NY vs CA for copyright law Forum
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- trmckenz
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NY vs CA for copyright law
Just wanted to get TLS's perspective on opportunities in copyright law, and how those opportunities might be different in New York vs. California. Big picture, how does copyright work in CA (LA, SV/SF) differ from that in NY (NYC)? Is there a lot of overlap?
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
I'm not in the space so take my advice as worthless but here's my take:
I would think that they're both relatively similar in terms of digital media (film, music) since the internet pretty much allows a production company in LA to obtain legal advice from a law firm in NYC relatively easily. Therefore, I'm sure there's lots of overlap. Take a look at Viacom/MTV/etc. or the various record labels headquartered in both cities as examples.
The ONLY difference in terms of copyright I could think of would be for Broadway production, which would be exclusively in NYC. I've seen a few firms that specialize in that type of IP work. How one breaks into that field I have no idea because it seems like a tight-knit group and extremely niche.
I would think that they're both relatively similar in terms of digital media (film, music) since the internet pretty much allows a production company in LA to obtain legal advice from a law firm in NYC relatively easily. Therefore, I'm sure there's lots of overlap. Take a look at Viacom/MTV/etc. or the various record labels headquartered in both cities as examples.
The ONLY difference in terms of copyright I could think of would be for Broadway production, which would be exclusively in NYC. I've seen a few firms that specialize in that type of IP work. How one breaks into that field I have no idea because it seems like a tight-knit group and extremely niche.
- trmckenz
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
Thanks for the input. I figured NYC would have mostly everything that LA would have (maybe less talent work than LA, but that's not really IP anyway) and then some. Your Broadway example is good, and I think of book publishing to be rather NYC-centric too.
How about in the digital space? Is the hub for that obviously Silicon Valley? Really what I'm trying to figure out is where to start for copyright law... I have a tech background and patent law experience, but want to transition to copyrights post-law school because of my passion for music. I've narrowed it down to Century City, Silicon Valley, and MFH, but wanted some more information as to the pros and cons of starting in NY vs CA.
How about in the digital space? Is the hub for that obviously Silicon Valley? Really what I'm trying to figure out is where to start for copyright law... I have a tech background and patent law experience, but want to transition to copyrights post-law school because of my passion for music. I've narrowed it down to Century City, Silicon Valley, and MFH, but wanted some more information as to the pros and cons of starting in NY vs CA.
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
I think you need to narrow down what you mean by "copyright law". Litigation? Licensing? Other transactional that's related to the music industry? There are definitely options in either state. (e.g. Sony and Spotify are in NY, Universal and Pandora are in CA)
One thing to consider is that if you're not from CA, those markets can be very hard to break into because firms hesitate to hire someone without ties to the area. NY is a little friendlier in that regard. Best option (as several prominent entertainment lawyers told me when I was exploring this career path) is to go to the best school you can and work at the best firm you can. Exit options to an industry heavy hitter will be much better.
One thing to consider is that if you're not from CA, those markets can be very hard to break into because firms hesitate to hire someone without ties to the area. NY is a little friendlier in that regard. Best option (as several prominent entertainment lawyers told me when I was exploring this career path) is to go to the best school you can and work at the best firm you can. Exit options to an industry heavy hitter will be much better.
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
You should also consider DC for copyright, there's going to be a ton happening with copyright in the next 5 years in congress.trmckenz wrote:Just wanted to get TLS's perspective on opportunities in copyright law, and how those opportunities might be different in New York vs. California. Big picture, how does copyright work in CA (LA, SV/SF) differ from that in NY (NYC)? Is there a lot of overlap?
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
What CA firms have strong copyright practice? I couldnt find any
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
What do you mean by Copyright? Like Entertainment? OMM,Greenberg Traurig, Manat Phelps, Mitchell Silberberg, Loeb & Loeb come to mind. For copyright litigation (this isn't DC)? Jenner DC, Levine Sullivan Koch, Arnold & Porter DC, again Mitchell Silberberg, Finnegan, Arent Fox (particularly NY for Rate Court litigation).Genius wrote:What CA firms have strong copyright practice? I couldnt find any
The most interesting copyright litigation is the BMI/ASCAP Rate Court cases and Copyright Royalty Board distribution/rate making, and theres about 5 firms (included in the list above) that do nearly all of that.
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
The biggest problem is that there not much on the entry level outside of the biggest firms. Some of the best firms that do "copyright" only hire at the midlevel.Anonymous User wrote:I think you need to narrow down what you mean by "copyright law". Litigation? Licensing? Other transactional that's related to the music industry? There are definitely options in either state. (e.g. Sony and Spotify are in NY, Universal and Pandora are in CA)
One thing to consider is that if you're not from CA, those markets can be very hard to break into because firms hesitate to hire someone without ties to the area. NY is a little friendlier in that regard. Best option (as several prominent entertainment lawyers told me when I was exploring this career path) is to go to the best school you can and work at the best firm you can. Exit options to an industry heavy hitter will be much better.
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
Im looking to apply to copyright infringement / licensing firms in Los AngelesFSK wrote:What do you mean by Copyright? Like Entertainment? OMM,Greenberg Traurig, Manat Phelps, Mitchell Silberberg, Loeb & Loeb come to mind. For copyright litigation (this isn't DC)? Jenner DC, Levine Sullivan Koch, Arnold & Porter DC, again Mitchell Silberberg, Finnegan, Arent Fox (particularly NY for Rate Court litigation).Genius wrote:What CA firms have strong copyright practice? I couldnt find any
The most interesting copyright litigation is the BMI/ASCAP Rate Court cases and Copyright Royalty Board distribution/rate making, and theres about 5 firms (included in the list above) that do nearly all of that.
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
Do some research on chambers & partnersGenius wrote:Im looking to apply to copyright infringement / licensing firms in Los AngelesFSK wrote:What do you mean by Copyright? Like Entertainment? OMM,Greenberg Traurig, Manat Phelps, Mitchell Silberberg, Loeb & Loeb come to mind. For copyright litigation (this isn't DC)? Jenner DC, Levine Sullivan Koch, Arnold & Porter DC, again Mitchell Silberberg, Finnegan, Arent Fox (particularly NY for Rate Court litigation).Genius wrote:What CA firms have strong copyright practice? I couldnt find any
The most interesting copyright litigation is the BMI/ASCAP Rate Court cases and Copyright Royalty Board distribution/rate making, and theres about 5 firms (included in the list above) that do nearly all of that.
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- trmckenz
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
Thanks everyone. Very helpful info.
I like to think I'm a shoe in at a V30 (I work as a patent agent there now), but I will reach as high as I can during law school. Assuming I come back to my current firm for a 1L SA, I can split offices with the IP hub (Dallas) and then one of Palo Alto, NYC, and DC (no LA office). Our soft IP is mostly handled out of our NYC office (think luxury brand management type of trademark work). Our DC office is a heavy hitter, and might make the most sense for copyright litigation... Our Palo Alto office ironically doesn't have an IP practice, but the firm wants to build it out over the next few years, so there might be the most opportunity to become the firm's go-to guy there (tons of cross selling within the firm). Lots of options...
My interests definitely skew toward transactional work, as I like being involved in deal negotiations. I could see myself lateraling to a more copyright-centric practice after putting at least a couple of years in at my current firm, which seems to be the most realistic path. I could also see myself transitioning into an entertainment/media company later on down the road, but I'd only want to make that move at higher levels.
The concern I have is which state bar to take. I've learned you cannot waive into CA... a lot of the in-house positions I've searched for in music specifically seem to like the CA bar, but some say NY is acceptable too. I'd like to maximize my options at this point and would appreciate thoughts on which state bar might help me do that. Thanks again for the thoughts.
I like to think I'm a shoe in at a V30 (I work as a patent agent there now), but I will reach as high as I can during law school. Assuming I come back to my current firm for a 1L SA, I can split offices with the IP hub (Dallas) and then one of Palo Alto, NYC, and DC (no LA office). Our soft IP is mostly handled out of our NYC office (think luxury brand management type of trademark work). Our DC office is a heavy hitter, and might make the most sense for copyright litigation... Our Palo Alto office ironically doesn't have an IP practice, but the firm wants to build it out over the next few years, so there might be the most opportunity to become the firm's go-to guy there (tons of cross selling within the firm). Lots of options...
My interests definitely skew toward transactional work, as I like being involved in deal negotiations. I could see myself lateraling to a more copyright-centric practice after putting at least a couple of years in at my current firm, which seems to be the most realistic path. I could also see myself transitioning into an entertainment/media company later on down the road, but I'd only want to make that move at higher levels.
The concern I have is which state bar to take. I've learned you cannot waive into CA... a lot of the in-house positions I've searched for in music specifically seem to like the CA bar, but some say NY is acceptable too. I'd like to maximize my options at this point and would appreciate thoughts on which state bar might help me do that. Thanks again for the thoughts.
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
DC would probably be more lobbying-centric than transactional/lit IMO.FSK wrote:You should also consider DC for copyright, there's going to be a ton happening with copyright in the next 5 years in congress.trmckenz wrote:Just wanted to get TLS's perspective on opportunities in copyright law, and how those opportunities might be different in New York vs. California. Big picture, how does copyright work in CA (LA, SV/SF) differ from that in NY (NYC)? Is there a lot of overlap?
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
Regardless of your current situation, this is a bad and potentially harmful mindset to have, even if you do have Patent eligibility on your side.trmckenz wrote:Thanks everyone. Very helpful info.
I like to think I'm a shoe in at a V30
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
Yeah, I'm not really sure patent-bar eligibility is going to help with a career in copyright, unlike the other soft-IP and IP lit practices. Copyright lawyers are usually Constitutional law/First Amendment scholars and experts. Patent-bar admission won't hurt but I don't see it helping either.Anonymous User wrote:Regardless of your current situation, this is a bad and potentially harmful mindset to have, even if you do have Patent eligibility on your side.trmckenz wrote:Thanks everyone. Very helpful info.
I like to think I'm a shoe in at a V30
Don't count your chickens before the eggs are even fertilized.
- trmckenz
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
Understood, and I appreciate the reminder to not put the cart before the horse. I am aware nothing is certain and will be dependent on my ability to succeed in law school... I'm just thinking the patent eligibility thing would be helpful in securing the first firm job as an IP Associate. From there I can navigate my way into a copyright practice. I am asking for help to pick the right coast for me... Is the consensus that it doesn't really matter?1styearlateral wrote:Yeah, I'm not really sure patent-bar eligibility is going to help with a career in copyright, unlike the other soft-IP and IP lit practices. Copyright lawyers are usually Constitutional law/First Amendment scholars and experts. Patent-bar admission won't hurt but I don't see it helping either.Anonymous User wrote:Regardless of your current situation, this is a bad and potentially harmful mindset to have, even if you do have Patent eligibility on your side.trmckenz wrote:Thanks everyone. Very helpful info.
I like to think I'm a shoe in at a V30
Don't count your chickens before the eggs are even fertilized.
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
IP lit is very hard to break into. Your best bet is to go to a good school, get good grades, and then summer at the best firm you can in their IP lit dept. You have the patent bar under your belt so you're already good to go and will have a leg up on other candidates looking to move into that space (IIRC, some firms even have IP-specific summer programs, but be careful not to get stuck doing patent pros).trmckenz wrote:Understood, and I appreciate the reminder to not put the cart before the horse. I am aware nothing is certain and will be dependent on my ability to succeed in law school... I'm just thinking the patent eligibility thing would be helpful in securing the first firm job as an IP Associate. From there I can navigate my way into a copyright practice. I just want to pick the right coast for me. Is the consensus that it doesn't really matter?
As far as LA/NYC, IMO it doesn't matter.
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
Patent bar/patent agent experience is pretty useless for a career in pure "copyright." If you want to do entertainment, get an SA at a firm w/ a big entertainment group in an office that has that group and will take summers (e.g., OMM LA, GT LA, Proskauer NY). If you want to do lit, the world is very narrow, but a good start is firms w/Copyright Royalty Board, Rate Court cases, and firms with big First Amendment/Advertising/Trademark groups. If you want to do policy, the best start is probably on the hill for Senate or House Judiciary (particularly with members w/IP firepower. Think Goodlatte, Hatch, Grassley, Leahy, Conyers, Nadler). you can get into that through general lit, but many of those people have very prestigious or started as SAs/LCs and ground their way up the ladder.
Also consider the Ringer Fellowship.
With the way your talking, its pretty clear you don't actually know what copyright legal work is. Do some informational interviewing too.
Also consider the Ringer Fellowship.
With the way your talking, its pretty clear you don't actually know what copyright legal work is. Do some informational interviewing too.
Last edited by FSK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- trmckenz
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
Got it, thanks again!
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Re: NY vs CA for copyright law
There are very few pure copyright roles. Firms that do advertising and music in New York (Davis & Gilbert, Frankfurt Kurnit, MoFo) are good places to get copyright work, even if you're not purely a copyright lawyer.
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