V&E Firm Health?

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V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:32 pm

I am strongly considering accepting a V&E Houston offer. The alternative would be a V10 in NYC, but I frankly have no interest in practicing in NY, so I would be looking to jump ship to a South(eastern) market pretty much from Day 1. My concern lies in the fact that V&E's revenues dropped from 2014 to 2015, and given their heavy O&G presence, they have to be hurting these days. Plus, I do not want to be no offered at the end of the summer for "fit" or whatever. I have no problems with O&G work, so if it was a given that I would get an offer from V&E I would totally take it. Any thoughts?

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am strongly considering accepting a V&E Houston offer. The alternative would be a V10 in NYC, but I frankly have no interest in practicing in NY, so I would be looking to jump ship to a South(eastern) market pretty much from Day 1. My concern lies in the fact that V&E's revenues dropped from 2014 to 2015, and given their heavy O&G presence, they have to be hurting these days. Plus, I do not want to be no offered at the end of the summer for "fit" or whatever. I have no problems with O&G work, so if it was a given that I would get an offer from V&E I would totally take it. Any thoughts?


V&E is fine, especially the Houston office, which remains the true home and flagship. Their revenue dropped from what I believe was an all time high to slightly below that in 2015 in the midst of the larges O&G pull back in 20+ years. I work in Houston at a peer firm (BB, LW, K&E). VE is across from us all the time.

Market wise, ~$45-50 a barrel oil is vastly different than ~$30 a barrel oil, and a lot of companies are able to access the market now, and others still need to restructure/sell to stay afloat. We have been busy since May, and August was just brutal in our office.

If you want to be in Houston, there is 0 reason not to take a VE offer.

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby favabeansoup » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am strongly considering accepting a V&E Houston offer. The alternative would be a V10 in NYC, but I frankly have no interest in practicing in NY, so I would be looking to jump ship to a South(eastern) market pretty much from Day 1. My concern lies in the fact that V&E's revenues dropped from 2014 to 2015, and given their heavy O&G presence, they have to be hurting these days. Plus, I do not want to be no offered at the end of the summer for "fit" or whatever. I have no problems with O&G work, so if it was a given that I would get an offer from V&E I would totally take it. Any thoughts?


V&E firm health is absolutely fine. If V&E were actually in trouble it would signal a lot worse things for our economy as a whole. Take V&E can't beat it in TExas.

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am strongly considering accepting a V&E Houston offer. The alternative would be a V10 in NYC, but I frankly have no interest in practicing in NY, so I would be looking to jump ship to a South(eastern) market pretty much from Day 1. My concern lies in the fact that V&E's revenues dropped from 2014 to 2015, and given their heavy O&G presence, they have to be hurting these days. Plus, I do not want to be no offered at the end of the summer for "fit" or whatever. I have no problems with O&G work, so if it was a given that I would get an offer from V&E I would totally take it. Any thoughts?

I agree with what the anon above said regarding firm health (VE is obviously fine), but getting an offer is not a slam dunk given their historical offer rate. Over the past 3 years, VE Houston has no offered 13 summers (mid 80s percentage offer rate), which I'm sure people will explain away as SAs fucking up, but their peer firms have been significantly better on that front: KE 100%, Latham 100%, BB 96%.

I have also heard stories of incoming associates being asked to switch to bankruptcy from their preferred practice groups due to the state of the energy market right now.

Not saying you shouldn't take the VE offer, but I disagree that there's "zero reason" not to take the offer.

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am strongly considering accepting a V&E Houston offer. The alternative would be a V10 in NYC, but I frankly have no interest in practicing in NY, so I would be looking to jump ship to a South(eastern) market pretty much from Day 1. My concern lies in the fact that V&E's revenues dropped from 2014 to 2015, and given their heavy O&G presence, they have to be hurting these days. Plus, I do not want to be no offered at the end of the summer for "fit" or whatever. I have no problems with O&G work, so if it was a given that I would get an offer from V&E I would totally take it. Any thoughts?

I agree with what the anon above said regarding firm health (VE is obviously fine), but getting an offer is not a slam dunk given their historical offer rate. Over the past 3 years, VE Houston has no offered 13 summers (mid 80s percentage offer rate), which I'm sure people will explain away as SAs fucking up, but their peer firms have been significantly better on that front: KE 100%, Latham 100%, BB 96%.

I have also heard stories of incoming associates being asked to switch to bankruptcy from their preferred practice groups due to the state of the energy market right now.

Not saying you shouldn't take the VE offer, but I disagree that there's "zero reason" not to take the offer.


First responder from above. TBF, weren't most of the no -offers VE gave out summer of 2015 right when oil was in the midst of falling off a cliff? Not excusing them, but iirc there were 8-9 that summer, which makes sense as an outlier given the market. I think this year their entire class got offered (or there were only 1-2 no-offers, I have not heard of a big batch though).

As far as practice group placement, any and all firms will do that based on needs, so I cannot see how it is something to worry about specifically.

My point still stands, if OP wants to be in Houston, no reason not to take a VE offer. If they would rather be elsewhere, take the NYC offer and roll the dice in 2-3 years with lateraling. My feeling is start where you want to be, but ymmv.

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:02 pm

Not to hijack, but does anyone know what offer rates were at other big TX firms this past summer?

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not to hijack, but does anyone know what offer rates were at other big TX firms this past summer?


As I understand I think they were all 90-100%. I have not heard of any no-offers in groups of more than 1 or 2.

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:29 pm

V&E no offered at least one person this summer that was 1000% not due to "fit." Non-main office.

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:05 pm

firm health is fine it's just that the firm routinely no offers a handful of its summers as a matter of course. nothing insane 10%+ no offered or whatever, but even if it's a 5% chance and with your professional career/financial future on the line, why take that chance? especially when you have firms with 100% offer rates as alternatives? you can always lateral down from v10 to VE.

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am strongly considering accepting a V&E Houston offer. The alternative would be a V10 in NYC, but I frankly have no interest in practicing in NY, so I would be looking to jump ship to a South(eastern) market pretty much from Day 1. My concern lies in the fact that V&E's revenues dropped from 2014 to 2015, and given their heavy O&G presence, they have to be hurting these days. Plus, I do not want to be no offered at the end of the summer for "fit" or whatever. I have no problems with O&G work, so if it was a given that I would get an offer from V&E I would totally take it. Any thoughts?

I agree with what the anon above said regarding firm health (VE is obviously fine), but getting an offer is not a slam dunk given their historical offer rate. Over the past 3 years, VE Houston has no offered 13 summers (mid 80s percentage offer rate), which I'm sure people will explain away as SAs fucking up, but their peer firms have been significantly better on that front: KE 100%, Latham 100%, BB 96%.

I have also heard stories of incoming associates being asked to switch to bankruptcy from their preferred practice groups due to the state of the energy market right now.

Not saying you shouldn't take the VE offer, but I disagree that there's "zero reason" not to take the offer.


First responder from above. TBF, weren't most of the no -offers VE gave out summer of 2015 right when oil was in the midst of falling off a cliff? Not excusing them, but iirc there were 8-9 that summer, which makes sense as an outlier given the market. I think this year their entire class got offered (or there were only 1-2 no-offers, I have not heard of a big batch though).

As far as practice group placement, any and all firms will do that based on needs, so I cannot see how it is something to worry about specifically.

My point still stands, if OP wants to be in Houston, no reason not to take a VE offer. If they would rather be elsewhere, take the NYC offer and roll the dice in 2-3 years with lateraling. My feeling is start where you want to be, but ymmv.

5 in 2015, 2 in 2014, and 6 in 2013. That's a pattern of no offering (consistent 85-88% offer rate), and it can't be easily explained away as 1 rare bad apple imo, given the quality of candidates they attract and their peers' 100% (or high 90s) offer rates.

Fwiw, BB/KE/LW all had to weather the same oil falling off a cliff issue last summer, and they collectively no offered just 2.

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby ms9 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:56 pm

I know VE very well, and they are fine. I think you are over thinking it.

My best guess is that their revenues went down because they lost a group of lawyers from Dallas to Gibson during that period, including one of the top M&A guys in the world. But that happens and the firm is very strong and a great one to work for.

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:35 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:I know VE very well, and they are fine. I think you are over thinking it.

My best guess is that their revenues went down because they lost a group of lawyers from Dallas to Gibson during that period, including one of the top M&A guys in the world. But that happens and the firm is very strong and a great one to work for.


How would you compare them to LW for Houston transactional work?

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:I know VE very well, and they are fine. I think you are over thinking it.

My best guess is that their revenues went down because they lost a group of lawyers from Dallas to Gibson during that period, including one of the top M&A guys in the world. But that happens and the firm is very strong and a great one to work for.


How would you compare them to LW for Houston transactional work?


LW >>>>

V&E is great.

But Latham.... damn. :P

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:23 pm

Does any of this change meaningfully for the Dallas office?

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does any of this change meaningfully for the Dallas office?

Dallas office has consistently had a 100% offer rate, so you don't have to worry about the handful of no offers they do in Houston each year.

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does any of this change meaningfully for the Dallas office?

Dallas office has consistently had a 100% offer rate, so you don't have to worry about the handful of no offers they do in Houston each year.

Awesome thanks. What about in terms of level of work, reputation, everything else that was being discussed? Still a top tier choice in Dallas, right?

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Re: V&E Firm Health?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does any of this change meaningfully for the Dallas office?

Dallas office has consistently had a 100% offer rate, so you don't have to worry about the handful of no offers they do in Houston each year.

Awesome thanks. What about in terms of level of work, reputation, everything else that was being discussed? Still a top tier choice in Dallas, right?

Level of work isn't quite on the level of the Houston office, but I'd still put it up there as a top corporate player in Dallas. VE name/reputation will always be big in TX if you're looking to stay there long term. I'd consider it a top tier choice in Dallas along with GDC with the caveat that there are some difficult personalities to work with there and the culture is pretty different from the Houston office culture.



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