disclosed on your bar application do not go to your previous or current employer. But if your current employer is a legal employer, and if they asked for (and yet you failed to disclose) past infractions, you probably should fix that, like, now.