Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

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Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:47 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:48 pm

It's a business. Unless this is some small firm they'll understand.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:51 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:52 pm

I went through something recently for lateral interviews and no, I don't think you're in the wrong here.

From a personal interest standpoint, which should be the thing that really matters (the firm will show no loyalty to you down the road), definitely take your time deciding.

From a morality / "good person" standpoint, I don't think you're in the wrong either. If they had offered you the next day after you said that, maybe that's different. But it looks like they took their time deciding and didn't show you the same enthusiasm you showed them. So don't feel bad about it from that angle either.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:52 pm

They may not even remember you saying it was your top choice. I wouldn't bring it up.

SLS_AMG

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby SLS_AMG » Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:17 pm

First, the anon abuse here is absurd.

Second, I actually think this is one of the situations when you do need to respect the firm a bit more. There's generally no problem waiting/declining regardless of rapport, but telling a firm you'll accept if offered then taking another offer is very poor form IMO. I'm sure the promise had some impact and I think reneging on it is unprofessional.

Just my .02.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby estefanchanning » Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:30 pm

SLS_AMG wrote:First, the anon abuse here is absurd.

Second, I actually think this is one of the situations when you do need to respect the firm a bit more. There's generally no problem waiting/declining regardless of rapport, but telling a firm you'll accept if offered then taking another offer is very poor form IMO. I'm sure the promise had some impact and I think reneging on it is unprofessional.

Just my .02.


Yeah...I tend to agree. Furthermore, maybe it's just me being "old fashioned", but what happened to integrity? The way I see it, you are entering a profession that stresses honesty and character as its cornerstones. And before you even get your first job, it seems to me that you violated both.

Now don't get me wrong, I understand the tendency to do what you did, especially if you have a limited amount of callbacks and want to secure a job. However, you will always find yourself in similar positions, perhaps on a level where the stakes are much higher, like not disclosing pertinent docs to counsel etc.

Also I'd urge you to think of the other students who may have been in a similar position as you, but avoided saying "you're my top 1, ill accept if offered." I'm sure you're a nice and kind guy, but honestly this is not something I would personally tolerate as potential employer or colleague. It's that kind of early red flag behavior, truthfully, that might result in a no-offer to return next year.

Before everyone harps on me and says this is too mean bla bla, I'm not saying this to make you depressed etc. I'm merely stating my opinion and you can take it or leave it. But ultimatley, if you weren't 100% sure they were your #1 (which obviously they weren't if you're second-guessing), then you should've never said anything.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby jkpolk » Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:41 pm

Risk aversion when holding an acceptable job offer is a little silly - assuming you're deciding between a bunch of market paying law firms in a big market, and you've winnowed your list to the firms you like based on culture/prestige/specialities, each of the firms you're considering is basically the same. Pick the people you've liked best, take a deep breath and accept. You'll never meet everyone, you'll never know the future and you'll never know what you should or shouldn't do in your particular circumstances. So without your promise, I'd laugh at the "full 28 days" thing but I guess it takes all kinds.

But adding the promise, I think this is a good lesson that you'll need to learn for practice: if you freak out under pressure or over promise, you're going to have a bad time. You played from a position of strength making that statement (you appeared confident, assured) but you'll look like an idiot backing out. To think the firm will "just forget", or the lawyers/recruiters didn't about it during the "should we offer" discussion, is naive. This may not hurt you (but it could) and if you keep doing stuff like this once you start working, you're going to have a bad time.

My source is that I work at a big firm and occasionally have done recruiting/have been in the room for offer decisions.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:49 pm

estefanchanning wrote:
SLS_AMG wrote:First, the anon abuse here is absurd.

Second, I actually think this is one of the situations when you do need to respect the firm a bit more. There's generally no problem waiting/declining regardless of rapport, but telling a firm you'll accept if offered then taking another offer is very poor form IMO. I'm sure the promise had some impact and I think reneging on it is unprofessional.

Just my .02.


Yeah...I tend to agree. Furthermore, maybe it's just me being "old fashioned", but what happened to integrity? The way I see it, you are entering a profession that stresses honesty and character as its cornerstones. And before you even get your first job, it seems to me that you violated both.

Now don't get me wrong, I understand the tendency to do what you did, especially if you have a limited amount of callbacks and want to secure a job. However, you will always find yourself in similar positions, perhaps on a level where the stakes are much higher, like not disclosing pertinent docs to counsel etc.

Also I'd urge you to think of the other students who may have been in a similar position as you, but avoided saying "you're my top 1, ill accept if offered." I'm sure you're a nice and kind guy, but honestly this is not something I would personally tolerate as potential employer or colleague. It's that kind of early red flag behavior, truthfully, that might result in a no-offer to return next year.

Before everyone harps on me and says this is too mean bla bla, I'm not saying this to make you depressed etc. I'm merely stating my opinion and you can take it or leave it. But ultimatley, if you weren't 100% sure they were your #1 (which obviously they weren't if you're second-guessing), then you should've never said anything.


A friend of the family is a partner at a big firm in a secondary market, and they actually withdrew an offer for this (although it happened during the downturn). The partner is an alum of the student's law school, very connected with recruiting, and was pissed because without that student, they didn't have a single hire from that school. This is after the partner had made a huge deal about how they should hire there despite it being a non-T-14 school, local schools are great, these kids are committed to working here, blah blah blah. (They offered two students from the school; one had lied about wanting to stay in that market and the other student did this "you're my top choice" thing.)

In other words, the partner went to bat for the student and the student made them look like an asshole. Admittedly, the partner overreacted. But it still sucked for the student, especially given that the student wanted to stay in that small market permanently and the legal world is very small.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby denmarkwahlberg » Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:52 pm

pussy

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:17 pm

estefanchanning wrote:
SLS_AMG wrote:First, the anon abuse here is absurd.

Second, I actually think this is one of the situations when you do need to respect the firm a bit more. There's generally no problem waiting/declining regardless of rapport, but telling a firm you'll accept if offered then taking another offer is very poor form IMO. I'm sure the promise had some impact and I think reneging on it is unprofessional.

Just my .02.


Yeah...I tend to agree. Furthermore, maybe it's just me being "old fashioned", but what happened to integrity? The way I see it, you are entering a profession that stresses honesty and character as its cornerstones. And before you even get your first job, it seems to me that you violated both.

Now don't get me wrong, I understand the tendency to do what you did, especially if you have a limited amount of callbacks and want to secure a job. However, you will always find yourself in similar positions, perhaps on a level where the stakes are much higher, like not disclosing pertinent docs to counsel etc.

Also I'd urge you to think of the other students who may have been in a similar position as you, but avoided saying "you're my top 1, ill accept if offered." I'm sure you're a nice and kind guy, but honestly this is not something I would personally tolerate as potential employer or colleague. It's that kind of early red flag behavior, truthfully, that might result in a no-offer to return next year.

Before everyone harps on me and says this is too mean bla bla, I'm not saying this to make you depressed etc. I'm merely stating my opinion and you can take it or leave it. But ultimatley, if you weren't 100% sure they were your #1 (which obviously they weren't if you're second-guessing), then you should've never said anything.


Integrity is a one-way street. A firm won't blink twice about rescinding your offer. I don't think a person should blink twice about doing something that is best for them.

Anyway, OP, if it's your top choice I think it's a little silly to wait. I didn't immediately accept my offer from my top choice, but the next day I realized there wasn't any reason to wait - it was my top choice after all.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:43 pm

I think it's kinda shitty to other students at your school, though...how much you might care about that is up to you.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:47 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
estefanchanning wrote:
SLS_AMG wrote:First, the anon abuse here is absurd.

Second, I actually think this is one of the situations when you do need to respect the firm a bit more. There's generally no problem waiting/declining regardless of rapport, but telling a firm you'll accept if offered then taking another offer is very poor form IMO. I'm sure the promise had some impact and I think reneging on it is unprofessional.

Just my .02.


Yeah...I tend to agree. Furthermore, maybe it's just me being "old fashioned", but what happened to integrity? The way I see it, you are entering a profession that stresses honesty and character as its cornerstones. And before you even get your first job, it seems to me that you violated both.

Now don't get me wrong, I understand the tendency to do what you did, especially if you have a limited amount of callbacks and want to secure a job. However, you will always find yourself in similar positions, perhaps on a level where the stakes are much higher, like not disclosing pertinent docs to counsel etc.

Also I'd urge you to think of the other students who may have been in a similar position as you, but avoided saying "you're my top 1, ill accept if offered." I'm sure you're a nice and kind guy, but honestly this is not something I would personally tolerate as potential employer or colleague. It's that kind of early red flag behavior, truthfully, that might result in a no-offer to return next year.

Before everyone harps on me and says this is too mean bla bla, I'm not saying this to make you depressed etc. I'm merely stating my opinion and you can take it or leave it. But ultimatley, if you weren't 100% sure they were your #1 (which obviously they weren't if you're second-guessing), then you should've never said anything.


Integrity is a one-way street. A firm won't blink twice about rescinding your offer. I don't think a person should blink twice about doing something that is best for them.

Anyway, OP, if it's your top choice I think it's a little silly to wait. I didn't immediately accept my offer from my top choice, but the next day I realized there wasn't any reason to wait - it was my top choice after all.


I agree it is a one-way street, but that is the definition of integrity. Doing the right thing when no one is looking. Whether a firm will blink twice when it backstabs you is on them and their reputation. But it has no bearing on your own integrity.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby El Pollito » Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:49 pm

What are you holding out for?

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:58 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:17 pm

Yeah don't make promises you can't keep. I doubt it would cause problems but I wouldn't want to work with you if I knew about this.

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El Pollito

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby El Pollito » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:18 pm

You told them you would skip OCI? They're not going to forget that.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:25 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby Fed_Atty » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:25 pm

If you don't accept - you lied. That's it. It won't stop you from getting admitted to the bar or really be that big of a deal. People lie all the time. But, you seem to be seeking approval for your course of action. Presumably you told the firm that you would accept to strengthen your chances of getting an offer. Likely it had little to no effect - but you never know.

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Re: Told Firm It's My "Top Choice"/Would Accept & Offered

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:28 pm

This is the kind of thing hiring partners remember. One almost universal trait among partners is a really good memory. Odds are the hiring partner will be the same person next summer and he/she will have an important role in the summer program.

I saw this kind of thing play out from a recruiting perspective a few too many times. Bottom line, I wouldn't want to be at that firm next summer if I've already given the hiring partner a good reason to believe that I am full of shit.



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