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Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
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- sublime
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
So they aren't a NALP, firm, right? Although I actually don't know what kind of recourse there would be even if there was.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Accept and then renege if you get another job.
- sublime
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Yea, that's probably what I would do.Anonymous User wrote:Accept and then renege if you get another job.
I think the ethics of this changes drastically when they refuse to give you even 3 BD to decide.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Wouldnt leaving after a month considered burning bridges and unethical? Also how do you do this? It just seems like such an awkward conversation.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Not a NALP firm.sublime wrote:So they aren't a NALP, firm, right? Although I actually don't know what kind of recourse there would be even if there was.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Anonymous User wrote:Accept and then renege if you get another job.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Burning bridges, maybe. Unethical, no. They'd lay you off after a month. This is their problem if they hire this way. You hire people like they're baristas and they'll treat the job like it's a barista job.Anonymous User wrote:Wouldnt leaving after a month considered burning bridges and unethical? Also how do you do this? It just seems like such an awkward conversation.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
TBH, this firm seems really crappy. 3 days to decide? Is this normal? Plus, 74k and 2000+ billable hours is not all that enticing.
Two choices:
1. Accept and then renege if you get a better offer. Downside is this sucks and could have repercussions for your reputation. Plus side is that you don't end up jobless in case your other possibilities fall through. In all fairness, they haven't left you with a lot of options. Reneging here seems less problematic because of the way they put their offer to you.
2. Tell the firm to you're really interested, but you simply can't make a decision that fast. Ask for an extension. If they really deny you, then it doesn't seem like the firm is really somewhere you want to work anyways.
If it were me, I'd go with choice #2. It just seems like the better thing to do. However, getting a job can be tough, and you don't want to come up empty handed.
I guess I have a few follow up questions for you:
What's the likelihood of coming into contact with this firm again if you renege? Do the other firms practice in the same areas?
Are you already outperforming yourself by getting an offer from a not-so-great school/lousy grades?
Two choices:
1. Accept and then renege if you get a better offer. Downside is this sucks and could have repercussions for your reputation. Plus side is that you don't end up jobless in case your other possibilities fall through. In all fairness, they haven't left you with a lot of options. Reneging here seems less problematic because of the way they put their offer to you.
2. Tell the firm to you're really interested, but you simply can't make a decision that fast. Ask for an extension. If they really deny you, then it doesn't seem like the firm is really somewhere you want to work anyways.
If it were me, I'd go with choice #2. It just seems like the better thing to do. However, getting a job can be tough, and you don't want to come up empty handed.
I guess I have a few follow up questions for you:
What's the likelihood of coming into contact with this firm again if you renege? Do the other firms practice in the same areas?
Are you already outperforming yourself by getting an offer from a not-so-great school/lousy grades?
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Only $74K for $2000 billable? Adjusted for a normal human being work schedule that's like $37K/yr. Avoid this firm IMO
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
This is a non NALP firm that gets paid by insurance companies. Im not sure if I am outperforming myself. I am still i the run at 1 large firm and 1 midsize firm with much better pay and hours, as well as 1 small firm, but no cigar yet. Im a median at Tier 1 school with strong softs.eyeofvigilence wrote:TBH, this firm seems really crappy. 3 days to decide? Is this normal? Plus, 74k and 2000+ billable hours is not all that enticing.
Two choices:
1. Accept and then renege if you get a better offer. Downside is this sucks and could have repercussions for your reputation. Plus side is that you don't end up jobless in case your other possibilities fall through. In all fairness, they haven't left you with a lot of options. Reneging here seems less problematic because of the way they put their offer to you.
2. Tell the firm to you're really interested, but you simply can't make a decision that fast. Ask for an extension. If they really deny you, then it doesn't seem like the firm is really somewhere you want to work anyways.
If it were me, I'd go with choice #2. It just seems like the better thing to do. However, getting a job can be tough, and you don't want to come up empty handed.
I guess I have a few follow up questions for you:
What's the likelihood of coming into contact with this firm again if you renege? Do the other firms practice in the same areas?
Are you already outperforming yourself by getting an offer from a not-so-great school/lousy grades?
I doubt I will come into contact with this firm again as they do defense work. Does it matter though? Will they remember me years from now?
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
I think you can do better. Screw this firm. It sounds like you'd be miserable there anyway.Anonymous User wrote:This is a non NALP firm that gets paid by insurance companies. Im not sure if I am outperforming myself. I am still i the run at 1 large firm and 1 midsize firm with much better pay and hours, as well as 1 small firm, but no cigar yet. Im a median at Tier 1 school with strong softs.eyeofvigilence wrote:TBH, this firm seems really crappy. 3 days to decide? Is this normal? Plus, 74k and 2000+ billable hours is not all that enticing.
Two choices:
1. Accept and then renege if you get a better offer. Downside is this sucks and could have repercussions for your reputation. Plus side is that you don't end up jobless in case your other possibilities fall through. In all fairness, they haven't left you with a lot of options. Reneging here seems less problematic because of the way they put their offer to you.
2. Tell the firm to you're really interested, but you simply can't make a decision that fast. Ask for an extension. If they really deny you, then it doesn't seem like the firm is really somewhere you want to work anyways.
If it were me, I'd go with choice #2. It just seems like the better thing to do. However, getting a job can be tough, and you don't want to come up empty handed.
I guess I have a few follow up questions for you:
What's the likelihood of coming into contact with this firm again if you renege? Do the other firms practice in the same areas?
Are you already outperforming yourself by getting an offer from a not-so-great school/lousy grades?
I doubt I will come into contact with this firm again as they do defense work. Does it matter though? Will they remember me years from now?
Basically any other firm sounds better than this one. Tell them no.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Whatever you do, you definitely don't cancel an interview at a good place, gotten for you by connections. That's absolutely not an option. The fact that they're happy to have you do this so you can work at their shitty layoff factory tells you what kind of respect you should have for these people: zero.
Don't fuck yourself over in order to avoid an "awkward conversation" or in order to please some asshole partner who needs you to start ASAP because they stupidly fired too many people.
Be a lawyer. Think strategically. Your number one WORST option is to start at this shithole, stop your job search prematurely, and "suck it up." Don't do that. Whether or not you start here for a short-term money infusion (and I would argue that you should), you definitely should not start here if you're going to let them giving you a job be some kind of ethical yoke that keeps you from getting a real, decent, legitimate job.
tl;dr: If you're going to be the kind of person who will let these people fuck you for a year+ because you think leaving is "unethical" or will be "awkward" then you need to not start at this job, because it's not worth it.
Don't fuck yourself over in order to avoid an "awkward conversation" or in order to please some asshole partner who needs you to start ASAP because they stupidly fired too many people.
Be a lawyer. Think strategically. Your number one WORST option is to start at this shithole, stop your job search prematurely, and "suck it up." Don't do that. Whether or not you start here for a short-term money infusion (and I would argue that you should), you definitely should not start here if you're going to let them giving you a job be some kind of ethical yoke that keeps you from getting a real, decent, legitimate job.
tl;dr: If you're going to be the kind of person who will let these people fuck you for a year+ because you think leaving is "unethical" or will be "awkward" then you need to not start at this job, because it's not worth it.
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- elendinel
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
If I were you:
I'd be trying extremely hard to find another one in the meantime, because $74k for 2000/year in billables is absolutely ridiculous. It generally sounds like the firm doesn't have its ducks in a row and is trying to fill in gaps ASAP until they can figure out a solution, which is a terrible position to put yourself in. As for what to say, just tell them the truth (something came up, you can no longer accept the offer, you appreciate the opportunity, etc.). Keep it professional.
unless you expect to deal with people in this firm again/you're going into a niche field. Never renege in a niche field.Anonymous User wrote:Accept and then renege if you get another job.
I'd be trying extremely hard to find another one in the meantime, because $74k for 2000/year in billables is absolutely ridiculous. It generally sounds like the firm doesn't have its ducks in a row and is trying to fill in gaps ASAP until they can figure out a solution, which is a terrible position to put yourself in. As for what to say, just tell them the truth (something came up, you can no longer accept the offer, you appreciate the opportunity, etc.). Keep it professional.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
You should do a poll, OP:
Accept & Renege or Tell them no
Accept & Renege or Tell them no
- A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Exactly this. People always worry it's unethical to leave a job almost right away. It's not. It might piss off people at the job you leave, but nothing in the ethics rules requires you staying at a crappy job if you get a better one.Anonymous User wrote:Burning bridges, maybe. Unethical, no. They'd lay you off after a month. This is their problem if they hire this way. You hire people like they're baristas and they'll treat the job like it's a barista job.Anonymous User wrote:Wouldnt leaving after a month considered burning bridges and unethical? Also how do you do this? It just seems like such an awkward conversation.
Sure, it's probably going to be an awkward conversation. Better an awkward conversation than being stuck in a crappy job if you have a better option (and taking the crappy job and leaving if something better comes along is also better than turning down the crappy job and being unemployed for longer).
- Toni V
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Perhaps I am wrong about this, but I believe on the bar application there was this question: “have you ever reneged?” I am not positive where I saw this question asked, but I did see it.Chill_Out wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Accept and then renege if you get another job.
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- A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Pretty sure not on the bar application. Don't fearmonger.Toni V wrote:Perhaps I am wrong about this, but I believe on the bar application there was this question: “have you ever reneged?” I am not positive where I saw this question asked, but I did see it.Chill_Out wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Accept and then renege if you get another job.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
You can literally look on the bar application for your state and see if this question is asked.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
OP here. so the dude on the phone sounded like if I wasn't going to accept the offer right away he was going to give it to someone else. I sort of can't believe they aren't flexible with giving me even 3 business days to decide. I thought the normal was 2 weeks. Well I will wait until end of business day on Monday to figure out my next plan of action.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Take the job, interview elsewhere, and if you leave tell them "I give firms 3 days to decide if I want to leave or not."
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
2k billable for 74k.... what the hell
- kalvano
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Take it and keep looking / interviewing. They sound terrible and you should keep at it as if you don't have a job, but this at least gives you a safety net. A safety net full of vileness and horror, but a net nonetheless.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
So leaving after a month or less is okay right? It wont hurt my career?
As someone above mentioned, ppl get canned after a month due to layoff as well. So I guess it works both ways.
As someone above mentioned, ppl get canned after a month due to layoff as well. So I guess it works both ways.
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Re: Firm made an offer but wants an answer right away
Yes. 100% yes.Anonymous User wrote:So leaving after a month or less is okay right?
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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