Offer revoked

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rpupkin

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby rpupkin » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:25 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Don't out the firm. It won't help you.

Agreed. Outing the firm can only hurt you. I would mention what happened to your career services office and leave it at that.

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:41 pm

Occam's Razor suggests:

1. It wasn't HR who pulled the plug. HR responds to managing partners, not the other way around.
Most likely case is:
2. One partner made assumptions when he offered you, then they had a meeting and the hire got squashed due to:
a. bad firm economics / outlook
b. someone's family member or friend got hired instead
c. your GPA (highly doubtful)
d. they found something they didn't like about you through further research

Now I'm staying anon to tell this story, to provide a little schadenfreude. I was no-offered as a 2L, with the firm telling me that it couldn't afford to hire an associate. I ended up having a friend / well-qualified practicing attorney who told me a few months later that he wanted to work in that market, and I hooked him up with one of their competing firms. He got to know some of the partners at my 2L firm, and one of them told him, "I wish we knew you were trying to come here, we could have hired you." And he was like, "Well, my friend is X, and he told me you weren't hiring." He said the look on the partner's face was priceless. Because my friend is a terrible instigator, he then told them that I was one of the smartest people he knows and that I'll be an awesome attorney, so they really missed out. The way he told the story...imagine Louis C.K.'s show level of awkwardness in that conversation.

I doubt that makes you feel any better, but what the fuck else can I say? It sucks. All you can do is keep slogging and hope that maybe, just maybe, you end up with something else and look back with the feeling that you dodged a bullet.

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby Arbinshire » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:49 pm

You know... Did you rely upon the verbal offer to your detriment? Just sayin'

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NimChimpsky

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby NimChimpsky » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:55 pm

Count me as a vote for going public. A lot of people saying it can only hurt you. How? The firm will do what exactly? This was a calamitous shameful thing they did and they deserve to get publicly upbraided.

Pro: maybe they, and other firms, are less likely to pull this shit in the future
Con: this particular firm maybe puts it together it was you that outed them, and then, what, they don't hire you there?

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CaptainJapan

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby CaptainJapan » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:05 pm

NimChimpsky wrote:Count me as a vote for going public. A lot of people saying it can only hurt you. How? The firm will do what exactly? This was a calamitous shameful thing they did and they deserve to get publicly upbraided.

Pro: maybe they, and other firms, are less likely to pull this shit in the future
Con: this particular firm maybe puts it together it was you that outed them, and then, what, they don't hire you there?


This was my reaction as well...don't hold the people who screwed you accountable? Why? They didn't ask you to give them that benefit, and probably don't expect it. What person--including people in that firm not involved in your situation--would not be sympathetic to you in the circumstances? I have no skin in the game, but 100% I'd give credit where credit is due and warn others against bidding a firm that dusted me like this.

OP sorry to hear your story. Keep grinding.

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rpupkin

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby rpupkin » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:06 pm

NimChimpsky wrote:Con: this particular firm maybe puts it together it was you that outed them, and then, what, they don't hire you there?

It's a small world, and OP is still looking for a job. Based on the OP's description, this is a midsize law firm in OP's home market. I imagine that OP is still quite interested in finding a job in that market. If OP goes to ABTL, no one in this region will want to hire him. It doesn't matter if he's 100% in the right and the firm is 100% at fault. No one wants to hire someone who will run to ABTL when things go sour.

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:41 pm

rpupkin wrote:
NimChimpsky wrote:Con: this particular firm maybe puts it together it was you that outed them, and then, what, they don't hire you there?

It's a small world, and OP is still looking for a job. Based on the OP's description, this is a midsize law firm in OP's home market. I imagine that OP is still quite interested in finding a job in that market. If OP goes to ABTL, no one in this region will want to hire him. It doesn't matter if he's 100% in the right and the firm is 100% at fault. No one wants to hire someone who will run to ABTL when things go sour.

This, plus all the people agitating for OP to go public are just rubbernecking. There is no benefit to OP and no moral duty here to "OUT THE FIRM." The firm didn't do anything illegal or, strictly construed, unethical. It did a shitty thing and now you know they're on the long list of employers full of people who do shitty things. Leave it be.

What the f.supp?

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby What the f.supp? » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:06 pm

rpupkin wrote:
NimChimpsky wrote:Con: this particular firm maybe puts it together it was you that outed them, and then, what, they don't hire you there?

It's a small world, and OP is still looking for a job. Based on the OP's description, this is a midsize law firm in OP's home market. I imagine that OP is still quite interested in finding a job in that market. If OP goes to ABTL, no one in this region will want to hire him. It doesn't matter if he's 100% in the right and the firm is 100% at fault. No one wants to hire someone who will run to ABTL when things go sour.


I think this is exactly right. I wouldn't publicize it. I would love to see OP go to ATL and see the firm catch hell for this, but then OP's name is going to pop up in every employer's Google search forever. I don't think prospective employers would want someone with that kind of notoriety attached to their name.

As good as it might feel in the short term, I can't think of one positive thing that could come to OP from going postal on this. It's not like they're going to rescind the rescinded offer.

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:09 pm

Send it to Above the law anonymously. It wont prevent the firm from figuring it out once it gets public but at least its limited to how much more the firm wants to share with others in the market. It wont inherently be attached to ops name in google.

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:12 pm

OP here.

Thanks everyone for the support, thoughts, and stories. It really does mean a lot.

For now, I don't think I'm going to out the firm. The market is on the smaller end and I know that word spreads between firms/industries like wildfire there. I haven't heard back from a majority of the firms yet so I'm going to play it cool at least until my chances of landing something in the market are done. Once the job search is over, I'll weigh the pros/cons of outing the firm simply for the sake of future applicants

It still sucks that I'm still looking after thinking I had an offer locked up, but on the positive I mailed 20 firms today like others suggested and had a CB request come through.

I guess that all I can really do is keep mailing and grinding.

Again, I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses in this thread

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rpupkin

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby rpupkin » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Send it to Above the law anonymously. It wont prevent the firm from figuring it out once it gets public but at least its limited to how much more the firm wants to share with others in the market. It wont inherently be attached to ops name in google.

The legal world is small, especially within these regional markets. Even if OP's name isn't mentioned in the article, people will in the city will talk about him. Those of you urging OP to go to ATL are basically suggesting that he sabotage his career for your amusement.

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ggocat

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby ggocat » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:23 pm

It's not like you have to make the outing decision now. There will be time for that after you graduate / secured employment. If this firm didn't want you to tell anyone what they did, they shouldn't have done it.

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pancakes3

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby pancakes3 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:32 pm

1) I don't see the point of outing the firm. This is a midsize, small market firm. If biglaw did this, maybe there's a gossip component. This just seems petty and a cheap, potentially damaging way to blow off steam.

2) The revocation probably is not because of a GPA cutoff from HR. Maybe it's economic. Maybe a more attractive candidate who was leaning towards a BL gig that the midsize had given up on ultimately chose the midsize firm? Who knows?

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JenDarby

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby JenDarby » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:09 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Send it to Above the law anonymously. It wont prevent the firm from figuring it out once it gets public but at least its limited to how much more the firm wants to share with others in the market. It wont inherently be attached to ops name in google.

The legal world is small, especially within these regional markets. Even if OP's name isn't mentioned in the article, people will in the city will talk about him. Those of you urging OP to go to ATL are basically suggesting that he sabotage his career for your amusement.

All of this is very true and the 5 minutes of satisfaction to the OP and potential of this "helping other applicants" is not worth the many downsides.

The legal world really is very small, especially once you start to specialize. Stories get around and people seemingly know everyone, it's actually a little unnerving.

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jchiles

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby jchiles » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:14 pm

If I were in your shoes and ended up with a job in the same market as this firm that would make me even less likely to out the firm here or on atl. Seems like it would make people at the new job question your judgment if it ever came back to you.

Obviously it would feel good to get some kind of justice or whatever but careers are long and no point burning bridges here.

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:42 pm

Tell career services so they can warn future students at your school.

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moonman157

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby moonman157 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:54 pm

I feel like "warning other students" is also less applicable in a smaller market. At the end of the day, students from the local T1s and TTs are usually pretty lucky to get offers at midsize and larger firms, and the midsize firms have no problems filling their classes with top students from the local schools. While this may cause them to lose a few top candidates to other firms, it's still much more of a buyer's market than say NYC, where it's much more common for T14 students to have multiple offers. I definitely wouldn't out the firm, and I wish you the best of luck OP. It'll work out.

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby mnm122 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:08 am

Slightly related: At what point IS it safe to consider everything finalized? When you sign the offer letter & return it to the firm? What kind of confirmation do firms usually give?

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby runinthefront » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:19 am

mnm122 wrote:Slightly related: At what point IS it safe to consider everything finalized? When you sign the offer letter & return it to the firm? What kind of confirmation do firms usually give?

You're an at-will employee. Signing the offer letter is merely a formality.
Last edited by runinthefront on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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star fox

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby star fox » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:36 am

mnm122 wrote:Slightly related: At what point IS it safe to consider everything finalized? When you sign the offer letter & return it to the firm? What kind of confirmation do firms usually give?

There is no confirmation. You'll be thanked for accepting and asked to fill out some forms. Then you may hear again in April/May when they get ready for the summer program with additional items/actions to be taken. You could technically have the offer revoked at any time but there's not much good in worrying about it constantly.

Sorry to hear OP. Best of luck to you.

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby TEM » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:33 pm

Arbinshire wrote:You know... Did you rely upon the verbal offer to your detriment? Just sayin'

This.

runinthefront

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby runinthefront » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:42 pm

TEM wrote:
Arbinshire wrote:You know... Did you rely upon the verbal offer to your detriment? Just sayin'

This.


It would also be unreasonable to rely on a verbal offer of biglaw employment to your detriment, at least a judge would say so. Especially since '09.
Last edited by runinthefront on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Genius

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby Genius » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:48 pm

The shitty thing is he accepted on the spot so he cant even say he turned down other offers and interviews for that job. Maybe he could? Maybe he can say he accepeted and declined/canceled other firms. It is just a case of douchebag employer letting down an enthusiastic kid.

This is all so crazy because the firm already had his transcript and GPA. This is bs and im so sorry op. I wish someone here can give you tangible help.

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby lurklaw » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:40 pm

No one would hold it against OP for outing this POS firm. Give me af break, you geeks. You really think the firm would double down and retaliate? That's the worst thing it could do.

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Re: Offer revoked

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:47 pm

lurklaw wrote:No one would hold it against OP for outing this POS firm. Give me af break, you geeks. You really think the firm would double down and retaliate? That's the worst thing it could do.


half of me agrees with you; the other half says its a small world and its not worth the risk.



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