lets set the record straight with these thank yous

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:36 am

Winter is Coming wrote:A person told you in an interview that they expected a thank you note? That's actually insane.


No it was one of those "Job Hunt Advice Panel from Interviewing Attorneys" type lunch events during 1L. At this panel, one was like "lol I don't give a shit about ty letters." The other attorney, the one I'm talking about, was like "I always get them and am offended if I don't." So YMMV. The former is far more abundant than the latter, but it's not like the latter doesn't exist.

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mjb447

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby mjb447 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:52 am

Bluem_11 wrote:It's case by case. I think in general most lawyers don't care from ones I talk to. I tell applicants to not send me one.

However here is my anecdote. When I was doing OCI on a callback the hiring partner was talking to me about hI ring criteria. He mentioned how things are close calls between candidates and how one girl had wrote such a thoughtful and detailed thank you note to each attorney it gave her a mild edge in the decision process. I at the time and still do think that was bull shit decision making, but finding perfect consensus in any part of life isn't easy. I wrote thank you notes on that CB.

I think thank you notes are more helpful if you can actually make them "thoughtful and detailed," but I generally didn't come away from interviews with enough to produce a particularly thoughtful, detailed note.

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:03 am

I really think they're unnecessary. Also borderline impossible. A lot of people will have 10+ callbacks during EIP. How on earth are you supposed to crank out 50 thank you notes?

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby FSK » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:35 pm

Its like 75% to not matter, but more importantly if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer.
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I really think they're unnecessary. Also borderline impossible. A lot of people will have 10+ callbacks during EIP. How on earth are you supposed to crank out 50 thank you notes?

I don't think they're at all necessary but I also don't think this is the reason why. It's not impossible to write ~50 thank you notes at all.

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:03 pm

This is kind of how it works at some big firms. You interview with an associate at a firm. You leave the firm. Associate gets back to frantically getting back to work so he or she can have a weekend. An hour or two after you leave, the associate gets a survey from recruiting that they fill out. The next day the associate gets your thank you.

A lot of times the decision is made within hours of the interview after recruiting gets all of the surveys back, and this is where the people who interviewed you involvement ends. So I would not fret other way. I think in the lateral hiring process it is a bit different.

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rpupkin

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby rpupkin » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:12 pm

FSK wrote:Its like 75% to not matter, but more importantly if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer.

I'd change your 75% to 99%. And LOL @ this idea that "if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer." I'm in litigation, and probably 75% of the emails I receive from lawyers—and probably 95% of the court filings I read—have at least one typo in them.

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby foregetaboutdre » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:18 pm

Here's how I look at it:

I am from a secondary market. I'm not sure what the custom is for the secondary market - but I send thank you notes if I get a "sense" the interviewer will respond and appreciate them. Usually you can kind of "tell" this.

But in large markets and normal large firms (in my secondary market), I do NOT see a point in sending TYs. My career services says to send them to EVERY CB interviewer and also to go to the bathroom so you can get some notes about convos you had with attorneys. I think this is borderline crazy.

I hate the "attorneys have to write perfectly w/o any mistakes" line too about TYs. TYs are bound to have errors/mistakes because at least IME they are written after a long ass day of interviewing and your mine will be pretty exhausted (esp. if you have to travel). And IF you make a trivial mistake (I've done this where I forgot to include a ".") you will undoubtly have your night/day ruined. Luckily in my case I don't think the attny noticed it.

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heythatslife

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby heythatslife » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:25 am

Winter is Coming wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:It's probably true that in NYC nobody gives a shit, but you can't definitively say "well I got 3 offers and didn't send thank yous so that's that"! I mean come on people.

People who can get biglaw offers without thank-you notes even if thank-you notes happen to matter somewhat:

- Top students at T14, or grades/pedigree substantially above the average offeree of said firm
- Excellent interviews
- Strong ties to the firm or local market
- Excellent work experience and resume
- Has judicial clerkship lined up (similar to top student)
- Lucky

Thank-you notes may make a positive impact even if the review is submitted the moment you walk out of the office if your interviewer is on the hiring committee and attends the meetings where they decide who to give offers to.

It's not black and white.

Personally, I didn't send thank-you notes, although I only applied to NYC. If I applied to a smaller, highly selective firm (for my credentials), I would. I've said in another thread that at a panel, an interviewer from Locke Lord (tip for anybody applying there) explicitly said that she expects thank-you notes. Maybe she's an oddity. I hope she is. You can feel confident in not sending thank-you notes if your grades, interview, or whatever else make you a strong applicant. If you're below the firm's grade cutoff and manage to swing a screener, I'm not going to tell you a thank-you note is 100% a bad idea, so long as it's well written and proofread.

My answer? It depends. It depends on the firm and its location, it depends on the interviewer, it depends on how the interview went, and it depends on the strength of your application.


A person told you in an interview that they expected a thank you note? That's actually insane.

I also heard a hiring partner at a non-NYC Vault firm say that he doesn't appreciate thank you notes because they waste his time and he advised people not to bother with them because you could only end up shooting yourself in the foot. The lesson is that there's no one-size-fits-all solution here, and unfortunately you seldom know which is the right approach ex ante.

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Eldon Tyrell

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby Eldon Tyrell » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:29 am

I'm glad you set the record straight. Really cleared up this topic.

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:44 am

rpupkin wrote:
FSK wrote:Its like 75% to not matter, but more importantly if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer.

I'd change your 75% to 99%. And LOL @ this idea that "if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer." I'm in litigation, and probably 75% of the emails I receive from lawyers—and probably 95% of the court filings I read—have at least one typo in them.


Depends on the market and the size of the firm. It's less important for biglaw than it is for small and mid-sized firms.

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby FSK » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:01 am

rpupkin wrote:
FSK wrote:Its like 75% to not matter, but more importantly if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer.

I'd change your 75% to 99%. And LOL @ this idea that "if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer." I'm in litigation, and probably 75% of the emails I receive from lawyers—and probably 95% of the court filings I read—have at least one typo in them.


Nah, I'm willing to expect you can write one perfect paragraph when you know its important. Very different than both your examples.
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:Three NYC offers, no letters

+1

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rpupkin

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby rpupkin » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:23 am

FSK wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
FSK wrote:Its like 75% to not matter, but more importantly if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer.

I'd change your 75% to 99%. And LOL @ this idea that "if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer." I'm in litigation, and probably 75% of the emails I receive from lawyers—and probably 95% of the court filings I read—have at least one typo in them.


Nah, I'm willing to expect you can write one perfect paragraph when you know its important. Very different than both your examples.

Court filings aren't important?

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby JenDarby » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:29 am

I didn't/wouldn't do them for large firms, but I did send a couple thank you emails after I interviewed with the hedge fund where I currently work. A managing partner IMMEDIATELY responded to me and started a conversation about random personal stuff, and I got an offer the next day. After getting to know everyone I'm sure the GC didn't give a shit about my thank you but that it did make a difference to the managing partner.

There's really no hardline rule. Just your judgment and don't worry about it.

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby FSK » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:01 pm

rpupkin wrote:
FSK wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
FSK wrote:Its like 75% to not matter, but more importantly if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer.

I'd change your 75% to 99%. And LOL @ this idea that "if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer." I'm in litigation, and probably 75% of the emails I receive from lawyers—and probably 95% of the court filings I read—have at least one typo in them.


Nah, I'm willing to expect you can write one perfect paragraph when you know its important. Very different than both your examples.

Court filings aren't important?


Every material court filing is at least twice as long as a thank you note and doesn't carry the weight of your entire career.

I'm not going to litigate the case of thank you notes with you tho. No way jose.
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rpupkin

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby rpupkin » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:04 pm

FSK wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
FSK wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
FSK wrote:Its like 75% to not matter, but more importantly if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer.

I'd change your 75% to 99%. And LOL @ this idea that "if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer." I'm in litigation, and probably 75% of the emails I receive from lawyers—and probably 95% of the court filings I read—have at least one typo in them.


Nah, I'm willing to expect you can write one perfect paragraph when you know its important. Very different than both your examples.

Court filings aren't important?


Every material court filing is at least twice as long as a thank you note and doesn't carry the weight of your entire career.
.

But that just begs the question. You're assuming that thank you notes are material. Look, I'm not as anti-thank-you-note as some folks are. I basically endorse JenDarby's "use your judgment and don't worry about it" approach. But I do get annoyed by boomerisms like "if you can't avoid typos in X document, then how can you expect to be a lawyer?"

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby FSK » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:27 pm

rpupkin wrote:
FSK wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
FSK wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
FSK wrote:Its like 75% to not matter, but more importantly if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer.

I'd change your 75% to 99%. And LOL @ this idea that "if you can't proofread a thank you letter to a potential employer how the hell are you going to be a lawyer." I'm in litigation, and probably 75% of the emails I receive from lawyers—and probably 95% of the court filings I read—have at least one typo in them.


Nah, I'm willing to expect you can write one perfect paragraph when you know its important. Very different than both your examples.

Court filings aren't important?


Every material court filing is at least twice as long as a thank you note and doesn't carry the weight of your entire career.
.

But that just begs the question. You're assuming that thank you notes are material. Look, I'm not as anti-thank-you-note as some folks are. I basically endorse JenDarby's "use your judgment and don't worry about it" approach. But I do get annoyed by boomerisms like "if you can't avoid typos in X document, then how can you expect to be a lawyer?"


Not litigating this further. I do not care enough. I don't send them.
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SemperLegal

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Re: lets set the record straight with these thank yous

Postby SemperLegal » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:56 pm

I normally submit my evaul before the candidate is even out of the elevator, because my firm does OCI at a breakneck speed, so it doesn't strictly matter.

That said, I took an hour of unbillable time to assess you, a simple "It was nice to meet you, I hope we get a chance to work together" is appreciated, even if you don't get a cookie for it. It also helps (and motivates) in the few, but not rare, instances where I want to follow up (either to gain more info or to tip you off as to fatal errors.



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