Kirkland (Houston) Associate - Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know how fast offers are coming after CBs and what the CB to offer ratio is?

IME from last year they move fast and send their 'no thanks' letters fast too. I got their actual letter faster than I got a bunch of call backs from screeners I did at the same time.

[Anonymous User]

How often does your office work with the China offices?

[Anonymous User]

This question was asked a year or so ago and not really acknowledged, so i'll ask it again. What is the difference in terms of exit options/ lateral options to cities/states outside of Texas between the Houston office of a V10 firm (LW, KE, etc.) and the NYC office of a global V50 (Orrick, KS, Goodwin, etc.)? Assume corporate work.

Does the prestige/ difference in rankings kind of balance out here or would a V10 associate still be the more attractive candidate all else being equal?

[Anonymous User]

You usually go on house where clients are. So better exits in the city you wanna be in if you're already coming from there. Little diff beyond that in terms of law firm hiring

[Right2BearArms]

This question was asked a year or so ago and not really acknowledged, so i'll ask it again. What is the difference in terms of exit options/ lateral options to cities/states outside of Texas between the Houston office of a V10 firm (LW, KE, etc.) and the NYC office of a global V50 (Orrick, KS, Goodwin, etc.)? Assume corporate work.

Does the prestige/ difference in rankings kind of balance out here or would a V10 associate still be the more attractive candidate all else being equal?

V10 vs. V50 for clients makes little difference when it comes to in house hiring. The difference will be what clients know you and where they are located. There are times when a job that is not related to any work you do will come along, but those are going to be far more rare than going directly to a client or a parent/subsidiary of a client.

Truth is though, with email and electronic transmittal/signatures/teleconferencing, clients are all over the place. I work in Houston and in the last week have billed clients in Texas, Colorado, PA/WV and California. We have clients based in Oklahoma, Louisiana, Wyoming the Dakotas and Ohio as well (just ticking off deals/clients I have worked on in the last year or so), so physical location matters less. If you are looking to go in house at a bank or PE fund, those are going to be concentrated in NYC or Chicago or California, but many have offices in other cities, and if you work in energy, a good part of their teams tend to be based in Houston or sometimes Dallas in addition to NYC (at least in my experience).

[Anonymous User]

Are you slowing down out there in Houston since the oil restructuring cycle is toward its end... LynnEnergy PEN and stuff all exited chapter 11. if so, is there stealth lay-off?

[Anonymous User]

Are you slowing down out there in Houston since the oil restructuring cycle is toward its end... LynnEnergy PEN and stuff all exited chapter 11. if so, is there stealth lay-off?

[Anonymous User]

What kinds of grades would be needed to have a good shot at KE Houston (or a comparable firm in Houston) from HYS? Thanks

[Anonymous User]

What kinds of grades would be needed to have a good shot at KE Houston (or a comparable firm in Houston) from HYS? Thanks

What about lower T14, like BVDC?

[Anonymous User]

I have heard the investment funds partner there is a literal psychopath (screams at his wife on the phone, god help the associates). is this true?

[Anonymous User]

I work in a different office so all my interaction with him is on the phone or over email and I don't have insight into how he treats his wife, but all my experience with the sole funds partner in the Houston office has been completely positive.

[Anonymous User]

Any info on the office now that a few years have passed since the topic was started? Is this a good place to start a legal career? If you can't hang will you be canned in less than a year? Or is there a sufficient amount of training and mentoring?

[Anonymous User]

Really depends on which practice area you want and whether you want to work on the best work/get the best training, or have a less intense experience the first few years. The office is very stable at this point with around 180 attorneys once the first years start in September, and there is pretty much no doubt that K&E Houston is the place to work if you want to do M&A in Texas. Mergermarket released its 1st half stats on Friday and Kirkland did more deals than the next two firms combined (V&E and Jones Day). The quality of work will be higher in that practice area and anyone that says otherwise is either clueless or trying to attract law students to a competitor. Beware posters that put up the Texas Lawbook Deal tracker tables as someone did recently, the publication is owned by a former VE partner and it was clearly posted by a VE troll. Capital markets is getting stronger and stronger, and with the addition of Sean Wheeler, the managing partner of Latham, it is likely to be the best cap m platform within a very short period. Debt finance, fund formation and litigation also getting very strong. At this point the exit opportunities are good. In addition to in-house opportunities if you are an associate you get up to 3 or 4 recruiter calls a day from the other top firms in town. Those firms know that because of deal flow the training at K&E is simply better as a junior. As a result there are some pretty healthy signing bonuses being floated by other firms. Partners don’t yell at attorneys and it is a young cool PE like culture, with a work hard, play hard mentality.

So overall a good place, but all of this comes with one very large caveat. The standards expected are a lot higher than the other shops in town. It doesn’t mean higher hours, our hours are around the same or lower than V&E and Latham, but it does mean that you are expected to be on your A game every day and be someone that wants to be working for the top firm. It is not unusual for a senior associate or Non-share partner to be negotiating directly with relatively senior partners at the Texas firms similar to the way Wachtell associates operate in NYC. The office won’t fire you for not meeting those standards, but if you are not really into it, you will not fit in with the folks around you who all seem to genuinely want that early responsibility and ability to go after it. In terms of attrition, contrary to the negative recruiting other firms are putting out there, very few people leave (have only been 10 or so departures from 140 over the last 24 months or so),and most seem to love it, but be aware that it is an intense place!

[Anonymous User]

Really depends on which practice area you want and whether you want to work on the best work/get the best training, or have a less intense experience the first few years. The office is very stable at this point with around 180 attorneys once the first years start in September, and there is pretty much no doubt that K&E Houston is the place to work if you want to do M&A in Texas. Mergermarket released its 1st half stats on Friday and Kirkland did more deals than the next two firms combined (V&E and Jones Day). The quality of work will be higher in that practice area and anyone that says otherwise is either clueless or trying to attract law students to a competitor. Beware posters that put up the Texas Lawbook Deal tracker tables as someone did recently, the publication is owned by a former VE partner and it was clearly posted by a VE troll. Capital markets is getting stronger and stronger, and with the addition of Sean Wheeler, the managing partner of Latham, it is likely to be the best cap m platform within a very short period. Debt finance, fund formation and litigation also getting very strong. At this point the exit opportunities are good. In addition to in-house opportunities if you are an associate you get up to 3 or 4 recruiter calls a day from the other top firms in town. Those firms know that because of deal flow the training at K&E is simply better as a junior. As a result there are some pretty healthy signing bonuses being floated by other firms. Partners don’t yell at attorneys and it is a young cool PE like culture, with a work hard, play hard mentality.

So overall a good place, but all of this comes with one very large caveat. The standards expected are a lot higher than the other shops in town. It doesn’t mean higher hours, our hours are around the same or lower than V&E and Latham, but it does mean that you are expected to be on your A game every day and be someone that wants to be working for the top firm. It is not unusual for a senior associate or Non-share partner to be negotiating directly with relatively senior partners at the Texas firms similar to the way Wachtell associates operate in NYC. The office won’t fire you for not meeting those standards, but if you are not really into it, you will not fit in with the folks around you who all seem to genuinely want that early responsibility and ability to go after it. In terms of attrition, contrary to the negative recruiting other firms are putting out there, very few people leave (have only been 10 or so departures from 140 over the last 24 months or so),and most seem to love it, but be aware that it is an intense place!

Any idea what the strategic plan is for the new Dallas office? Do you know if any Houston people are moving up to Dallas?

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, management was pretty open about Dallas and actually sent emails to everyone in Houston long before it was announced. They noted the strategic rationale behind it was to get access to the lawyers in Dallas as they wanted more resources to keep our hours at a reasonable level. Basically we have had so much work that they need more attorneys and have already hired most of the folks they think are good in the Houston market. They also want to chase some of the Dallas mid-market PE work. We already have several deals that are staffed across the two offices with a partner in one city and junior partner or associates in the other. Seems to be working well so far. As far as Houston relocations they said they are open to it, but don’t think anyone has volunteered yet.

[Anonymous User]

What is Kirkland's approach to stubs that fail the bar exam the first time? Any anecdotes?

[Anonymous User]

Really depends on which practice area you want and whether you want to work on the best work/get the best training, or have a less intense experience the first few years. The office is very stable at this point with around 180 attorneys once the first years start in September, and there is pretty much no doubt that K&E Houston is the place to work if you want to do M&A in Texas. Mergermarket released its 1st half stats on Friday and Kirkland did more deals than the next two firms combined (V&E and Jones Day). The quality of work will be higher in that practice area and anyone that says otherwise is either clueless or trying to attract law students to a competitor. Beware posters that put up the Texas Lawbook Deal tracker tables as someone did recently, the publication is owned by a former VE partner and it was clearly posted by a VE troll. Capital markets is getting stronger and stronger, and with the addition of Sean Wheeler, the managing partner of Latham, it is likely to be the best cap m platform within a very short period. Debt finance, fund formation and litigation also getting very strong. At this point the exit opportunities are good. In addition to in-house opportunities if you are an associate you get up to 3 or 4 recruiter calls a day from the other top firms in town. Those firms know that because of deal flow the training at K&E is simply better as a junior. As a result there are some pretty healthy signing bonuses being floated by other firms. Partners don’t yell at attorneys and it is a young cool PE like culture, with a work hard, play hard mentality.

So overall a good place, but all of this comes with one very large caveat. The standards expected are a lot higher than the other shops in town. It doesn’t mean higher hours, our hours are around the same or lower than V&E and Latham, but it does mean that you are expected to be on your A game every day and be someone that wants to be working for the top firm. It is not unusual for a senior associate or Non-share partner to be negotiating directly with relatively senior partners at the Texas firms similar to the way Wachtell associates operate in NYC. The office won’t fire you for not meeting those standards, but if you are not really into it, you will not fit in with the folks around you who all seem to genuinely want that early responsibility and ability to go after it. In terms of attrition, contrary to the negative recruiting other firms are putting out there, very few people leave (have only been 10 or so departures from 140 over the last 24 months or so),and most seem to love it, but be aware that it is an intense place!

I'm a third-year corporate associate at a lesser biglaw firm (think Locke Lord/T&K/H&B/NRF). All the above is true (certainly the part about K&E's dominance), but wanted to shed a little more light on the question of whether K&E is the right "fit" for a law student/lateral. A lot of people are naturally attracted to the most prestigious/hardest hitting firms (nothing wrong with that), and there is no disputing that K&E is the big boy in town now. But I know of at least half a dozen cautionary tales from friends who work(ed) in K&E corporate, who quit because it wasn't for them. A lot of it stems around a combination of (1) not having the "right" personality (being aggressive, "hard-core", ultra go-getter, "work hard play hard" yadda yadda) and (2) being stuck in a group at K&E with people who are above average in terms of K&E-ness (i.e. the foregoing attributes).

I am very happy where I am and have no desire to lateral to K&E, notwithstanding the fact that my deal flow and experience may not be on par with some K&E associates. I am also cognizant of the fact that, despite billing 2000-2300 my bonus will likely be half of the K&E bonus. I happen to dislike frat/bros/sorority types intensely, being a nerd who just wants to get paid a lot of money with minimal fuss (and I avoided litigation specifically to get away from "real" lawyers, so I certainly don't want to be screamed at over stray commas as opposed to shitty research). Looking through the K&E Houston corporate roster, several of the names I recognize from law school had gunner reputations or were basically unpleasant or hardcore. But also some good people as well (by good I mean the more beta/soft/kind types), but I also note that at least three of them have left K&E in the last year. (This is 100% anecdotal so take it for what you will. I just know with near certainty K&E is not for me, and I am willing to sacrifice $ and superior experience for a more comfortable environment.)

[Anonymous User]

4th year at VE/B.B./Latham. Agree on the dominance point. Two of our better known senior partners have lost it on junior partners in the last 6 months because they read about K&E signing up a deal for one of their clients on a legal website. The market share they have on M&A is crazy.

[legalpotato]

Thoughts on the Kirkland Houston office's ability to weather a recession? Especially given (a) its relatively recent entry into the TX market, and (b) its high share partner / associate ratio?

[Anonymous User]

LOL. The managing partner of B.B. is quoted in an article somewhere from 2014 where he said that newly opened national firms (ie K&E) will have to shutter their doors during a downturn in commodities. Bet he wishes he could have that one back. Did you see what their restructuring team did the last few years? I think K&E will be just fine during a recession.

[legalpotato]

LOL. The managing partner of B.B. is quoted in an article somewhere from 2014 where he said that newly opened national firms (ie K&E) will have to shutter their doors during a downturn in commodities. Bet he wishes he could have that one back. Did you see what their restructuring team did the last few years? I think K&E will be just fine during a recession.

Thanks. Wasn't asking as a criticism/troll--I was asking out of genuine curiosity. I am aware that KE opened up during what was a downturn for the Houston market in 2014 due to falling gas prices. I was just curious on thoughts on how KE Houston might do in another global recession, and what the chances of getting Latham'd are over there in such an event.

[Anonymous User]

No idea on the chances of that, but just saying they seem pretty well hedged.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight on how this firm is for LGBT associates? I have had several interactions (coffee, dinner, etc.) with the firm and, seeing as I am only "out" to close friends and family, I didn't want to ask. If it helps, I am a pretty low key dude and most people probably wouldn't know unless I told them. It's one of my top two firms, so any insight would be extremely valuable. Thanks!

[Ultramar vistas]

Any insight on how this firm is for LGBT associates? I have had several interactions (coffee, dinner, etc.) with the firm and, seeing as I am only "out" to close friends and family, I didn't want to ask. If it helps, I am a pretty low key dude and most people probably wouldn't know unless I told them. It's one of my top two firms, so any insight would be extremely valuable. Thanks!

The office, despite being in a more conservative state, is as liberal if not more so than any given NY biglaw office. There are many lgbt lawyers, and no issues there. Houston as a whole is extremely blue, and the corporate legal market is not tolerant of intolerance.

[Anonymous User]

What is the time table for offers after callbacks for 3L's?