Accepted too many offers

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SowhatsNU

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby SowhatsNU » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:29 pm

This is amazing. By far best thing I've read all day.

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Dr. Nefario

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby Dr. Nefario » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:31 pm

Bluem_11 wrote:Apparently those good law school grades didn't teach you how to read rules and contracts.

Your OCS, NALP and the firm's offers lay out your options pretty clearly as one poster listed above. If first firm isn't a NALP firm you may get off easy, otherwise, they could bitch to your OCS. The NALP guidelines are not law, but there is pressure to follow them in my experience.

How does this affect you? Well if the V10 cold offers you, which seems like a greater than 0% chance, don't expect much help from your school finding a 2nd option. In my experience, having people at your school get irked at your character is not the best way to get licensed. I've seen professors/admins file complaints to the bar during applications if they see multiple incidents of questionable character. While schools care about students getting accredited and work, they care more about not having ""X caught embezzling client's funds. X is a recent graduate of Y Law School" in the paper.


Hate to hijack (well honestly not really based on this ridiculous decision op made), but what is a cold offer? I see it a lot, but, based on your use, I think I have the wrong meaning.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:42 pm

Dr. Nefario wrote:
Bluem_11 wrote:Apparently those good law school grades didn't teach you how to read rules and contracts.

Your OCS, NALP and the firm's offers lay out your options pretty clearly as one poster listed above. If first firm isn't a NALP firm you may get off easy, otherwise, they could bitch to your OCS. The NALP guidelines are not law, but there is pressure to follow them in my experience.

How does this affect you? Well if the V10 cold offers you, which seems like a greater than 0% chance, don't expect much help from your school finding a 2nd option. In my experience, having people at your school get irked at your character is not the best way to get licensed. I've seen professors/admins file complaints to the bar during applications if they see multiple incidents of questionable character. While schools care about students getting accredited and work, they care more about not having ""X caught embezzling client's funds. X is a recent graduate of Y Law School" in the paper.


Hate to hijack (well honestly not really based on this ridiculous decision op made), but what is a cold offer? I see it a lot, but, based on your use, I think I have the wrong meaning.


When at the end of your summer associate gig the law firm gives you a "cold offer" to return, aka you can but shouldn't. It keeps their numbers up so they look good

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby Double Trouble » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:55 pm

Wow. This thread is Exhibit A for the discrimination that non-T14 students face in the legal world. I work hard and succeed, and therefore I am an "asshole" and a "dumbass." Two posters said they "hate" me. I've come to expect this kind of reaction from the more middling students at my own law school, but I frankly expected a more sympathetic response from TLS. Live and learn.

As for the poster who asked about the market I'm in, I don't want to get too specific because, as is apparent from this thread, my actions are controversial. But my law school is in a major market city, and both offers I've accepted are in that same city.

Also, some seem to be assuming that I want to go to the V10 instead of the first firm that I accepted an offer from, but I am not certain of that. The first firm is less prestigious but has a better overall feel. That's what makes this situation so challenging for me.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby lavarman84 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:57 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:I think the overall lack of self awareness is more annoying.. The "I go to lesser school so declining an offer (after I already have accepted one) would be so hard" mantra is asinine. Also, who the hell keeps offers open - seemingly for weeks after already accepting an offer.


Yea. Plus, it doesn't come off as honest. If it was solely out of curiosity, OP would not have accepted the offer.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby lavarman84 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:01 am

Double Trouble wrote:Wow. This thread is Exhibit A for the discrimination that non-T14 students face in the legal world. I work hard and succeed, and therefore I am an "asshole" and a "dumbass." Two posters said they "hate" me. I've come to expect this kind of reaction from the more middling students at my own law school, but I frankly expected a more sympathetic response from TLS. Live and learn.

As for the poster who asked about the market I'm in, I don't want to get too specific because, as is apparent from this thread, my actions are controversial. But my law school is in a major market city, and both offers I've accepted are in that same city.

Also, some seem to be assuming that I want to go to the V10 instead of the first firm that I accepted an offer from, but I am not certain of that. The first firm is less prestigious but has a better overall feel. That's what makes this situation so challenging for me.


No, it's not. You brought this on yourself. You couldn't do something that was both simple and ethical. You're not going to get a sympathetic response from anyone. Nobody is going to feel sorry for you. Make your decision and inform the firm you aren't choosing so they can offer somebody else. It's really not a hard decision. Choose the firm you prefer. You're an adult. You can handle this decision.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:03 am

this is clearly a flame yall

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby FSK » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:04 am

Yeah. You fucked up. Plain as day. Own it, like the professional you're ostensibly trying to become.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby Bluem_11 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:05 am

Double Trouble wrote:Wow. This thread is Exhibit A for the discrimination that non-T14 students face in the legal world. I work hard and succeed, and therefore I am an "asshole" and a "dumbass."


When you promise to work on a client's case, take on another because it's from a Fortune 10 client even thought you don't have the time, miss a deadline for first client, get a complaint to your bar for lack of diligence, make sure to explain to them that the complaint is due to non-T14 discrimination.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby RaceJudicata » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:26 am

Double Trouble wrote:Wow. This thread is Exhibit A for the discrimination that non-T14 students face in the legal world. I work hard and succeed, and therefore I am an "asshole" and a "dumbass." Two posters said they "hate" me. I've come to expect this kind of reaction from the more middling students at my own law school, but I frankly expected a more sympathetic response from TLS. Live and learn.

As for the poster who asked about the market I'm in, I don't want to get too specific because, as is apparent from this thread, my actions are controversial. But my law school is in a major market city, and both offers I've accepted are in that same city.

Also, some seem to be assuming that I want to go to the V10 instead of the first firm that I accepted an offer from, but I am not certain of that. The first firm is less prestigious but has a better overall feel. That's what makes this situation so challenging for me.


No. I, for one, share the general consensus in this thread - that you are a fool (if you are real and not flame).

- T2 law student who was capable of accepting only one offer and declining offers from VAULT firms.

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:27 am

Double Trouble wrote:Wow. This thread is Exhibit A for the discrimination that non-T14 students face in the legal world. I work hard and succeed, and therefore I am an "asshole" and a "dumbass." Two posters said they "hate" me. I've come to expect this kind of reaction from the more middling students at my own law school, but I frankly expected a more sympathetic response from TLS. Live and learn.

As for the poster who asked about the market I'm in, I don't want to get too specific because, as is apparent from this thread, my actions are controversial. But my law school is in a major market city, and both offers I've accepted are in that same city.

Also, some seem to be assuming that I want to go to the V10 instead of the first firm that I accepted an offer from, but I am not certain of that. The first firm is less prestigious but has a better overall feel. That's what makes this situation so challenging for me.


Yeah, the ire you earned has literally nothing to do with the fact that you managed to get offers from a non-T14. I guarantee you, everybody ITT would still think you're an unethical jackass if you're at Yale.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:38 am

You are a human being and made a mistake. All of us have made mistakes and I'm certainly not one to belittle you or "hate" you for making one. Pick where you want to work and notify the other firm that you are rescinding your acceptance. They'll have you replaced rather quickly with someone that is excited to get the spot that you are currently occupying. What is done is done, move forward. Good luck with whichever one you choose.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby JusticeJackson » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:53 am

I don't get the tone of this thread. So he screwed over some firm. Guess what? The firm has 1000s of other super capable people jumping to take his place. It's a minor inconvenience for them. He can't do both summer gigs so he'll back out of one and the other firm will probably give an offer to someone else. So it's not like he took a job out of the national economy.

I agree that he should have known what his #1 choice was when he accepted his first offer. But he was on the fence. He wasn't 100% sure. It happens.

And lol at this backfiring. You know what I'd say if some friend of mine at another firm called and said "hey Jim accepted here but that asshole backed out and went to your firm you should punish him"? I'd say "haha I'm not going to punish him for coming here. For Christs sake we get resumes from associates at your firm every time we post an opening. What the fuck is the difference between what Jim did and what your associates do when they try to lateral here even though they accepted your offer and then worked for you for the last few years?"

I'm sure people will disagree. I just don't feel bad for firms. Maybe it's because I've seen how dollars and cents my firm is in hiring. Maybe it's because I've seen my coworkers stealthed and no offered for minuscule bullshit. Maybe it's because I've screened resumes and seen that we get 1000 competent resumes for every opening. Maybe it's because I'm on my third Jack Daniels and I'm jaded that Oregon is going to win tonight.

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sweets91

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby sweets91 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:54 am

Double Trouble wrote:Wow. This thread is Exhibit A for the discrimination that non-T14 students face in the legal world. I work hard and succeed, and therefore I am an "asshole" and a "dumbass." Two posters said they "hate" me. I've come to expect this kind of reaction from the more middling students at my own law school, but I frankly expected a more sympathetic response from TLS. Live and learn.

As for the poster who asked about the market I'm in, I don't want to get too specific because, as is apparent from this thread, my actions are controversial. But my law school is in a major market city, and both offers I've accepted are in that same city.

Also, some seem to be assuming that I want to go to the V10 instead of the first firm that I accepted an offer from, but I am not certain of that. The first firm is less prestigious but has a better overall feel. That's what makes this situation so challenging for me.


This just seems like a blatant lie. If you really preferred the first firm, you wouldn't (and definitely shouldn't) have accepted the second offer...

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:55 am

Double Trouble wrote:Brave use of anon, jerk.

I think it's hard for some people to appreciate what it's like to succeed at a lower-ranked school. When I was considering where to go to law school, I was told on TLS that my school is a "dumpster fire." I was basically told that I would ruin my life if I enrolled. Well guess what? I worked hard and dominated most of my classes. I overcame the odds. I'm sure it's easy for someone at a T6 to turn down a V10 offer, but it's not that easy for me.


Double Trouble wrote:Brave use of anon, jerk.

I think it's hard for some people to appreciate what it's like to succeed at a lower-ranked school. When I was considering where to go to law school, I was told on TLS that my school is a "dumpster fire." I was basically told that I would ruin my life if I enrolled. Well guess what? I worked hard and dominated most of my classes. I overcame the odds. I'm sure it's easy for someone at a T6 to turn down a V10 offer, but it's not that easy for me.


V10 doesn't mean anything, either at a T6 or a TTT.

You fucked up. I'm not saying that to be a jerk, it's just something you should accept sooner rather than later. Accepting the first offer when you had other firms you wanted to keep on the table was a mistake, when you could have safely waited and alerted the other firms of your offer expiration deadline. Despite your academic accomplishments, you have put your future at any firm at risk by not thinking through your decision.

Unlike the poster above, I do hope you resolve this and I don't hope you wind up working at Arby's. People deserve the benefit of the doubt and should be able to make up for their mistakes. If you don't recognize that you acted carelessly and drop the "you would do the same in my position" schtick, that attitude will place you in a lot of precarious situations in the future. Law is not for the rash.

Now as to your predicament: if both firms are in the same market, they will not allow you to split. You should consult with OCS and draft a very careful letter to the first firm you accepted at explaining you will be withdrawing. You need to do this as quickly as possible; the longer you have two offers accepted, the more inappropriate this becomes.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby lavarman84 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:57 am

JusticeJackson wrote:I don't get the tone of this thread. So he screwed over some firm. Guess what? The firm has 1000s of other super capable people jumping to take his place. It's a minor inconvenience for them. He can't do both summer gigs so he'll back out of one and the other firm will probably give an offer to someone else. So it's not like he took a job out of the national economy.

I agree that he should have known what his #1 choice was when he accepted his first offer. But he was on the fence. He wasn't 100% sure. It happens.

And lol at this backfiring. You know what I'd say if some friend of mine at another firm called and said "hey Jim accepted here but that asshole backed out and went to your firm you should punish him"? I'd say "haha I'm not going to punish him for coming here. For Christs sake we get resumes from associates at your firm every time we post an opening. What the fuck is the difference between what Jim did and what your associates do when they try to lateral here even though they accepted your offer and then worked for you for the last few years?"

I'm sure people will disagree. I just don't feel bad for firms. Maybe it's because I've seen how dollars and cents my firm is in hiring. Maybe it's because I've seen my coworkers stealthed and no offered for minuscule bullshit. Maybe it's because I've screened resumes and seen that we get 1000 competent resumes for every opening. Maybe it's because I'm on my third Jack Daniels and I'm jaded that Oregon is going to win tonight.


Nobody feels bad for the firms. The only real sympathy I have for any party here is the person who has to wait for OP to give up one of his or her two acceptances for them to get a job. People just aren't sympathetic towards OP for the way he or she handled things.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby izha » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:20 am

bluthmodelhome wrote:
izha wrote:
Double Trouble wrote:I exceeded expectations and did very well at OCI. Despite going to a school that is not a T14 (or even a T30), I got six call backs.

Last month, I got an offer from one of the firms I did a callback with that was my top choice. I accepted the offer. I informed all the other firms I had callbacks with, except for two: a V10 firm and a V20 firm. To be honest, I was curious to see whether I would end up getting an offer at a highly ranked firm.

Last week, I got a call from a partner I had interviewed with at the V10. Even though it had been over two weeks since my callback, I got an offer! I was super excited and accepted on the spot. Part of it was due to excitement, but part of it was also due to the fact that I've been reading more about firms lately and I'm beginning to think that the V10 will open more doors for me.

So I've now accepted offers from two firms. I know that my first firm does not allow splitting (I'm not sure about the policy of the V10). Has anyone been in this situation before? How long before I must commit to one firm? I'd like to keep my options open for as long as possible.

Law firms wouldn't hesitate not to offer you if they thought that would be in their best interests. You should treat them the same way. Decide which offer you like more and say "sorry" to another firm. Those who "hate" you are just jealous and bring ethical pontifications to justify that.

not offering =/= revoking a candidate's offer, which is the equivalent of what OP is doing here.

Irrelevant. They don't care about him, he shouldn't care about them. Just a business.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:40 am

jbagelboy wrote:
Double Trouble wrote:Brave use of anon, jerk.

I think it's hard for some people to appreciate what it's like to succeed at a lower-ranked school. When I was considering where to go to law school, I was told on TLS that my school is a "dumpster fire." I was basically told that I would ruin my life if I enrolled. Well guess what? I worked hard and dominated most of my classes. I overcame the odds. I'm sure it's easy for someone at a T6 to turn down a V10 offer, but it's not that easy for me.


Double Trouble wrote:Brave use of anon, jerk.

I think it's hard for some people to appreciate what it's like to succeed at a lower-ranked school. When I was considering where to go to law school, I was told on TLS that my school is a "dumpster fire." I was basically told that I would ruin my life if I enrolled. Well guess what? I worked hard and dominated most of my classes. I overcame the odds. I'm sure it's easy for someone at a T6 to turn down a V10 offer, but it's not that easy for me.


V10 doesn't mean anything, either at a T6 or a TTT.

You fucked up. I'm not saying that to be a jerk, it's just something you should accept sooner rather than later. Accepting the first offer when you had other firms you wanted to keep on the table was a mistake, when you could have safely waited and alerted the other firms of your offer expiration deadline. Despite your academic accomplishments, you have put your future at any firm at risk by not thinking through your decision.

Unlike the poster above, I do hope you resolve this and I don't hope you wind up working at Arby's. People deserve the benefit of the doubt and should be able to make up for their mistakes. If you don't recognize that you acted carelessly and drop the "you would do the same in my position" schtick, that attitude will place you in a lot of precarious situations in the future. Law is not for the rash.

Now as to your predicament: if both firms are in the same market, they will not allow you to split. You should consult with OCS and draft a very careful letter to the first firm you accepted at explaining you will be withdrawing. You need to do this as quickly as possible; the longer you have two offers accepted, the more inappropriate this becomes.

^ this is the best post in this thread and OP should take it to heart

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby Jchance » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:27 am

I'm back to my original hunch given how much attention this thread has gotten: definitely flame

/thread

run26.2

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby run26.2 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:27 am

To the person upthread who encouraged OP to lie, you should rethink recommending that strategy to soon-to-be attorneys. Giving or taking that advice could have consequences from the bar you are eventually seek to join.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:35 am

izha wrote:
bluthmodelhome wrote:
izha wrote:
Double Trouble wrote:I exceeded expectations and did very well at OCI. Despite going to a school that is not a T14 (or even a T30), I got six call backs.

Last month, I got an offer from one of the firms I did a callback with that was my top choice. I accepted the offer. I informed all the other firms I had callbacks with, except for two: a V10 firm and a V20 firm. To be honest, I was curious to see whether I would end up getting an offer at a highly ranked firm.

Last week, I got a call from a partner I had interviewed with at the V10. Even though it had been over two weeks since my callback, I got an offer! I was super excited and accepted on the spot. Part of it was due to excitement, but part of it was also due to the fact that I've been reading more about firms lately and I'm beginning to think that the V10 will open more doors for me.

So I've now accepted offers from two firms. I know that my first firm does not allow splitting (I'm not sure about the policy of the V10). Has anyone been in this situation before? How long before I must commit to one firm? I'd like to keep my options open for as long as possible.

Law firms wouldn't hesitate not to offer you if they thought that would be in their best interests. You should treat them the same way. Decide which offer you like more and say "sorry" to another firm. Those who "hate" you are just jealous and bring ethical pontifications to justify that.

not offering =/= revoking a candidate's offer, which is the equivalent of what OP is doing here.

Irrelevant. They don't care about him, he shouldn't care about them. Just a business.


Okay, so if you accept a firm offer and stop searching for more jobs, and then they revoke your offer sometime in January, no hard feelings, it's just business?

And people are calling the OP an ass because he's ruining it for other law students, not the firms.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby Minnietron » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:44 am

Jchance wrote:I'm back to my original hunch given how much attention this thread has gotten: definitely flame

/thread


After making the mistake of engaging with OP, I'm with you. There is, potentially, a way to find out. OP essentially admitted this was an Alt account - it is unlikely their original username was "Double Trouble," and they sought admissions advice anonymously under said username. Mods...

Double Trouble wrote:Brave use of anon, jerk.

I think it's hard for some people to appreciate what it's like to succeed at a lower-ranked school. When I was considering where to go to law school, I was told on TLS that my school is a "dumpster fire." I was basically told that I would ruin my life if I enrolled. Well guess what? I worked hard and dominated most of my classes. I overcame the odds. I'm sure it's easy for someone at a T6 to turn down a V10 offer, but it's not that easy for me.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby Hikikomorist » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:57 am

Minnietron wrote:
Jchance wrote:I'm back to my original hunch given how much attention this thread has gotten: definitely flame

/thread


After making the mistake of engaging with OP, I'm with you. There is, potentially, a way to find out. OP essentially admitted this was an Alt account - it is unlikely their original username was "Double Trouble," and they sought admissions advice anonymously under said username. Mods...

Double Trouble wrote:Brave use of anon, jerk.

I think it's hard for some people to appreciate what it's like to succeed at a lower-ranked school. When I was considering where to go to law school, I was told on TLS that my school is a "dumpster fire." I was basically told that I would ruin my life if I enrolled. Well guess what? I worked hard and dominated most of my classes. I overcame the odds. I'm sure it's easy for someone at a T6 to turn down a V10 offer, but it's not that easy for me.

I'm guessing it's clshopeful.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby JusticeJackson » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:59 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:And people are calling the OP an ass because he's ruining it for other law students, not the firms.


I don't think he's ruining anything for other law students. I doubt the job will just go away. The firm will probably now offer it to someone else.

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Re: Accepted too many offers

Postby dabigchina » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:40 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:I'm guessing it's clshopeful.


I believe that guy transferred to Berkeley.

JusticeJackson wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:And people are calling the OP an ass because he's ruining it for other law students, not the firms.


I don't think he's ruining anything for other law students. I doubt the job will just go away. The firm will probably now offer it to someone else.


sort of, if this is a smaller market it's conceivable that the firm ended recruitment once they hit their yield. In either case, OP wants to keep both firms on the hook for as long as possible, which would definitely fuck over other candidates. I think that's what is pissing people off the most; not the fact that he is stupid, but because he seems to think this is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.



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