How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals? Forum

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
gander14

New
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:57 am

How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by gander14 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:29 am

I probably just need to accept that I'm not going to like being a lawyer, since I don't enjoy litigation or deal work, but I'm wondering if there are many lawyers out there who do neither?

Anonymous User
Posts: 428105
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:47 am

I personally think lawyers worth a salt should have solid fundamental lawyering skills in either lit or trans. I worked with older lawyers who did neither. They did client management, something that a high school grad could do. Their day to day included emailing clients who to pay how much for the crap service they received from attorneys within their network. They were not employable outside of what they do. It was sad really.

bdubs

Gold
Posts: 3727
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by bdubs » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:12 am

What do you dislike about them? Certain tax and regulatory work are not really deals or litigation, but they probably involve a lot of the same types of tasks.

Danger Zone

Platinum
Posts: 8258
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:36 am

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by Danger Zone » Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:38 am

Trusts and estates?
Last edited by Danger Zone on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
zot1

Gold
Posts: 4476
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:53 am

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by zot1 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:25 am

You can be an attorney in an advisory position. A lot of government attorneys do this--myself included. Clients come and ask, hey this is happening what can I do legally, and I tell them.

Big caveat: although I'm sure some attorneys are advisors 100%, I do have some lit and trans obligations as well.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


RaceJudicata

Gold
Posts: 1867
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:51 pm

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by RaceJudicata » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:I personally think lawyers worth a salt should have solid fundamental lawyering skills in either lit or trans. I worked with older lawyers who did neither. They did client management, something that a high school grad could do. Their day to day included emailing clients who to pay how much for the crap service they received from attorneys within their network. They were not employable outside of what they do. It was sad really.
Ya this is just incorrect.

Plenty of attorneys do regulatory work and do not involve themselves in transactions or litigation. FWIW, a lot of these jobs (at least the big law ones) will be in DC.

User avatar
zot1

Gold
Posts: 4476
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:53 am

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by zot1 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:50 am

RaceJudicata wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I personally think lawyers worth a salt should have solid fundamental lawyering skills in either lit or trans. I worked with older lawyers who did neither. They did client management, something that a high school grad could do. Their day to day included emailing clients who to pay how much for the crap service they received from attorneys within their network. They were not employable outside of what they do. It was sad really.
Ya this is just incorrect.

Plenty of attorneys do regulatory work and do not involve themselves in transactions or litigation. FWIW, a lot of these jobs (at least the big law ones) will be in DC.
There's absolutely no shame in not doing lit or deals. In my opinion, it's a lot less stressful, but you're still providing important legal services. Heck, every time I advise a client I'm avoiding what could have been sure litigation. That's quite a bit of money I'm saving them.

User avatar
transferror

Silver
Posts: 816
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:42 pm

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by transferror » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:25 am

Check out estate planning

dixiecupdrinking

Gold
Posts: 3436
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by dixiecupdrinking » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

It would help to know what you don't like about litigation or deal work because, although there are other practice areas, they may have those same aspects in common.

If you just don't like being adverse to another side, then as others have said there are options like regulatory or compliance advisory work, estate/tax planning, etc.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


misterjames

Bronze
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:20 am

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by misterjames » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:41 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I personally think lawyers worth a salt should have solid fundamental lawyering skills in either lit or trans. I worked with older lawyers who did neither. They did client management, something that a high school grad could do. Their day to day included emailing clients who to pay how much for the crap service they received from attorneys within their network. They were not employable outside of what they do. It was sad really.
Ya this is just incorrect.

Plenty of attorneys do regulatory work and do not involve themselves in transactions or litigation. FWIW, a lot of these jobs (at least the big law ones) will be in DC.
the bolded is mostly true for regulatory jobs but industry-specific outliers exist, i.e. financial reg in NYC, pharma reg in NJ, environmental in Cali, oil/gas in TX, you get the idea.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428105
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:02 pm

If you want NYC biglaw but dont want to do lit or transactional I'd look into firms with good asset mgmt or investment mgmt practices.

User avatar
PeanutsNJam

Gold
Posts: 4670
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by PeanutsNJam » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:07 pm

estate planning is a good alternative, but it depends on why you don't want to do lit or deal work. Do you hate writing? Due diligence? Arguments? Time constraints? What is it about lit/corp you dislike? How much did you enjoy the estates portion of your Property class.

User avatar
grand inquisitor

Gold
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:21 am

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by grand inquisitor » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:23 pm

become a congressman or senator, or perhaps run for governor

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


User avatar
Pleasye

Platinum
Posts: 8738
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:22 pm

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by Pleasye » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:40 pm

zot1 wrote:You can be an attorney in an advisory position. A lot of government attorneys do this--myself included. Clients come and ask, hey this is happening what can I do legally, and I tell them.

Big caveat: although I'm sure some attorneys are advisors 100%, I do have some lit and trans obligations as well.
Not to derail this thread, but this sounds interesting to me. Do you mind expanding on what you do/where (essentially wondering if you have a DC job)/how you got the job? You can PM if you want.

User avatar
zot1

Gold
Posts: 4476
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:53 am

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by zot1 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:47 pm

Pleasye wrote:
zot1 wrote:You can be an attorney in an advisory position. A lot of government attorneys do this--myself included. Clients come and ask, hey this is happening what can I do legally, and I tell them.

Big caveat: although I'm sure some attorneys are advisors 100%, I do have some lit and trans obligations as well.
Not to derail this thread, but this sounds interesting to me. Do you mind expanding on what you do/where (essentially wondering if you have a DC job)/how you got the job? You can PM if you want.
I'll post some details here since it might useful to OP, but you can PM if you'd like to know more than what I post.

I work for a federal agency NOT in DC. The nature of my work is very in-house counsel like. I have worked for an in-house counsel office before and know a few people who currently do, and I can say some of what we (in the context of public vs. private) is very similar (although none of them work for Fortune 500 companies that I know of).

My role is more attuned to the definition of "counselor." Non-lawyers within the agency have to do their jobs, and in the course of doing that, they come up with tons of legal questions. So they come to me for advise on how to proceed or if they should at all.

For example, in the context of real estate, someone might come to me and say, "We leased this facility to this tenant, and the tenant has let the property go to waste. What are my options?" I would then review the real estate instruments, any laws/regs involved, form an opinion, then tell the real estate person, here's what you can do and here's what I recommend you do. Then they make the decision as to the final outcome since I'm just there to provide advice. (Unless they plan to do something illegal, in that case I totally do more than just advise).

But I also have on-the-spot questions (an answer is needed right away and I don't have much if at all time for research/brainstorming). For example, in the labor context, someone might come to me and say, "We have an employee who just punched another, can we suspend/fire him?" I would likely say, "we can consider disciplinary actions, but that's not immediate. Right now we need to remove the employee from the environment by doing x, and then we look into the discipline component."

I have to admit this is the most enjoyable part of my work. I get paid to give my opinion on things.

Note: Most federal attorneys in DC (Non-DOJ) work in public policy. However, some must have positions similar to mine or combine with policy duties. I honestly wouldn't mind that as I also write policy for my agency sometimes, and I also find that to be a lot of fun.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428105
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:35 pm

zot1 wrote:
Pleasye wrote:
zot1 wrote:You can be an attorney in an advisory position. A lot of government attorneys do this--myself included. Clients come and ask, hey this is happening what can I do legally, and I tell them.

Big caveat: although I'm sure some attorneys are advisors 100%, I do have some lit and trans obligations as well.
Not to derail this thread, but this sounds interesting to me. Do you mind expanding on what you do/where (essentially wondering if you have a DC job)/how you got the job? You can PM if you want.
I'll post some details here since it might useful to OP, but you can PM if you'd like to know more than what I post.

I work for a federal agency NOT in DC. The nature of my work is very in-house counsel like. I have worked for an in-house counsel office before and know a few people who currently do, and I can say some of what we (in the context of public vs. private) is very similar (although none of them work for Fortune 500 companies that I know of).

My role is more attuned to the definition of "counselor." Non-lawyers within the agency have to do their jobs, and in the course of doing that, they come up with tons of legal questions. So they come to me for advise on how to proceed or if they should at all.

For example, in the context of real estate, someone might come to me and say, "We leased this facility to this tenant, and the tenant has let the property go to waste. What are my options?" I would then review the real estate instruments, any laws/regs involved, form an opinion, then tell the real estate person, here's what you can do and here's what I recommend you do. Then they make the decision as to the final outcome since I'm just there to provide advice. (Unless they plan to do something illegal, in that case I totally do more than just advise).

But I also have on-the-spot questions (an answer is needed right away and I don't have much if at all time for research/brainstorming). For example, in the labor context, someone might come to me and say, "We have an employee who just punched another, can we suspend/fire him?" I would likely say, "we can consider disciplinary actions, but that's not immediate. Right now we need to remove the employee from the environment by doing x, and then we look into the discipline component."

I have to admit this is the most enjoyable part of my work. I get paid to give my opinion on things.

Note: Most federal attorneys in DC (Non-DOJ) work in public policy. However, some must have positions similar to mine or combine with policy duties. I honestly wouldn't mind that as I also write policy for my agency sometimes, and I also find that to be a lot of fun.
as someone who works in the general counsel's office of a gov agency, this does sound very similar to what i do. the only real difference, as you alluded to, is the authority of the opinion.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


User avatar
Glasseyes

Silver
Posts: 539
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:19 pm

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by Glasseyes » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:03 am

Regulatory work at a firm often does still attach to deals and litigation, but just as often (for some groups) you'd be in an advisory role, as zot described above. At my firm that amounts to a lot of client emails / informal memo type responses when a client asks "can I do this, and if so, what's the best practice". Also a lot of blog posts and client alerts, which suck for several reasons but are less boring/miserable to write than, I dunno, a brief or response motion.

User avatar
Barack O'Drama

Gold
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:21 pm

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by Barack O'Drama » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:12 am

Glasseyes wrote:Regulatory work at a firm often does still attach to deals and litigation, but just as often (for some groups) you'd be in an advisory role, as zot described above. At my firm that amounts to a lot of client emails / informal memo type responses when a client asks "can I do this, and if so, what's the best practice". Also a lot of blog posts and client alerts, which suck for several reasons but are less boring/miserable to write than, I dunno, a brief or response motion.

I don't know why, but the idea of being in an advisory role really appeals to me. Are these jobs typically more hard to get than let's say big law?
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RaceJudicata

Gold
Posts: 1867
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:51 pm

Re: How to be a lawyer who doesn't litigate or do deals?

Post by RaceJudicata » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:43 am

Barack O'Drama wrote:
Glasseyes wrote:Regulatory work at a firm often does still attach to deals and litigation, but just as often (for some groups) you'd be in an advisory role, as zot described above. At my firm that amounts to a lot of client emails / informal memo type responses when a client asks "can I do this, and if so, what's the best practice". Also a lot of blog posts and client alerts, which suck for several reasons but are less boring/miserable to write than, I dunno, a brief or response motion.

I don't know why, but the idea of being in an advisory role really appeals to me. Are these jobs typically more hard to get than let's say big law?
These are big law jobs.

User avatar
Barack O'Drama

Gold
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:21 pm

Post removed...

Post by Barack O'Drama » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:35 am

Post removed...

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


Post Reply Post Anonymous Reply  

Return to “Legal Employment”